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Doomhammer
11-09-2005, 05:25 PM
ok so has anyone ever noticed in the frozen throne how Arthas tells Kael that he stole Jaina and Kael says Arthas took everything he loved so dose this mean Kael and Jaina had a relationship?

FreeLancer
11-09-2005, 08:47 PM
I, noticed it. Although, isn't it that Kael says Arthas stole Jaina. Hmm, don't remember...*installing*. Maybe not. Arthas did wipe out Qael'thalas.

Kael was one of the lead Archmages of the Kirin Tor, whereas Jaina was just the assistant of Antonidas (even if she was a powerful and accomplished assistant). They probably at least knew each other. I wouldn't be surprise if Arthas mistook the relationship between Kael and Jaina. However, I don't see anywhere where a relationship could have existed between Kael and Jaina unless it was after their initial relationship and before Warcraft III.

I don't know. Will have to do some research...

Kenzuki
11-09-2005, 10:14 PM
"Why Kael, are you still upset I stole Jaina away from you?" - Arthas

"You've taken every thing I ever cared about Arthas." - Kael

Sissy elf was no match for the power of the Dark Side of the....Light?

UndeadScottsman
11-09-2005, 10:54 PM
I, noticed it. Although, isn't it that Kael says Arthas stole Jaina. Hmm, don't remember...*installing*. Maybe not. Arthas did wipe out Qael'thalas.

Kael was one of the lead Archmages of the Kirin Tor, whereas Jaina was just the assistant of Antonidas (even if she was a powerful and accomplished assistant). They probably at least knew each other. I wouldn't be surprise if Arthas mistook the relationship between Kael and Jaina. However, I don't see anywhere where a relationship could have existed between Kael and Jaina unless it was after their initial relationship and before Warcraft III.

I don't know. Will have to do some research...

IIRC, it mentions that Jaina is quite possibly the most powerful mage the Kirin Tor have seen in a long time.. Probably excluding the guardians, of course. :D

Kenzuki
11-09-2005, 11:07 PM
IIRC, it mentions that Jaina is quite possibly the most powerful mage the Kirin Tor have seen in a long time.. Probably excluding the guardians, of course. :D

There is no probably to it, Medivh and Aegwynn make Jaina look like a fool. Aegwynn ripped apart Doomguarde with hand movements.....Medivh made an orc explode into flames by looking at him....

Ravenclaw2099
11-10-2005, 03:46 AM
Kael and Jaina sitting in a tree...bah, you all know how that stupid kiddie poem goes. Judging from the way Arthas mocked Kael, chances are the Elf Prince and Jaina were in a relationship. This also clearly indicates that Kael is just as determined as Illidan to exact revenge on Arthas (after losing his girlfriend and homeland to that traitor).

As for Jaina's power, I do not have any idea how far it reaches, but it defeinitely is NOWHERE near that of Agwynn or Medivh. Hell, Even Deathwing had a little respect for Medivh's power, and he could crush Jaina like a..tiny human. :P

Ersinus
11-10-2005, 08:13 AM
For her age she is a powerful mage. And what she did in the 3rd war and the period that followed it is the reason why Alliance exist today...

Vicious
11-10-2005, 09:25 AM
I´m pretty sure Kael said another sentence to Arthas.

Cantus
11-10-2005, 03:50 PM
It is true the Kael and Jaina dated during their Kirin'tor years. Then she met Arthas (all grown up) and fell in love with him. I'm pretty sure that was in-game info from TFT or WoW...but for lack of better examples I do know they did have a relationship.

My question is, what's the relationship between Jaina and Thrall that proved more powerful than a daughter's loyalty to her family?

Kenzuki
11-10-2005, 04:25 PM
It is true the Kael and Jaina dated during their Kirin'tor years. Then she met Arthas (all grown up) and fell in love with him. I'm pretty sure that was in-game info from TFT or WoW...but for lack of better examples I do know they did have a relationship.

