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  #151  
Old 05-26-2017, 11:54 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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But in that attempt at viral marketing, Project Blackstone, Dr. Rothfuss (I believe) said that Terran encryption is backwards and easy to crack. Plus to even access the adjutant they had to hack into it so that alone puts questions about the validity of things stored on it. I remain by the idea that audio can be easily spoofed and that Mengsk's propaganda machine could have easily discredited it. But anyhow that is a minor thing lets not get stuck on that.

What do you guys think about the point that the main issue with SC2 villains is that we never played from their perspective like in previous RTS games?
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  #152  
Old 05-26-2017, 01:20 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
But in that attempt at viral marketing, Project Blackstone, Dr. Rothfuss (I believe) said that Terran encryption is backwards and easy to crack. Plus to even access the adjutant they had to hack into it so that alone puts questions about the validity of things stored on it. I remain by the idea that audio can be easily spoofed and that Mengsk's propaganda machine could have easily discredited it. But anyhow that is a minor thing lets not get stuck on that.
The adjudant ain't Terran-tech though. Judging from its presence on the Alexander and Umoja, It's probably UPL technology.

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What do you guys think about the point that the main issue with SC2 villains is that we never played from their perspective like in previous RTS games?
Hrm, it would have helped for sure, but I'm not sure it's necessary. During Warcraft III, we never really play from the perspective of the Legion. Sure, we played the scourge, and the scourge was kinda semi-doing their bidding, but Raynor was also kinda semi-doing the bidding of Amon.

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I have not a doubt that making SC2 try so hard to be a soap opera was key in its disappointment. Blizzard was never really good at character driven stories as opposed to making interesting settings for you to explore.
Honestly, I don't think the soap-y aspect of Starcraft II is actually that bad. The primary difference between WoW and Starcraft II's usage of characters actually fits with how the game is structured. The story's focus characters are also the game's main characters, and you spend a ton of time interacting with other characters in an environment that's specifically been set up for that purpose.[1]

I actually rather like Kerrigan's character arc in Heart of the Swarm. I like Raynor's interactions with his rebel buddies (even if Tychus is kinda redundant to the story of WoL).

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The point about villlains is important here. Using WoW, I would say that a key problem in its Lore is how it transformed into what can be called the antics of a bunch of dysfunctional superheroes. Despite this, the faction leaders aren't well done enough as characters to have so much attention dumped on them. Can you tell me that Anduin has the pull of Arthas?
I don't think the dysfunctional superheroes idea applies nearly as much to starcraft II as to WoW.
Firstly, the power disparity between main characters and the rest of the universe is not even close to being as close to and inexplicable as it is in WoW. Raynor can't single-handedly wipe out a dozen marines without breaking a sweat story-wise, not like Garrosh (who has spent half his life sick in bed, grew up malnourished, has no special training, no extensive practical experience, and goes into battle near-naked) being able to plow through small armies of experienced veterans by mere virtue of him being a main character and them being nameless NPCs
Secondly, they're not the ones winning the war. In WoL and LotV, the main characters sit mostly on their ships. You actually get to use them on the battlefield only fairly rarely. Instead, wars are won through the blood, sweat and sacrifice of the masses, something which the story repeatedly acknowledges. [2]

I can also tell you that I enjoyed Abathur, Gabriel Tosh and Alarak a lot more than Amon.



[1] Though the main Leviathan screen utterly shatters my suspension of disbelief every single time I see it. Seriously, that's terrible.
[2] Except in that one stupid cinematic with Raynor on Valerian's ship. That has to be the lowpoint in Starcraft II's storytelling for me.
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  #153  
Old 05-27-2017, 11:27 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is online now

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The gate during Mission VI is pretty heavily guarded, so the zerg wouldn't just be able to run in and take over the gate. Plenty of time to shut it down.
But I'm fairly certain in the Protoss campaign they said they're shutting it down. Plus it's just an unnecessary risk if they lose it. It wasn't particularly secure.

And the sequence of events is just messy.

