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View Poll Results: Which shall it be!
Option 1! 22 59.46%
Option 2! 15 40.54%
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  #51  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:04 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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If we go with mana it should be something existing in all living things, perhaps a side effect of the living mind which would make it a kind of psionic. Some are born with the capability for generating and storing large amounts of mana in their bodies. Others have to train their mana generating ability and storage capability.
Some creatures thrive on consuming the mana, which would allow us to make our own kind of undead. Perhaps tie mana to the blood itself and that is what the vampires of our setting craves and which prolongs their eternal youth.

Edit: Also, I'm quite against trime travel. It can ruin or ridicule a setting quite fast. Allow clairvoyance and the ability to perceive past events but nothing time altering/travelling.
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  #52  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:06 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Just to warn everybody : I had work on a subterranean race (very different from the dwarves,maybe more akin to the Dark Elves of DnD but I can't be sure since I don't know DnD). Obviously, I will work around the concept to be sure that it will work in the world we will design, but I think that some list or maybe appendix (other threads) to gather likeminded people : those who want to work around humans, those who want to work around elves-like, etc...

But, obviously, we should work out the basics first.

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Do we want magic by training or conditioned?
Do we want gods to be real or fake? How much power?
How much do we want to alter the laws of life, space and time?
Resurrection?
How many continents? Oceans? Moons?
General level of technology?
Realms/Dimensions?
For me :

Magic should be a training, but genius exist just like there is genius in other disciplines.

Gods should be real, but should have limitations in their powers and miracle (every one of them should have a specific price which must be paid to grant miracle).

The less as possible : portals should be techmagi only and thereforce extra-rare, time travel should be avoided with the exception of predestined ones (often with a tragic destiny).

Ressurection should be granted only by the greatest mages/priests/techno-masters but always come at a great cost.

I would say 5 continents, and 6 oceans, and since the moon, I would like a world with 3 moons.

The general level of tehcnology should be the one that the humans have achieved in GW2 : they have powder and are able to use rifles, pistols etc... but they don't have this much firearms as they don't have the industry to craft them (Charrs' level should be allowed only to the most technologic species, since they have managed to create water purification plants).

European size at much for the realms seem good, but we could add some special cases : the oceanic kingdoms could be larger if their island are few and far between, and the subterranean reams could have a lot of tunnels to connect their few cities.

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And that's even better, I think with races cultural context should be more important in what they can do, than something that's innate.
Yep, it's what I tried to put in my view on magic.
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  #53  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:18 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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If we're talking about gods, maybe we should go deist? As in, god(s) exist and there is definite proof of something of inhuman power shaping existence (for example, a titanic size stone tablet with commandments, in a sheer cliff-face, without any trace of human-like tools shaping it), but they pretty much don't care about mortals. When someone does reach them, they attempt to avoid taking responsibility as long as possible.
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  #54  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:18 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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I'm glad to see the discussion coming along so nicely. I can't change the poll and even if I could I wouldn't because if we're going to resort to metrics for every last decision we'll never get anywhere. Discussion and dialog, that's the way.

And let's remember now. Magic isn't necessarily supposed to be a kind of ne plus ultra. It can be if we want it to, but by making magic ultimately powerful and decisive we commit ourselves to a very particular kind of story.

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This mostly comes from my hate of the concept that the humans are "jack of all trades", while other races are all specialized.

I'd rather make humes special in a different way then provide them both magic, warrior prowess and technology.
How's this sound: most races or species of this world have innate magical capability, possibly related to some kind of organic reservoir of potential or another physiological quality that somehow allows them to sense and manipulate the ambient currents or thaumic fields of magic energy in the world around them. Humans are the only sapient race that does not share this ability, and is the only species utterly incapable of using magic.

This means we're automatically the underdogs. In a world infused with magic and populated with races to whom it is a way of life, we're playing on hard mode. This leads to technological advancement and a more scientific approach to the world than the laissez faire philosophies of races which never had to struggle quite so hard to survive.

It also means human slavery might be commonplace among certain factions of the other races. Many no doubt would look at humans as weak, pathetic beasts fit for menial tasks but nothing more, while some might be fascinated by our success and strive to emulate the traditions of analysis and scientific method held in reverence by many human cultures.

