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Old 10-22-2009, 11:03 AM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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WarCraft 3 B.net Eyeball Death Knights: What exactly are they and what's their future?

Greetings all. Been a fan of the site and your threads for a long time now and just decided to join up and post so go easy on the virgin and if you must be harsh, use the lubricant on the bed side table to the left please .

When it comes to Death Knights, can we consider them to be immortal and perfectly preserved via necromantic Magic? Or do we consider them to be more along the lines of the Forsaken, meaning a slowed but existent decay?

-Also-

What can we expect from them in the future? Their truce with the Argent Crusade at present has reached to it's ultimate point now with the formation of the Ashen Verdict, but when the Lich King meets his inevitable demise (Or the host's body does), How will relations work and further more what will be the role/place of the Ebon Blade in both Cataclysm and the coming expansions? Can someone throw me a theory here?

What would I like to see happen? Well I would like to see a strong alliance between Sylvanes and Darion Morgraine form. They both lead groups which are comprised of the fallen and still feared scars of the scourge, and their lands are very close to each other (Even more so if New Avalon becomes Ebon Blade land in Cataclysm). One could argue however, that this would not work lore wise due to the Ebon Blade's neutrality, but are they really neutral? "How do you figure sport?" You may ask: When you return to Stormwind or Orgrimmar as a Death Knight your more or less offering your services to fight against a common goal, not a solid alliance of any kind, so whom the members of the Ebon Blade call allies after the events of wrath is yet to be seen. What's your thoughts.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:26 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Player deathknights are a confusing sort. There seem to be three generations of deathknights, WCII era, WCIII era and WotLK era. WCII era death knights were simply human knight corpses with orc warlock and necrolyte souls inside, decidedly undead. WCIII death knights were actually living beings who served the lich king willingly (do bear in mind the initial unit name was "anti paladin" rather than "death knight). WotLK era death knights seem to be no more than special scourge "shock troops", dead and resurrected, and are probably a lot like the forsaken with the added bonus of the fact they died in a cold climate (player deathknights originate from a failed incursion onto ICC)) and were resurrected quickly, meaning, unlike the Forsaken, player deathknights had no opportunity to decay.
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:41 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Player DKs are pretty much the reanimated corpses of who they were before death. Yes, that's pretty obvious. They are a different kind of undead than any other in the WoW universe in that they don't decay (no quests or dialogue I've seen say anything to make me think they do) and they don't age. As far as all of the little nuances of living go, they do without. They don't feel physical discomfort (see: this quest; one of the things the DKs you rescue says is "Good thing I can't actually feel the cold"), they are free from the need to sleep or eat (can't find the quest, will edit in in when I do), and can withstand great physical pain (see: Vaelen the Frayed he was severely tortured and says nothing of the pain, but merely asks you to kill the guy holding the key; he even unshackles himself). They do, however, retain memories from life and emotions. They recall their friends and enemies, likes and dislikes, families, and in some cases vocations (pulling this from DK NPCs...yeah it's speculation but it's open for interpretation).

In short, player death knights are likely immortal or extremely long-lived, free-willed, undead, and very determined individuals. After Arthas dies, I'd expect that the Ebon Blade will either dissolve or assimilate into the Argent Crusade. Perhaps the Ashen Verdict is the final evolution of the two factions. They could also remain as just a neutral faction, policing the plaguelands and putting down the remnants of the Scourge. I don't think either will completely disappear. Player DKs will likely have fully rejoined society or just become random adventurers that happen to also be dead. I think that's gonna be up to the player though. All of this is my opinion and interpretation though, so don't feel like you have to agree just because I cited a couple Wowwiki articles that illustrated my points.

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Old 10-22-2009, 12:08 PM
Darkphoenix Darkphoenix is offline

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Thank you kindly for the welcome.

So seeing as though this third "Generation" of Death Knights are Scourge Elite or Elite Shock Troops, their use and reliance on the dark Arcane (in particular runic magic and necromantic death magic) could be viewed in future with disdain (Like with warlocks and fel magic) and even hostility by most other factions including the Holy focused and predominantly Holy wielders of the Argent Crusade. Now I see them as tolerated. Used more or less like important tools in the fight against old Lichy, now when the Lich King is gone and their primary use is complete, who's to say say they will not get the same, possibly even worse (considering there power) treatment by the other major factions mostly because they are viewed as far to dangerous to be left alive.

I think that I would like to see Blizz keep the Argent Dawn (or Argent Crusade. Don't know if the Argent Dawn still exists or if now it's completely absorbed by and known as only the Argent Crusade) and the Knights of the Ebon Blade Separate factions. Even with the Ashen Verdict, it is more of a name for a joint "venture" more than the melding of factions. I just think that they wield two different forces and both sides view the others force as weaker. The "Fighting fire with fire" thing will be seen as irrelevant when it comes to Death Knight's in the future Methinks.
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:35 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Death knights are humanoid (player) though aren't they? Also, they do have to eat and drink.

Last edited by Rolandius; 10-22-2009 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 10-22-2009, 07:37 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Quote:
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they do have to eat and drink.
What quest/dialogue points this out?
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:04 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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What quest/dialogue points this out?
You know, the players eating and drinking.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:04 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Rolandius. How old are you?
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:08 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Rolandius. How old are you?
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:10 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Quote:
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Rolandius. How old are you?
Its a fair question that I'm honestly curious about. Do you mind actually answering Rolandius?
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:20 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Its a fair question that I'm honestly curious about. Do you mind actually answering Rolandius?
Take a poll.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:22 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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I knew you wouldn't give a straight answer.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:22 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Well anyhow. It's not like i'd lose respect or start insulting you for your age.