And yeah, SC2 has lame villains. The fact that we never see their perspective, and the fact that the game just cycles mindlessly between generic despicable Tal'darim, generic despicable Dominion forces/Moebius Foundation, generic despicable rogue Zerg broods/feral zerg/zerg swarm.

Rather than in previous games where there was a lot of development for who you were fighting and why and what they specifically wanted. The colour palette was used to signify a faction, whereas in SC2 everything's just kind of the same colour and you have good guys and bad guys.

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Honestly, I don't think the soap-y aspect of Starcraft II is actually that bad. The primary difference between WoW and Starcraft II's usage of characters actually fits with how the game is structured. The story's focus characters are also the game's main characters, and you spend a ton of time interacting with other characters in an environment that's specifically been set up for that purpose.[1]

I actually rather like Kerrigan's character arc in Heart of the Swarm. I like Raynor's interactions with his rebel buddies (even if Tychus is kinda redundant to the story of WoL).
I dunno how, but I find WoL and HotS both incredibly straight-forward and predictable, and they pander to their audience. While also being massively inconsistent and chaotic and random.
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  #154  
Old 05-27-2017, 04:44 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline
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I dunno how, but I find WoL and HotS both incredibly straight-forward and predictable, and they pander to their audience. While also being massively inconsistent and chaotic and random.
you do? wow, we're shocked.
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  #155  
Old 05-27-2017, 06:38 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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The colour palette was used to signify a faction, whereas in SC2 everything's just kind of the same colour and you have good guys and bad guys.
To be fair, even in the original Starcraft, the use of colours as factions was pretty underwhelming. Sure, the manual gave you a nice listing of the faction names and which colours belonged to them, but that ends up being really poorly integrated into the actual campaign gameplay.
For the Terrans, only half the colours appear in the actual game, with Nova Squadron, the Umojans and Kel-Moria all missing.
For the Protoss, the color distinctions really don't matter, because for some bizarre reason, they chose to use colours to represent an internal distinction that no longer exists among the protoss.
For the zerg, there is the issue that the same colours get reused even when it doesn't make sense. Not only does Zasz's brood keep appearing after his death, it keeps appearing with new cerebrates.

Warcraft III doesn't do much with it either now that I think about it. Kul Tiras has blue units, the scourge don't have distinctins, the night elves distinctions are never explained, and the orcs don't really seem to use the colour system at all.

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But I'm fairly certain in the Protoss campaign they said they're shutting it down.
Raynor says they're going to try and destroy it, yes. However, Zeratul says even earlier that it's Aiur's 'last functioning warp gate'.

Either statement must already be a lie. So, let's look at which is more likely. Let's assume that there are two gates. The first gate must not have always connected to Shakuras. That means that the warp gates can switch destinations quite easily. Either you could secure the gate by just switching addresses or turning it off, in which case there's no need to blow up the original gate, or even a gate connected to a different location can't considered secure, in which case the 'other' gate shouldn't be left intact either. If the former, they would still have the original gate. If the latter, they wouldn't have a second gate.

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I dunno how, but I find WoL and HotS both incredibly straight-forward and predictable, and they pander to their audience. While also being massively inconsistent and chaotic and random.
Oh hell yeah, they're predictable. Just because I know what all the pit stops are does not mean that the journey is meaningless though.

I'd agree that WoL is "massively inconsistent and chaotic and random". HotS seems way more sanely structured in its plot though.
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  #156  
Old Today, 01:23 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Can I just say, as someone who got into SC2's Multiplayer just three months ago, I do not understand why people enjoy cheesy plays. I see people praise such plays all the time, but they just make me salty af. It's especially bad when I play PVP, as it seems that whenever a Protoss player sees another, their reaction is to either cannon rush the fuck out of them, or settle down for long macro games involving both sides going Skytoss and the one with better macro winning. The latter is still quite fun, but I do not enjoy the former. It's not that bad when it's less common, but I find that PVP more often than not will have one player attempting to cheese. Hell, if it was rarer, I would actually enjoy the games more, because it would be innovative and unconventional. The worst part is when you get cheesed in two or three games in a row, as even winning in that situation isnt much fun(the other player is quite likely to just surrender when their tactics fail).
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