How's it sound? Give it some thought and discussion, anyway. I have to go do stuff now, but I might be back later today.

And Shroombie! Send your goddamn Diplomacy orders!
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  #55  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:23 AM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I think that we ought to establish tech levels. Are we going to have a world where everyone is on the same level? A world where we have an extreme variation in tech like WoW? Something like Warhammer? Steam punk? Modern? Future?

I'd want something like Warhammer. Tech can be present, and you can get fairly creative, but it won't dominate the game.

Also, for undead, I think it would be cool if used an underworld type system for them where they are trapped beneath the crust to contain them. The system worked until subterranean races like the dwarves unleashed them. So instead of races like humans having undead problems, dwarves, goblins, or mole men do.
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  #56  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:26 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
If we go with mana it should be something existing in all living things, perhaps a side effect of the living mind which would make it a kind of psionic. Some are born with the capability for generating and storing large amounts of mana in their bodies. Others have to train their mana generating ability and storage capability.
Some creatures thrive on consuming the mana, which would allow us to make our own kind of undead. Perhaps tie mana to the blood itself and that is what the vampires of our setting craves and which prolongs their eternal youth.
I think Psionic should be a trained school of magic rather than something inherent in every magician, even if it's a very basic magical thing.

My assumption is that higher use of mana would promote more storage and more generation, but nothing that could become too different between trained mages.

I think mana consumption would be okay. Vampirism is a touchy thing that we should stay out while we're doing the big stuff.

Quote:
Edit: Also, I'm quite against trime travel. It can ruin or ridicule a setting quite fast. Allow clairvoyance and the ability to perceive past events but nothing time altering/travelling.
While Time Travel can be bullshitty, "present predestination" would remove a lot of problems with that.

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post
Just to warn everybody : I had work on a subterranean race (very different from the dwarves,maybe more akin to the Dark Elves of DnD but I can't be sure since I don't know DnD). Obviously, I will work around the concept to be sure that it will work in the world we will design, but I think that some list or maybe appendix (other threads) to gather likeminded people : those who want to work around humans, those who want to work around elves-like, etc...

But, obviously, we should work out the basics first.
Yeah I had a idea too involving a consortium of races controlled by a magi-tech AI, but I want some decisions made first. Maybe we should open a thread for working on races independent of this one...

Quote:
The less as possible : portals should be techmagi only and thereforce extra-rare, time travel should be avoided with the exception of predestined ones (often with a tragic destiny).
I was thinking more of warcraft-style mage portal, but large permanent portals could be a thing for magi-techs.


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Ressurection should be granted only by the greatest mages/priests/techno-masters but always come at a great cost.
I think there's various ways we can work resurrection, but we have to be extremely careful how, divine miracles are pretty much granted, technological-based resurrection also becomes a given if we allowed high tech but of course would be extremely expensive or would have the same limitations as Girl Genius(memory loss/destroyed brain brings the body but no mind), and I guess magical resurrection for healer schools would work too provided the healer can repair the damage and is very fast about it.


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I would say 5 continents, and 6 oceans, and since the moon, I would like a world with 3 moons.
While I agree with the rest I would prefer some more continents(even if they are kinda like Europe) and since this is a multiple minds creative work I think 9/8 would be ideal.

Quote:
The general level of tehcnology should be the one that the humans have achieved in GW2 : they have powder and are able to use rifles, pistols etc... but they don't have this much firearms as they don't have the industry to craft them (Charrs' level should be allowed only to the most technologic species, since they have managed to create water purification plants).
But that's just one race, we could make races of constructs. I think it should be a little flexible, otherwise we would have technological races being absolutely pwned by magical ones.

Quote:
European size at much for the realms seem good, but we could add some special cases : the oceanic kingdoms could be larger if their island are few and far between, and the subterranean reams could have a lot of tunnels to connect their few cities.
I wasn't talking about Kingdoms, I was talking about things like Daedric realms, elementals planes, and that stuff all around D&D.
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  #57  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:28 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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I like Anansi's development.

About Korath's post, I think I'd like gods existing but being absent, save a few excptions. The number of continents and moons seems fine to me.
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  #58  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:34 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
I think that we ought to establish tech levels. Are we going to have a world where everyone is on the same level? A world where we have an extreme variation in tech like WoW? Something like Warhammer? Steam punk? Modern? Future?

