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  #101  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:37 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
If Draenei are fine then so are Worgen.
Draenei got a bunch of cultural explanations (seeing daily lives in SMV, establishing how Exarchs work, and the like) and additions of things like vigilants in WoD. Velen is one of the characters in center stage right now, and we're going to Argus next patch. They're really in a good spot.

Worgen are better off in Legion than they were before but still lacking, though they're doing better than gnomes. Poor gnomes.
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  #102  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:49 AM
Peger Peger is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Draenei got a bunch of cultural explanations (seeing daily lives in SMV, establishing how Exarchs work, and the like) and additions of things like vigilants in WoD. Velen is one of the characters in center stage right now, and we're going to Argus next patch. They're really in a good spot.

Worgen are better off in Legion than they were before but still lacking, though they're doing better than gnomes. Poor gnomes.
The worgen aren't really getting much development in Legion, though - they are, once again, just serving to just push forward the Sylvanas/Forsaken story line.
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  #103  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:08 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Sylvanas' should've been ugly just because it's silly - to me anyway - that she's probably the only racial leader who looks nothing like the playable race she represents. In the case of the Forsaken it's also made worse by a race of rotting, deformed, skinless zombies being led by one of the game's biggest Rule 34 icons.

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Originally Posted by Peger View Post
The worgen aren't really getting much development in Legion, though - they are, once again, just serving to just push forward the Sylvanas/Forsaken story line.
The problem with the Worgen is how closely tied they are to Gilneas. For all that Alliance players like to complain they should reclaim Lordaeron, at least PC Humans are meant to be Stormwinders and retain that homeland. In the case of the Worgen, they would have to go out of their way to actually revamp Gilneas as a zone wholesale. As has been said, they're also tied far, far too closely to the Forsaken. Let's assuming for a minute that Gilneas is reclaimed. What happens then? Either they become Humans with a fursuit, or they become furry Night Elves. That or they continue to fight the Forsaken and we all know how well faction war(tm) conflict turns out.

Similarly, they're torn between two cultures. If they ditch Gilneas and focus on them as Worgen they run the huge risk of only further turning them into furry night elves and Blizzard are just not capable enough writers to do anything but that. Even if they did however, there would still be an enormous disconnect between their Gilnean heritage and even Genn himself considering he has pretty much zero ties to the 'furry night elf' side of their culture and story.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Worgen would have worked about a million times better as a Horde race.
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  #104  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:22 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The worgen 's biggest problem is that they are tied too deeply to the faction war which no side can ever win. They need to focus less on Forsaken and more on a third party goal. In contrast the Forsaken aren't really focused on the worgen, they're focused on val'kyr and other forms of making more of them, they just fight the worgen along the way.
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  #105  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:23 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Sylvanas' should've been ugly just because it's silly - to me anyway - that she's probably the only racial leader who looks nothing like the playable race she represents. In the case of the Forsaken it's also made worse by a race of rotting, deformed, skinless zombies being led by one of the game's biggest Rule 34 icons.
The most dead I could find.
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  #106  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:31 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Peger View Post
The worgen aren't really getting much development in Legion, though - they are, once again, just serving to just push forward the Sylvanas/Forsaken story line.
I think they've done a fine job with how they've written Genn. He fills the role of Alliance aggressor much better than Jaina, and the writers seem to know how to make him aggressive without making him a caricature like what they've unfortunately done with Jaina.

The recent Anduin cinematic helps as well, since it shows he hasn't given up any of his more sympathetic traits just because he's willing to attack the Horde.

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Worgen would have worked about a million times better as a Horde race.
Arguably so... but they weren't put on the Horde because the Horde already had cursed monster races covered. Having a pretty elf race also helped a lot with giving them more diversity. The Alliance needed something comparable, and it's always argued that Draenei were meant to fulfill that but I've just never seen it because Draenei are the same pristine, heroic race like the other Alliance races are.

I don't think it's the lack of Gilneas that holds them back, it's the lack of dev time given to make them solidly distinguishable as their own unique race.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 04-21-2017 at 08:43 AM..
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  #107  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:59 AM
Solokultas Solokultas is offline

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The most interesting part to me was how confused Nathanos was to encounter non Scourge undead.

Another point of interest is this: did Lich King had a need of living sacrifices to maintain his undead? Or was he powerful enough to support them by magic alone?
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  #108  
Old 04-21-2017, 08:41 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I don't think that there's anything wrong with Sylvanas looking nothing like the bulk of her subjects, if the Forsaken are meant to be a multicultural kingdom of the dead. The problem is that the Forsaken lack variety, making her stand out too much.
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  #109  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:35 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is online now

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Draenei are fine.

Worgen are fine.
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  #110  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:45 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Draenei are fine.

Worgen are fine.
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  #111  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:42 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Just popping into this thread to check if Sylvanas is still the worst?
Well, you decide:

1) Kidnaps random Alliance humans for Apothecary experiments, but specifically hunts down an Argent Crusade Paladin who's Nathanos's cousin and looks like Nathanos did when young.

