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  #51  
Old 07-04-2014, 07:52 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Okay nobody is worse than Kaplan when it comes to 'screw the lore'. Nobody. That guy ENJOYED not placating to the lore and his bit on the WoW anniversary thing was basically 'fuck WC3's story'.

That guy did not care one bit.

I dunno what Chilton's stance is.

I'm really sorry to hear this. Pardo was game director on WC3, TFT, WoW and Burning Crusade, I don't know what his contributions were specifically but in interviews and stuff he always brought a lot of passion to the project. I sort of associate him with Metzen and Samwise as being the old-school core Blizzard so this is kind of a shame.
Pardo certainly did some great things. But has hasn't in a long long time.
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  #52  
Old 07-04-2014, 09:57 AM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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If Pardo was the Titan guy, and if he was responsible for the mess that is currently WoD, then, yeah, he was walked out.

A mid-level or higher manager will *always* choose the amicable exit option over letting things get to the point of being outright fired - a termination just looks bad on the resume. And it's never a layoff at that level.

My guess is they told him they were taking his toys away (rank, title, major development responsibility), and were going to shelve him for six months as a project lead on something nobody cares about where he couldn't do any damage.

Or, he takes the blue pill - gets that six months salary up-front, walks out on his own, doesn't say anything negative, everyone makes nice, and he gets the rest of the year off to make his next move.

On the Ghostcralwer topic - Pardo might actually be the reason he left. If this is the case, losing GC and seeing the aftermath of WoD's development quagmire might have been the tipping point.

I don't think Blizz fired GC, because GC was already hired at Riot when he left - he CLEARLY had his own exit strategy, and his move was a step up.

Also, GC is an awesome guy, and I think it sucks Blizz let him get away.
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  #53  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:08 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Isn't Pardo partially responsible Hearthstone?
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  #54  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:11 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
Jeffrey Kaplan. He was game director on TBC and WOTLK. I misspoke when I said Rob Pardo was game director on TBC. I dunno why I said that.
So why is Kaplan the "Fuck the lore guy" and not Prado? Also why do people think Ghostcrawler screwed up WoW while Kosak gets promoted? I mean Kosak is a great quest designer, but the quests themselves...
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  #55  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:58 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I hope he makes a new company with a new awesome IP, in line with ArenaNet (Guild Wars) and Runic Games (Torchlight).
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  #56  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:23 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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I doubt he'll make a new company. That hasn't worked out well for most ex Blizz devs with ANet being the exception.
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  #57  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:25 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
I hope he makes a new company with a new awesome IP, in line with ArenaNet (Guild Wars) and Runic Games (Torchlight).
Less Guild Wars, more Torchlight.
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  #58  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:29 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I doubt he'll make a new company. That hasn't worked out well for most ex Blizz devs with ANet being the exception.
How many ex devs are out there?
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  #59  
Old 07-04-2014, 11:51 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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How many ex devs are out there?
Flagship

Arenanet

Ready at Dawn

Red 5 studios

Castaway Entertainment

Hyboreal games

Nethera Studios

Molten Games

Runic Games

Carbine Studio

A lot.
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  #60  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:36 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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So then why make a big deal every time a dev leaves?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #61  
Old 07-04-2014, 12:57 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
So then why make a big deal every time a dev leaves?
Ghostcrawler got a fair amount of buzz, largely because of how interactive with the community he was.

Rob Pardo is interesting in how it seems that he's moved on, his former positions and how long he was with Blizzard. Plus he announced it on the forums.

I bet most people here don't even know that one of the lead people from Diablo 3 is now working on Star Citizen (has since May), so not everyone is made a big deal out of.
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  #62  
Old 07-04-2014, 10:54 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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So why is Kaplan the "Fuck the lore guy" and not Prado?
Because he is? I don't understand the question. Pardo enjoyed and cared about the lore and worked on WC3 and WoW when WoW actually had a plot (Pardo was mostly responsible for the Stormwind area stuff I think). Kaplan thinks it's stupid and has shown that this is attitude in several interviews.

I'm not sure what Pardo was doing that was so bad for WoD. Was it just delays?
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  #63  
Old 07-05-2014, 05:22 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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When has Kaplan said that specifically?
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #64  
Old 07-05-2014, 05:35 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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http://www.shacknews.com/article/578...dev-outlines-9

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But Kaplan would prefer to see WoW quests go in the other direction.