I'd want something like Warhammer. Tech can be present, and you can get fairly creative, but it won't dominate the game.
I think that's the Ideal way of going with technology and with stuff in general, like magic, time travel, teleportation and resurrection, flexible but limited in a way that it doesn't dominate.

Quote:
Also, for undead, I think it would be cool if used an underworld type system for them where they are trapped beneath the crust to contain them. The system worked until subterranean races like the dwarves unleashed them. So instead of races like humans having undead problems, dwarves, goblins, or mole men do.
I prefer the standard undead are constructs stuff. However an ancient undead threat could exist underground.

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Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
I like Anansi's development.

About Korath's post, I think I'd like gods existing but being absent, save a few exceptions. The number of continents and moons seems fine to me.
I don't want them to be too absent and with some them interested in their followers. Like I said I prefer a higher number of continents, Earth has 7 continents, I think the number should be atleast that or higher than that.
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  #59  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:35 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
We would have to deal with a bunch of polls just to finish the cosmogenesis.

1.Do we want magic by training or conditioned?
2.Do we want gods to be real or fake? How much power?
3.How much do we want to alter the laws of life, space and time?
4.Resurrection?
5.How many continents? Oceans? Moons?
6.General level of technology?
7.Realms/Dimensions?
1. Conditioned. Some are talented with it from an early age while others have the potential to be able to wield it through hard training. Some would never ever be able to. Mana should be present in all living things.

2.Real gods who can be powerful but not omnipotent. They're not the creators of their worshipers, the worshipers create them.

3.It should be possible but very difficult and come at a high price, possibly a price that is too high. Time is the only thing I'd be totally against except for clairvoyance and perceiving of past events.

4.Very rare. True ressurection after a prolonged death should be so rare that it's the most legendary stories. Ressurection within hours of death I could accept but it should be at a high cost.

5. 6 Continents and 7 seas . 3 Moons.

6. Something like warcraft but could also go up to steampunk levels. Rifles and guns but not too advanced.

7. Yes but on the level of how it would be to dive into the mind of a person. A truely wierd experience depending on the theme of the realm.
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  #60  
Old 05-07-2013, 10:36 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
Yeah I had a idea too involving a consortium of races controlled by a magi-tech AI, but I want some decisions made first. Maybe we should open a thread for working on races independent of this one...
Interesting, but I was thinking more about threads were people interested in the same type fo species could work together on questions like : Do our races know eachother ? Etc...

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
While I agree with the rest I would prefer some more continents(even if they are kinda like Europe) and since this is a multiple minds creative work I think 9/8 would be ideal.
Why not ? I just felt that more than five could be hard to flesh out correctly, but we could laways begin with less continents and work on the remaining ones later.

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
I wasn't talking about Kingdoms, I was talking about things like Daedric realms, elementals planes, and that stuff all around D&D.
Oh, ok. Then, since I don't really know how the Realms work, I will go with your idea !

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I prefer the standard undead are constructs stuff. However an ancient undead threat could exist underground.
When you say constructs, you mean assembled by mecromancy/necrotech ?

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post

But that's just one race, we could make races of constructs. I think it should be a little flexible, otherwise we would have technological races being absolutely pwned by magical ones.
So, mechanical creatures ? It could be interesting but then, they would be the remnants of an ancient and more advanced race, no ?

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
2.Real gods who can be powerful but not omnipotent. They're not the creators of their worshipers, the worshipers create them.
I think that Gods should be independent from their followers. For instance, the species that I worked out for quite some time now (the Kaaradi) discovered their gods in the distant past. Those gods are powerful entities which doesn't really exist in the plane of the mortal races and they were gods even without worshipers. The Kaaradi needed those entities to survive and stop the Others from Below and thereforce the gods made them paid a price for their help.

