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  #5976  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:15 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Last I heard, there were no wildhammer dwarves, draenei or humans sharing their culture in Silvermoon or Farstrider Enclave.
Are you telling me that a couple of NPC draenei and a dwarf would change the high elves culture in a totally different way to the culture of the people who live in quelthalas?

We only saw these NPCs recently in Cata, even if you thought that cultural and physiological changes could occur when living with a pair of NPCs from other races, this has been going on for about 5 years in such a short time that there can be no significant change in their culture and much less in their physiology.
they are ragers and they live as rangers, just like the rangers who live in quelthalas
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  #5977  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:21 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
Are you telling me that a couple of NPC draenei and a dwarf would change the high elves culture in a totally different way to the culture of the people who live in quelthalas?

We only saw these NPCs recently in Cata, even if you thought that cultural and physiological changes could occur when living with a pair of NPCs from other races, this has been going on for about 5 years in such a short time that there can be no significant change in their culture and much less in their physiology.
they are ragers and they live as rangers, just like the rangers who live in quelthalas
I've already said I won't delve into that discussion here. If you want to discuss it, create a thread and I'll gladly go there.
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  #5978  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:33 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I've already said I won't delve into that discussion here. If you want to discuss it, create a thread and I'll gladly go there.
http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...221343&page=11
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  #5979  
Old 07-02-2018, 12:55 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Yeah, the Nightborne had what 10k+ years of Nightwell usage to diverge from their Keldorei kin? So how much would physical divergence would you expect from 10 years of mostly a cultural divergence between blood and high elves?
Unfortunately not much. In Warcraft Fel is a hell of a drug and causes demonic mutation as well as heightening people's worse traits but years ago they retconned the whole sapping from demons thing claiming that the green eyes was because of radiation. Any changes that could be explained through fel aren't going to happen.
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  #5980  
Old 07-02-2018, 01:03 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Does WoW's expansions follow the Star Trek rule? Every odd-numbered expansion is shit? So this shit-list would include Burning Crusade (bikewreck), Cataclysm (carwreck), Warlords of Draenor (trainwreck), and now Battle for Azeroth (possible planecrash?).

Whereas the more lauded expansions would include Wrath of the Lich King, Mists of Pandaria, and Legion.
Pfft.

TBC master race.
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  #5981  
Old 07-02-2018, 01:25 PM
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Pfft.

TBC master race.
It was a lore disaster. TBC is a lot of wide-eyed nostalgia and wonder for the alien landscape and flying mounts. But a trainwreck for lore and story.
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  #5982  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:19 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
It was a lore disaster. TBC is a lot of wide-eyed nostalgia and wonder for the alien landscape and flying mounts. But a trainwreck for lore and story.
Fair enough, I was gonna do an edit to say that the grand story sucked (still pissed about Kael) but I forgot.

That said, it had the best gameplay from all I've experienced. Heroics were challenging without being tedious. Raids were the same, a good middle between the grind and pain of Vanilla without being a brainfart as many were in future expansions. PvP balance was pretty good especially in the later stages of the expansion without making the classes same or simplified. The aesthetics were good and varied, there were even plenty of good stories it is just the main story sucked. And perhaps most importantly it had that organic feel of old WoW, a spirit to the game that made all things a bit more fun and beautiful that the new WoW and its plastic feel just can't.
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  #5983  
Old 07-02-2018, 07:11 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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It seems like the Alliance side of events at Teldrassil is what actually really happens, because when Tyrande confronts Saurfang and asks him "how dare you spill so much innocent blood" Saurfang doesn't even deny that he's done that and his answer to it is "we spill blood so that the Horde will endure".

Which kind of just renders all the effort of making the Horde look clean on their side of events just pointless.

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I disagree.