But honestly? Because Playable race+class can eat makes it now lore? I mean are we really going to debate how a god damn WATER can full a mana bar? I mean Ghouls eat too but they don't eat because there hungry. There just monsters!
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:51 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Quote:
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Well anyhow. It's not like i'd lose respect or start insulting you for your age.

But honestly? Because Playable race+class can eat makes it now lore? I mean are we really going to debate how a god damn WATER can full a mana bar? I mean Ghouls eat too but they don't eat because there hungry. There just monsters!
Let's see how Rolandius got to this crazy conclusion.

Omacron said "WotLK era death knights seem to be no more than special scourge "shock troops", dead and resurrected, and are probably a lot like the forsaken with the added bonus of the fact they died in a cold climate (player deathknights originate from a failed incursion onto ICC)) and were resurrected quickly, meaning, unlike the Forsaken, player deathknights had no opportunity to decay."

So I said, "Death knights are humanoid (player) though aren't they? Also, they do have to eat and drink."

This is what everyone else read somehow, "All death knights have to eat and drink. Player death knights count as all death knights."

Wow.
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Old 10-22-2009, 08:55 PM
Drz Drz is offline

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Old 10-22-2009, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolandius View Post
Let's see how Rolandius got to this crazy conclusion.

Omacron said "WotLK era death knights seem to be no more than special scourge "shock troops", dead and resurrected, and are probably a lot like the forsaken with the added bonus of the fact they died in a cold climate (player deathknights originate from a failed incursion onto ICC)) and were resurrected quickly, meaning, unlike the Forsaken, player deathknights had no opportunity to decay."

So I said, "Death knights are humanoid (player) though aren't they? Also, they do have to eat and drink."

This is what everyone else read somehow, "All death knights have to eat and drink. Player death knights count as all death knights."

Wow.
They're all third generation Death Knights, whether they're player based or otherwise they all have the same basic attribute of being undead. One perk of undeath, you don't need sustenance or sleep to survive, it's more of a psychological remnant of what you once were.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:11 PM
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Take a poll.
I'm gonna say 12, max.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:12 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Quote:
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They're all third generation Death Knights, whether they're player based or otherwise they all have the same basic attribute of being undead. One perk of undeath, you don't need sustenance or sleep to survive, it's more of a psychological remnant of what you once were.
Well I was referring more to the Forsaken part. If forsaken are humanoid in-game, then death knight players are also right?
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
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Well I was referring more to the Forsaken part. If forsaken are humanoid in-game, then death knight players are also right?

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We're not talking about the game, we're talking about the lore. In lore it states, unequivocally, that all beings raised by the undead plague or necromantic magic is undead, period, end of story, fin.
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Old 10-22-2009, 09:29 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Quote:
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We're not talking about the game, we're talking about the lore. In lore it states, unequivocally, that all beings raised by the undead plague or necromantic magic is undead, period, end of story, fin.
I know that. I was just saying for players they changed the forsaken to humanoid so is that the same with death knight players?
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:27 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphoenix View Post
Thank you kindly for the welcome.

So seeing as though this third "Generation" of Death Knights are Scourge Elite or Elite Shock Troops, their use and reliance on the dark Arcane (in particular runic magic and necromantic death magic) could be viewed in future with disdain (Like with warlocks and fel magic) and even hostility by most other factions including the Holy focused and predominantly Holy wielders of the Argent Crusade. Now I see them as tolerated. Used more or less like important tools in the fight against old Lichy, now when the Lich King is gone and their primary use is complete, who's to say say they will not get the same, possibly even worse (considering there power) treatment by the other major factions mostly because they are viewed as far to dangerous to be left alive.

I think that I would like to see Blizz keep the Argent Dawn (or Argent Crusade. Don't know if the Argent Dawn still exists or if now it's completely absorbed by and known as only the Argent Crusade) and the Knights of the Ebon Blade Separate factions. Even with the Ashen Verdict, it is more of a name for a joint "venture" more than the melding of factions. I just think that they wield two different forces and both sides view the others force as weaker. The "Fighting fire with fire" thing will be seen as irrelevant when it comes to Death Knight's in the future Methinks.
Yeah, it would be nice if we got that involving a story from Blizzard. Though I have to disagree with you on the whole "looked down on" thing. Sure, some people will want the death knights dead too, but if they begin to act as a neutral anti-necromancy police force (like the anti-Cult of the Damned) and work to safeguard against a second rise of the Scourge I'm sure many will grow to accept and appreciate them.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:32 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Yeah, it would be nice if we got that involving a story from Blizzard. Though I have to disagree with you on the whole "looked down on" thing. Sure, some people will want the death knights dead too, but if they begin to act as a neutral anti-necromancy police force (like the anti-Cult of the Damned) and work to safeguard against a second rise of the Scourge I'm sure many will grow to accept and appreciate them.
Currently citizens throw fruit at them in capital cities and say "boo" and "hiss" or something.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:34 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Currently citizens throw fruit at them in capital cities and say "boo" and "hiss" or something.
That was only because they were believed to be Scourge agents.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:36 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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That was only because they were believed to be Scourge agents.
Really? I would think people or the military would do more than throw fruit at them if they saw a Scourge agent walking amongst them.
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Old 10-23-2009, 04:37 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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There is distrust amongs them, but when your leader Varian/Thrall proclaims these are free willed and willing servants now to the Alliance/Horde you need to show some respect. I mean it's the same thing with Warlocks and Demon Hunters.
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