But in fact, we could have different sort of Gods, with the clashes which could result from those differencies.
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  #61  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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1. Conditioned. Some are talented with it from an early age while others have the potential to be able to wield it through hard training. Some would never ever be able to. Mana should be present in all living things.
I disagree with this, I think every sapient being should be able to use magic. You propose a inherent statement on magic, and while I don't oppose people that can't do magic, I oppose their inability to be inherent to them, I prefer mental/external blocks or just sucking at it.(In a way i'm saying that people being incapable of using magic should be the same as someone saying they suck at math)

Quote:
2.Real gods who can be powerful but not omnipotent. They're not the creators of their worshipers, the worshipers create them.
I definitely approve worshipper-made deities. We could also have deities made from worshippers of foreign worlds that want to expand their powers trough the cosmos.(Doesn't mean worshippers can go to other worlds. Just the gods)

Quote:
3.It should be possible but very difficult and come at a high price, possibly a price that is too high. Time is the only thing I'd be totally against except for clairvoyance and perceiving of past events.
Everyone seems to be opposed Well I wasn't suggesting people changing the past. Well I guess I will drop time travel in a significant way, however not time-enhancing magics.

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6. Something like warcraft but could also go up to steampunk levels. Rifles and guns but not too advanced.
I prefer a little higher and varied as long as they don't dominate.

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post
Interesting, but I was thinking more about threads were people interested in the same type fo species could work together on questions like : Do our races know eachother ? Etc...
That's okay I guess but I think we would end up with too many threads for this project.

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Why not ? I just felt that more than five could be hard to flesh out correctly, but we could always begin with less continents and work on the remaining ones later.
Remember that continents can be attached and not completely surrounded by water and some can be artic wastelands like Antarctica and some can be as tiny as Europe. Also we want as much creativity as possible

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Oh, ok. Then, since I don't really know how the Realms work, I will go with your idea !
Those were just examples. It's not an absolute sample


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When you say constructs, you mean assembled by mecromancy/necrotech ?
That's 2 ways of doing it, when I said construct, I meant that they can be made by anyone with the materials and knowledge rather than something limited to a disease or an ancient threat(disease and ancient threat undead could still happen).

Quote:
So, mechanical creatures ? It could be interesting but then, they would be the remnants of an ancient and more advanced race, no ?
Again that's 2 ways of doing. I'm trying to make my proposals in a way that gives the most creative control to the posters of SoL.

Quote:
I think that Gods should be independent from their followers. For instance, the species that I worked out for quite some time now (the Kaaradi) discovered their gods in the distant past. Those gods are powerful entities which doesn't really exist in the plane of the mortal races and they were gods even without worshipers. The Kaaradi needed those entities to survive and stop the Others from Below and thereforce the gods made them paid a price for their help.

But in fact, we could have different sort of Gods, with the clashes which could result from those differencies.
You could make that ancient forgotten gods whose worshippers died and have gone into hibernation, and were found later by the Kaaradi. Or my suggestion above of cosmic gods expanding their worshipper base. (These are just suggestions.)

But yeah we could have different types of gods.
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  #62  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:13 AM
Korath Korath is offline

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You could make that ancient forgotten gods whose worshippers died and have gone into hibernation, and were found later by the Kaaradi. Or my suggestion above of cosmic gods expanding their worshipper base. (These are just suggestions.)
I love it. Thereforce, I would use this idea and put the Records of the Ashendant as the last legacy of their first worshipers !
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:22 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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I love it. Thereforce, I would use this idea and put the Records of the Ashendant as the last legacy of their first worshipers !
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  #64  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I'm gonna hog a group of elves, norse and germanic culture if it's ok with you all.
I've always wanted to make a group of elves who've split from other elves in the distant past, formed a norse/early germanic society of magic and shamanism, with gods in the same way as the norse gods and with major ancestral worship.
Who have reformed their old heathen faith into a more structured religion in the present and are in a major intrernal conflict of interests as technology has advanced towards something similar to the Empire of Warhammer. Some wants to embrace technology, others wants to stay true to their magical past while others seek to blend it. All of this as a more agnostic world view nearing atheism rises among the youth, even when their gods are real.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:27 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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I'm gonna hog a group of elves, norse and germanic culture if it's ok with you all.
I've always wanted to make a group of elves who've split from other elves in the distant past, formed a norse/early germanic society of magic and shamanism, with gods in the same way as the norse gods and with major ancestral worship.
Who have reformed their old heathen faith into a more structured religion in the present and are in a major intrernal conflict of interests as technology has advanced towards something similar to the Empire of Warhammer. Some wants to embrace technology, others wants to stay true to their magical past while others seek to blend it. All of this as a more agnostic world view nearing atheism rises among the youth, even when their gods are real.
I think you can do that as long as you don't hog it forever.