2) Sacrifices a Valkyr's life force and kills said Argent Paladin so that she can give her lovely Nathanos a new, beautiful body that does not rot.

3) When Nathanos awakes in his new body, he regains the long-lost human senses and realizes that the Forsaken are a "race" of incredibly stinky corpses that are continuing to rot every day. He barely keeps a straight face in all that smell amongst the dark rangers.

4) Sylvanas is pouty and a bit angry that Nathanos is all business and considers the body just "good enough". Nathanos is acting oblivious, even when Dark Ranger Tanya teases him about Sylvie having the hots for him.

So, to recap: Warchief of the Horde sacrifices a faithful servant and kidnaps a neutral party (who idolized her in childhood) just to give her husbando a cute, younger shell.

The Forsaken! I still can't believe they were ever a part of the Horde!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
The worgen 's biggest problem is that they are tied too deeply to the faction war which no side can ever win.
More like "no side can ever win EXCEPT FOR THE FORSAKEN".

They just keep getting away with everything because there's always a bigger fish to come and unite against, while the Forsaken keep all they've conquered.
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  #112  
Old 04-21-2017, 10:59 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, you decide:

1) Kidnaps random Alliance humans for Apothecary experiments, but specifically hunts down an Argent Crusade Paladin who's Nathanos's cousin and looks like Nathanos did when young.

2) Sacrifices a Valkyr's life force and kills said Argent Paladin so that she can give her lovely Nathanos a new, beautiful body that does not rot.

3) When Nathanos awakes in his new body, he regains the long-lost human senses and realizes that the Forsaken are a "race" of incredibly stinky corpses that are continuing to rot every day. He barely keeps a straight face in all that smell amongst the dark rangers.

4) Sylvanas is pouty and a bit angry that Nathanos is all business and considers the body just "good enough". Nathanos is acting oblivious, even when Dark Ranger Tanya teases him about Sylvie having the hots for him.

So, to recap: Warchief of the Horde sacrifices a faithful servant and kidnaps a neutral party (who idolized her in childhood) just to give her husbando a cute, younger shell.

The Forsaken! I still can't believe they were ever a part of the Horde!
Holy SHIT.

Makes you wonder why we ever gave Zul'Jin such a hard time.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #113  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:13 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is online now

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Holy SHIT.

Makes you wonder why we ever gave Zul'Jin such a hard time.
Duh.

Because a rando offered us treasure.
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  #114  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:16 AM
Gromak Gromak is online now

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Zul'jin did nothing wrong.
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  #115  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:18 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
Zul'jin did nothing wrong.
Preach it.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #116  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:27 AM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Duh.

Because a rando offered us treasure.
*Angry Kellick noises*

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
Zul'jin did nothing wrong.
Zul'jin did some wrong. Just not very much.
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  #117  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:31 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is online now

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Originally Posted by Kellick View Post
*Angry Kellick noises*
It wasn't even a rando with any stakes in Zul Aman.
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  #118  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:47 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
It wasn't even a rando with any stakes in Zul Aman.
Was it Rando Masashi?
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  #119  
Old 04-21-2017, 11:55 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I feel like I'm either the only one noticing that Sylvanas probably wanted more Val'kyr (Stormheim) to make the ritual available for the entire Forsaken race, or that's just too obvious and it's silly for me to point it out.
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  #120  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I feel like I'm either the only one noticing that Sylvanas probably wanted more Val'kyr (Stormheim) to make the ritual available for the entire Forsaken race, or that's just too obvious and it's silly for me to point it out.
I mentioned the possibility that she might want to make it available to, at least, her other champion, the Forsaken commander, too!

(As a way to explain why Forsaken would be getting Dark Ranger-like humans and elves as subspecies.
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  #121  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:03 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
I feel like I'm either the only one noticing that Sylvanas probably wanted more Val'kyr (Stormheim) to make the ritual available for the entire Forsaken race, or that's just too obvious and it's silly for me to point it out.
That or to force more val'kyr to make soul contracts with her.
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  #122  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:08 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Kir the Wizard View Post
Well, you decide:

1) Kidnaps random Alliance humans for Apothecary experiments, but specifically hunts down an Argent Crusade Paladin who's Nathanos's cousin and looks like Nathanos did when young.
No, the ritual needs flesh similar to the owner.
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  #123  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:10 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is online now

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Really, with the amount of powers Val'kyr have been established to have by now, there's almost no plan that's not helped by having more of them.
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  #124  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:22 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
No, the ritual needs flesh similar to the owner.
Sylvanas' decayed pussy is what needs flesh similar to the owner.
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  #125  
Old 04-21-2017, 02:41 PM
MyMindWontQuiet MyMindWontQuiet is offline

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I liked the subtle mention of Sylvanas' banshee powers, when she raised her voice. There's not enough of that. She's called the Banshee Queen but we never get to see the banshee part.
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