Even forgetting everything else, this is the first expansion where i've seen the forum masses griping about core gameplay en masse. I don't think a bad story or even a lack of content cannot be overcome but im skeptical when something as fundamental as basic class gameplay has finally caught the ire of the masses. People seem to finally be fucking sick of "pruning" and the overall standard of taking complexity away over and over again and every spec that didn't directly get a rework seems to have suffered. Azerite gear and its associated system is also not inspiring confidence. Add to that the recent outrage at a good chunk of specs being told directly via QnA to "wait for a patch" and we're not off to a good start. I'd posit many such problems are likely outside the scope of even a strong .1 patch.

I've been hating the class design direction for YEARS but this is the first time i seem to be seeing the average user agreeing with me. I don't expect that'll end well for retention.
I've played most classes on beta, mainly from a DPS standpoint. My take away is that there are still pretty good ones, some middle tier ones, and some absolute shit ones that are just not transitioning well past needing their artifact. My one favorite class spec, Shadow Priest, is just a shell of itself from Legion. Despite this though, it was kind of the same way with Legion with some specs just being shit but I will give it that they feel better than they do in BfA and I hope Blizzard cleans it up.

I do get a general feeling that Blizzard is taking what's successful about Legion and just breaking it for the sake of some "change" and I just don't understand that design philosophy. It's not the first time they've done it either, which is why it's so puzzling to me.
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  #5984  
Old 07-02-2018, 07:44 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
It was a lore disaster. TBC is a lot of wide-eyed nostalgia and wonder for the alien landscape and flying mounts. But a trainwreck for lore and story.
It really was the beginning of the end.
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  #5985  
Old 07-02-2018, 07:51 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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It really was the beginning of the end.
That is one long ending.
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  #5986  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:09 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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It is so obvious!!!!! We will also have family drama when we have to kill Bolivar

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  #5987  
Old 07-03-2018, 05:58 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I decided to make a Dark Iron dwarf in Beta just to check if there are any dark iron NPCs roaming the capital cities like other allied races have, and unfortunately didn't find any.

But I found a mole machine (visible only to dark irons) near the Stormwind Embassy and took it to check the Dark Iron starting area (currently in Beta any dark iron you make appears in Stormwind with level 110).

The instance of Shadowforge city was a little underwhelming, as Blizzard restricted the areas you can roam and wasn't very creative with the NPCs. You are confined to the areas around the center forge. You can't even check out the front gate, which is the most visually impressive decoration of the city (the gate is closed so you can't step outside of it). You can go to the Grim Guzzler, but the NPCs there are pretty generic and still praise Ragnaros.

I'd love to be able to see the senate and other places, but unfortunately it is not possible.
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  #5988  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:28 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Of course it wasn't going to be though, if it were that'd give dark irons the biggest allied race capital by far which wouldn't be fair to others.
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  #5989  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:34 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I decided to make a Dark Iron dwarf in Beta just to check if there are any dark iron NPCs roaming the capital cities like other allied races have, and unfortunately didn't find any.

But I found a mole machine (visible only to dark irons) near the Stormwind Embassy and took it to check the Dark Iron starting area (currently in Beta any dark iron you make appears in Stormwind with level 110).

The instance of Shadowforge city was a little underwhelming, as Blizzard restricted the areas you can roam and wasn't very creative with the NPCs. You are confined to the areas around the center forge. You can't even check out the front gate, which is the most visually impressive decoration of the city (the gate is closed so you can't step outside of it). You can go to the Grim Guzzler, but the NPCs there are pretty generic and still praise Ragnaros.

I'd love to be able to see the senate and other places, but unfortunately it is not possible.
There are Shadowforge NPC's in the Dwarven District tavern.

Other than that, yeah, wasn't expecting to have the whole shebang Blackrock Depths. Even getting at least the Grim Guzzler and some other rooms is a pleasant surprise that I didn't think they would actually do, but am fully glad they did.

I'm still holding out some hope that the place is still work in progress, since only the guards have their own unique Dark Iron voice and the rest just talk like Bronzebeard NPC's.

More NPC's patrolling Stormwind like the Void Elves and Lightforged do would be great as well.