My question is, what's the relationship between Jaina and Thrall that proved more powerful than a daughter's loyalty to her family?

I think Thrall sees Jaina in the same way he saw his human sister, Teretha. Besides, if the Daughter of Admiral Proudmoore started going with the Orcish Warchief, I smell reason enough for the Fourth War to start.

Also Deathwing said he would not willing face "The Mad One" in battle, that implies more than just respect, that implies....fear.

Ravenclaw2099
11-11-2005, 12:29 AM
Deathwing afraid? It seems reasonable seeing as what Medivh truly was, but I find it ironic that the same creature who challenged the Old Gods (who would pound Sargeras into nothingness) would fear the sorcerer.

Kenzuki
11-11-2005, 12:44 AM
Deathwing afraid? It seems reasonable seeing as what Medivh truly was, but I find it ironic that the same creature who challenged the Old Gods (who would pound Sargeras into nothingness) would fear the sorcerer.

Sargeras could kill an Old God in a single one on one fight, we hear how a titan beat an Old God in Sillithus, he didn't kill him, but he won. Now Sargeras was the mightiest of ALL Titan Warriors, so I think he could take on one on one, not Three together though.

And Deathwing challenged them out of madness more than anything. By the time of Medivh he melled out just a little cause he couldn't get his "precious.".

Vicious
11-11-2005, 07:54 AM
Sargeras could kill an Old God in a single one on one fight, we hear how a titan beat an Old God in Sillithus, he didn't kill him, but he won. Now Sargeras was the mightiest of ALL Titan Warriors, so I think he could take on one on one, not Three together though.


Yeah, that´s the thing, they most likely wouldn´t go fair on him, since they got their asses kicked by the Pantheon, i doubt they would go solo on the most powerful Titan out there, he even got stronger when he became a Dark Titan, he´s simply the shit.

Warlock
11-11-2005, 05:42 PM
I have the background behind this written down somewhere but I don't recall where at the moment.

Suffice to say, yes, Kael'Thas and Jaina used to date while she was in Dalaran. Arthas basically stole her from him.

Kenzuki
11-11-2005, 11:18 PM
Funny, she didn't seem to mind :P

Why date the Heir to Quel'Thalas, when you could get the guy who's going to be running Lordaeron :P

I've often wondering what would happen if Arthas saw Jaina again. Me and warlock were talking and we think maybe it will be like the Kerrigan/Raynor thing.

Ravenclaw2099
11-12-2005, 01:05 AM
Possibly, but the thing with Kerrigan is that she still has some of her humanity intact. Besides, the zerg are somewhat mindless with the excpetion of the Cerebrates and the Overmind, but even they have basic "animal" instincts.

I dunno if that's true for Arthas though. I mean he pretty much lost his soul when carrying Frostmourne, and even if he did have some humanity left at that point, his fusion with an intelligent and insidious being like Ner'zhul would have shattered anything left of the good Arthas. If anything, Jaina could end up back with Kael somehow, provided he hasn't also gone mad like Illidan. At least that's how I see it anyway.

WootZoot
11-12-2005, 02:57 AM
Kael, Arthas, Thrall. it seems Jaina has a thing for men with power.

Kenzuki
11-12-2005, 06:56 AM
Kael, Arthas, Thrall. it seems Jaina has a thing for men with power.

Jaina is not involved with Thrall that way, the lore even says those are rumors that aren't true.

And according to Metzen, The New Lich king has ARTHAS' personality, and the memories, wisdom, knowledge, and evil of Ner'zhul. So to me that means that Arthas is the dominant personality, meaning he COULD potentially, care for Jaina. He's not the souless warrior he was before, he has a soul now, a new one, but still. Who knows ^_^

Ravenclaw2099
11-12-2005, 07:26 AM
Bah, I would have preffered if he had the personality of Ner'zhul. Don't get me wrong, Arthas is a good villain, but I just think Ner'zhul is way more badass than Arthas could ever be.