"I actually wish that the number was smaller. I think it's great to limit people in how much pure text they can force on the player. Because honestly... if you ever want a case study, just watch kids play it, and they're just mashing the button. They don't want to read anything."

I'm as guilty of this as anyone else. We're so fortunate and privileged to work in a medium that is not only an art, but a revolutionary interactive form of entertainment. It's unfortunate to see so many games try to be what they're not, including our game at times. Of course we should embrace the concept of story... art, literature, film, song, they've all embraced story as well. But they all tell it in their own unique way.

I feel like we need to deliver our story in a way that is uniquely video game. We need to engage our audience by letting them be the hero or the villain or the victim. [Art, film, literature], they're tools. But we need to engage our players in sort of an inspiring experience, and the sooner we accept that we are not Shakespeare, Scorsese, Tolstoy or the Beatles, the better off we are.
Fuck that loser.
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  #65  
Old 07-05-2014, 05:38 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
When has Kaplan said that specifically?
He's never said it specifically of course, it's just obvious.
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  #66  
Old 07-05-2014, 05:39 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I don't think what he said was that bad.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #67  
Old 07-05-2014, 05:58 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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I don't think what he said was that bad.
It's not that bad, but it clearly shows he just really doesn't care about narrative.
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  #68  
Old 07-05-2014, 06:02 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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It's not that bad, but it clearly shows he just really doesn't care about narrative.
I think he meant, "trying to make gaming more engaging for the players". You can do that without so much quest text. Not sure if it'd work in WoW.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #69  
Old 07-05-2014, 12:50 PM
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I agree with Kaplan's design decision- and that's what that was, a design decision to limit the amount of text in your quest journal. This has the benefit of allowing players to easily find what information they need in the quest log and also forced quest developers to learn how to tell the quest's story without walls of text, "showing, not telling". He didn't hate the lore, he wanted it presented in a better way.
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  #70  
Old 07-05-2014, 01:48 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Fuck that loser.
He's just saying what most of Blizzard probably think.

Considering WoW's story has now devolved into Metzen and Kosak playing with digital action figures and making "Pewpew" sounds.
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  #71  
Old 07-05-2014, 02:02 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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He's just saying what most of Blizzard probably think.

Considering WoW's story has now devolved into Metzen and Kosak playing with digital action figures and making "Pewpew" sounds.
I feel bad for the action figures based on certain races that pretty much stay in the attic for eternity.
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  #72  
Old 07-05-2014, 02:11 PM
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I feel bad for the action figures based on certain races that pretty much stay in the attic for eternity.
Well, would you rather be the ones that end up having limbs ripped off or chewed up by the family dog?
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  #73  
Old 07-05-2014, 02:45 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Well, would you rather be the ones that end up having limbs ripped off or chewed up by the family dog?
Touche.
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  #74  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:22 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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He's just saying what most of Blizzard probably think.

Considering WoW's story has now devolved into Metzen and Kosak playing with digital action figures and making "Pewpew" sounds.
I guess? I think it's kind of had a resurgence now honestly.

Quote:
He didn't hate the lore, he wanted it presented in a better way.
That's not what he's saying, he isn't saying they need to 'show not tell'. he's saying it needs to be simpler and more straight-forward. And shouldn't be the least bit complex, and this isn't the only time he's shown an attitude like this. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy, but I don't agree with his stance on narrative at all. If he was saying 'show don't tell' I'd agree with him, but that's not what he's saying, and REALLY video games as a medium allow A LOT more telling than a lot of other mediums do. Video games are done at the players' pace. So if you don't WANT to read that huge slew of text you can easily choose to just skip it and move on in a way that you CAN'T in a movie or tv show.
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  #75  
Old 07-06-2014, 02:23 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
That's not what he's saying, he isn't saying they need to 'show not tell'. he's saying it needs to be simpler and more straight-forward. And shouldn't be the least bit complex, and this isn't the only time he's shown an attitude like this. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy, but I don't agree with his stance on narrative at all. If he was saying 'show don't tell' I'd agree with him, but that's not what he's saying, and REALLY video games as a medium allow A LOT more telling than a lot of other mediums do. Video games are done at the players' pace. So if you don't WANT to read that huge slew of text you can easily choose to just skip it and move on in a way that you CAN'T in a movie or tv show.
You're conflating the lore with quest text. Quest text isn't necessarily the best place for lore to be presented, at least, not now. When I'm questing, I want to be able to find all the information I need to complete the quest easily, and sometimes that means I don't have the time or patience to scan through lore, even if I enjoy it, to find that information if I need it.
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