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Of course it wasn't going to be though, if it were that'd give dark irons the biggest allied race capital by far which wouldn't be fair to others.
My only complaint is that they still have most of the NPC's from the original Grim Guzzler, including Mistress Nagmara... but no Private Rocknot? Come on, he needs to be there at least.
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  #5990  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:03 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There are Shadowforge NPC's in the Dwarven District tavern.
There's also a craftsman hanging around with the other dwarven blacksmiths.
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  #5991  
Old 07-03-2018, 11:17 AM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Apparently Tandred is alive somehow.

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  #5992  
Old 07-03-2018, 11:41 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Of course it wasn't going to be though, if it were that'd give dark irons the biggest allied race capital by far which wouldn't be fair to others.
I don't see allied races as needing equality in presentation. Both highmountain tauren and nightborne have way better capitals than lightforged. And everyone has a better capital than void elves. And mag'har do not even have a capital. They are living in Orgrimmar.

Since Shadowforge is already in the game, I'd love to see it better used. You'd only need to populate it with NPCs and maybe add some corridors as shortcuts so we don't need to traverse the entirety of the dungeon to reach places like Circle of Law or Senate.

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
There's also a craftsman hanging around with the other dwarven blacksmiths.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There are Shadowforge NPC's in the Dwarven District tavern.
I'll check it out, thanks to you both.

Quote:
Other than that, yeah, wasn't expecting to have the whole shebang Blackrock Depths. Even getting at least the Grim Guzzler and some other rooms is a pleasant surprise that I didn't think they would actually do, but am fully glad they did.

I'm still holding out some hope that the place is still work in progress, since only the guards have their own unique Dark Iron voice and the rest just talk like Bronzebeard NPC's.
I hope it's revisited before the races are available. There's still around two months before that.

Quote:
More NPC's patrolling Stormwind like the Void Elves and Lightforged do would be great as well.
I'd like to see them having a big presence in Ironforge instead. Would fit better than Stormwind.

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Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
Apparently Tandred is alive somehow.
I wanna hear his story, I really do. I hope he has at least some gossip text.
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  #5993  
Old 07-03-2018, 11:46 AM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Apparently Tandred is alive somehow.
Yeah, they made him canon.

It is Derek that died in the Second War and is also to... appear in BfA.
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  #5994  
Old 07-03-2018, 01:04 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Brief lunchtime post. I have been absolutely overjoyed at the post-burning of Teldrassil world quest environments, which appear to me to show a massive successful counterattack and which seems to bridge to the mission table content. It shows the Night Elves as a formidable threat, it does so in game, it gives the Druids back, and it's an incredible seed of optimism that I can't wait to expand on.

.... and the rest of the Night Elf community does NOT appear to be with me on this.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...5517177?page=1
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...5497052?page=1
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...0272175?page=1
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...0132102?page=1

In the EU even, the pessimism is being led by the Russians. The RUSSIANS! Yes, people from that country famous for cripplingly depressing literature are trying to tell Blizzard to cool it with the cripplingly depressing literature. What planet am I on? That's like a Texan telling you that you've got too much freedom with those fries. (That or perhaps it's a sign that a depressing game produces a much different reaction than does a depressing book)

Now true, the discussion suffers from a few defects. Chief among them are that the defense of a more optimistic impression is mostly being led by apologists who still think that patting Night Elf fans on the head and saying "there there, you were never great anyway and you should feel proud to have died so well to the glorious Untotreich - and hey, at least you didn't have to deal with this other calamity buried in the backstory that no player ever had to experience!" is a good way to make people feel better about this. I don't know why the other side insists on defending pre-burning content, but even the mention of the post-burning content is being overshadowed by the scenario that preceded it.

I don't know if it's just not seen as enough or if people haven't picked up on it, but this should be of concern.
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  #5995  
Old 07-03-2018, 01:13 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Brief lunchtime post. I have been absolutely overjoyed at the post-burning of Teldrassil world quest environments, which appear to me to show a massive successful counterattack and which seems to bridge to the mission table content.
Where can I read about it to sate my curiosity?