Kenzuki
11-12-2005, 09:40 AM
Bah, I would have preffered if he had the personality of Ner'zhul. Don't get me wrong, Arthas is a good villain, but I just think Ner'zhul is way more badass than Arthas could ever be.

This is where I disagree :P

Warlock
11-12-2005, 11:16 AM
This is where I disagree :P

Ditto. Ner'zhul was cool until they decided to "rewrite" his personality into some caring compassionate guy who just wanted to escape the Legion. You read the mission briefings in War2:BTDP and the guy is a power-hungry despot willing to crush anything in his way to glory. THAT is the Ner'zhul I like :)

Kenzuki
11-12-2005, 11:42 AM
Ditto. Ner'zhul was cool until they decided to "rewrite" his personality into some caring compassionate guy who just wanted to escape the Legion. You read the mission briefings in War2:BTDP and the guy is a power-hungry despot willing to crush anything in his way to glory. THAT is the Ner'zhul I like :)

Yeah, but Gul'dan, ah now he pwns Ner'zhul so much. He had the balls to try and claim Sargeras' powers for his own! Hehe.

Cantus
11-12-2005, 04:57 PM
I can't stand Arthas' personality though, at least not when he was himself. Ner'zhul's personality (via Frostmourne) made him much darker and less aristocratic. While I'm not a great fan of the darker aspect, losing the aristocratic air he had was a big plus.

This is also why I enjoyed Kel'thuzad and Anub'arak as heroes. Their personalities weren't ruled by an aristocratic air, but the logic and knowledge they held. They didn't act like their positions within the Scourge's ranks made them better, only that they were priveledged to have their freedom and use it wisely.

Vicious
11-12-2005, 07:34 PM
Jaina is not involved with Thrall that way, the lore even says those are rumors that aren't true.

And according to Metzen, The New Lich king has ARTHAS' personality, and the memories, wisdom, knowledge, and evil of Ner'zhul. So to me that means that Arthas is the dominant personality, meaning he COULD potentially, care for Jaina. He's not the souless warrior he was before, he has a soul now, a new one, but still. Who knows ^_^

Well, it seems that Nerzhul has planned this all along, so i think it´s supossed that Lich king should have Arthas´ memories but that doesn´t mean that he´s not in control of the situation, it would be dumb if he wasn´t.

Kenzuki
11-12-2005, 09:52 PM
Well, it seems that Nerzhul has planned this all along, so i think it´s supossed that Lich king should have Arthas´ memories but that doesn´t mean that he´s not in control of the situation, it would be dumb if he wasn´t.

He has the memories of BOTH beings, but the personality of Arthas. Ever notice why it never calls the New Lich King, Ner'zhul, it's always Arthas? All through the Alliance and Horde Compendium it says that "Arthas crowned himself the New Lich King" or "Arthas was anointed the New Lich King." Ner'zhul is there, but it's Arthas with more power.

Also Ner'zhul's personality didn't make Arthas evil, Arthas' soul was in Frostmourne, meaning he was controlling his body FROM the sword. When you don't have a soul you don't feel feelings, and as such are different. Now that Arthas has a soul, albeit it's a different one created from Ner'zhul and Arthas, who knows what he thinks.

Xaran Alamas
11-17-2005, 03:38 PM
Arthas and Ner'zhul have become a perfect fusion of one being - Arthas' personality and body with Ner'zhul's wison, experience, power and EVIL.
I can tell ya that Arthas is very much alive (he never died) - so he is essentially a healthy human with godlike powers of undeath and telepathy. He IS the new Lich King.

Aren't you glad I have a direct line to Metzen? :vile:

Oh and I've now decided to make it my personal crusade to ensure the accuracy of WC lore so I will settle disputes and contact Metzen when required. Just thought I'd let this lore community know ;)