I had an idea, what if some/most of the realms were the afterlives that those gods keep the souls and spirits of the dead destined to follow that realm god's doctrine for eternity.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:32 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I think you can do that as long as you don't hog it forever.


I had an idea, what if some/most of the realms were the afterlives that those gods keep the souls and spirits of the dead destined to follow that realm god's doctrine for eternity.
Hog and hog, meant I wanted to use those themes/influences.
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  #67  
Old 05-07-2013, 11:34 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Hog and hog, meant I wanted to use those themes/influences.
In my opinion that's okay. Just my opinion though.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:39 AM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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That's 2 ways of doing it, when I said construct, I meant that they can be made by anyone with the materials and knowledge rather than something limited to a disease or an ancient threat(disease and ancient threat undead could still happen).
I don't know if I like that idea much. I'd rathe the undead be an uncommon, unnatural, not something that mortals can't create by themselves.

Also, I'm really not a fan of portals or time travel at all. Portals especially of the WoW mage variant because they would make so many things in a setting pointless. You don't need boats because you can use a portal. No need for trade routes because you can portal. Defenses are pointless because you can use a portal to go through them, you don't need supply lines, you can't effectively run a siege. They just create to many plot holes for any setting that isn't centered on them.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:52 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I don't know if I like that idea much. I'd rathe the undead be an uncommon, unnatural, not something that mortals can't create by themselves.

Also, I'm really not a fan of portals or time travel at all. Portals especially of the WoW mage variant because they would make so many things in a setting pointless. You don't need boats because you can use a portal. No need for trade routes because you can portal. Defenses are pointless because you can use a portal to go through them, you don't need supply lines, you can't effectively run a siege. They just create to many plot holes for any setting that isn't centered on them.
You got a point there with the portals.
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:56 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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We better have some floating land pieces :3 (and underwater continents)

And I would like it if magic is not toooo OP-ish. I'm also against portals and timetravel, sorry.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:02 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
I don't know if I like that idea much. I'd rathe the undead be an uncommon, unnatural, not something that mortals can't create by themselves.

Also, I'm really not a fan of portals or time travel at all. Portals especially of the WoW mage variant because they would make so many things in a setting pointless. You don't need boats because you can use a portal. No need for trade routes because you can portal. Defenses are pointless because you can use a portal to go through them, you don't need supply lines, you can't effectively run a siege. They just create to many plot holes for any setting that isn't centered on them.
I have the opposite view, mainly for the sake of being as most flexible as possible, but also because apprentice necromancers are so fun for dungeon fodder. Doesn't mean its something extremely easy to make or extremely common.

Portals can be expensive to make or require vast amounts of specific magical knowledge, or both. It will be rare enough that can't easily replace boats or troop movements, and there could be counter-magics for unauthorised portals in cities. Sieges, supply lines and defences are still viable if you keep it a extremely specialized type of magic.

EDIT:
Quote:
We better have some floating land pieces :3 (and underwater continents)

And I would like it if magic is not toooo OP-ish. I'm also against portals and timetravel, sorry.
I have plans for floating isles

I rather not forbid anything that will suppress creativity, just because some won't like it. And yes making magic too OP-ish is something we want to avoid, Time Travel and Portals is not something that can do that, if done in a good way.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:05 PM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Magic is indeed a good point to agree on first. Then the other physical laws and thingies.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:05 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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If it isn't obvious I would like to be the lead for dwarves. I want to have 3 main civilizations. Classic, Egyptian, and Mayan/Aztec. I'd probably rather have them spread throughout the world rather than being on one continent.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:07 PM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Humans as under-under-dogs? I like that. I want to play those.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:07 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
If it isn't obvious I would like to be the lead for dwarves. I want to have 3 main civilizations. Classic, Egyptian, and Mayan/Aztec. I'd probably rather have them spread throughout the world rather than being on one continent.
Remember that, in principle, you don't get to hog all dwarves or those themes. If someone wants it they can work on that topic too, as long as it doesn't contradict yours. This is a suggestion.
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