Quote:
.... and the rest of the Night Elf community does NOT appear to be with me on this.
Most of the posts (thought I read only the first message of each thread), seem to be pissed off by the initial loss of the night elves, not the post-burning quests. Aside from one thread, all the others seem unaware of a comeback.
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  #5996  
Old 07-03-2018, 01:29 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Where can I read about it to sate my curiosity?


Most of the posts (thought I read only the first message of each thread), seem to be pissed off by the initial loss of the night elves, not the post-burning quests. Aside from one thread, all the others seem unaware of a comeback.
Even the one that was explicitly put out there to report the new information, one whose creation I personally encouraged, appears to have been taken over by pessimism though. Also, each of these threads have brought up the new information at least once. In a specific case, one of the Russians even brings it up, but appears to swing right back into pessimism.

As for sources, the pictures in the "Night Elves are far from dead" thread tell the story. I have a bit more description on what some of the people who captured them said out in the Halls, but I wouldn't call that authoritative.
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  #5997  
Old 07-03-2018, 02:09 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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With the refugees, Stormwind's overcrowded. Deicide's right to say that the dark irons should have a bigger presence in Ironforge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Brief lunchtime post. I have been absolutely overjoyed at the post-burning of Teldrassil world quest environments, which appear to me to show a massive successful counterattack and which seems to bridge to the mission table content. It shows the Night Elves as a formidable threat, it does so in game, it gives the Druids back, and it's an incredible seed of optimism that I can't wait to expand on.

.... and the rest of the Night Elf community does NOT appear to be with me on this.
I've been holding back saying this because of all the "LOL ANOTHER DEPRESSED NIGHT ELF FAN xD" posts, but all I could think of when I saw the updates to Darkshore was, "this is great, but when's the next Horde cookout?"

I'm surprised you're over the moon about it.
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  #5998  
Old 07-03-2018, 02:28 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Mending View Post
With the refugees, Stormwind's overcrowded. Deicide's right to say that the dark irons should have a bigger presence in Ironforge.



I've been holding back saying this because of all the "LOL ANOTHER DEPRESSED NIGHT ELF FAN xD" posts, but all I could think of when I saw the updates to Darkshore was, "this is great, but when's the next Horde cookout?"

I'm surprised you're over the moon about it.
The trust issues I get and I share them, but think about what I've asked for over the last few years.

I have wanted Night Elves to be presented as threatening.
I have wanted their savagery back.
I have wanted them to be shown as operating differently from the rest of the Alliance, drawing on their prior themes.
I have wanted them to be shown as having successes against the Horde.
I have wanted their natural allies back on their side.
I have wanted their druids back on their side.
I have wanted that portrayed in game, not just stuffed in text or implied.

Pre-burning content? Awful. But post-burning? All of it is there. Every single major request I've had is fulfilled beautifully, and it doesn't look like they spared any effort. As I said as well, this bridges to the mission table content instead of asking me to take it on faith again that they come back. It shows me the beginning of that.

Credit where it's due, and it's absolutely due here.
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  #5999  
Old 07-03-2018, 02:57 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Mordecay View Post
Yeah, they made him canon.

It is Derek that died in the Second War and is also to... appear in BfA.
The problem isn't that he's been made canon, it's that there currently is a grave for him at Proudmoore Keep that says he was lost at sea while exploring years ago. Maybe there's a questline to find him that was added along with the end quests that just hasn't been noticed/reported on?
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  #6000  
Old 07-03-2018, 03:07 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The problem isn't that he's been made canon, it's that there currently is a grave for him at Proudmoore Keep that says he was lost at sea while exploring years ago. Maybe there's a questline to find him that was added along with the end quests that just hasn't been noticed/reported on?
Which I why I want to know his story.
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