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View Poll Results: Which race's language do you want to create first?
Night Elves - Darnassian 31 29.25%
Blood Elves - Thalassian 10 9.43%
Trolls - Zandali 18 16.98%
Elementals - Kalimag 3 2.83%
Orc - Orcish 18 16.98%
Titans (Earthen/Mechagnome/etc) - Titanic 8 7.55%
Dwarves - Dwarven 7 6.60%
Draenei - Eredun (Both corrupted and uncorrupted) 5 4.72%
Dragons - Draconic 4 3.77%
Tauren - Taur-ahe 2 1.89%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:20 PM
Philostrate Philostrate is offline

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Consider this: ideographic systems, such as those used for Chinese and Mayan, are independent of the language itself. For example, many Chinese dialects are unintelligable to each other. Under normal circumstances, that would make them seperate languages. However, they usually get lumped together as a single "language" because they all use the same writing. Cantonese and Mandarin have very different spoken forms, but the written form is essentially interchangable. Thus, it is entirely possible that our Troll could be reading 10k+ year-old tablets. The spoken form could've changed massively, but the ancient glyphs would still be readable.
YES! YES! I accept this!
That works well
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:46 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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The problem with assuming troll dialects are different even if the writing is the same is that we see trolls of other tribes communing with each other and no one seems to have any language barrier. I mean, granted, we have aliens from other planets communicating with each other, but if there were different troll dialects you'd think that'd come up.

As to why Darnassian is different than Zandali, bear in mind it has significant titanic influence. Darnassian can be a combination of Zandali and Titan in the same way English is a combination of Norse and French.
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:50 PM
Kellick Kellick is offline

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It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that I'd go for Zandali. We've seen more than our fair share of Trolls dungeons, names, tribes, ruins and the like to build a fairly impressive list.

Mind you, I don't know whether I'd be able to contribute to this project in any meaningful way.
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  #29  
Old 09-13-2011, 10:46 PM
Philostrate Philostrate is offline

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The problem with assuming troll dialects are different even if the writing is the same is that we see trolls of other tribes communing with each other and no one seems to have any language barrier. I mean, granted, we have aliens from other planets communicating with each other, but if there were different troll dialects you'd think that'd come up.

As to why Darnassian is different than Zandali, bear in mind it has significant titanic influence. Darnassian can be a combination of Zandali and Titan in the same way English is a combination of Norse and French.
Different dialects, not languages. Different accents, sound and syllable variations, and idioms. Examples be that in the American South where I am, we tend to say "ya'll" as a shortened version of "you all" or how Canadian's pronounce "ou"s in words as "oo". Despite these variations, the people use the same language and can still communicate together.

Now, could the Dark troll language have been more....different than the others? In fact....would the dark trolls be more removed and prefer not to gather with the other trolls? Any indications of that?
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  #30  
Old 09-13-2011, 10:51 PM
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I suppose one could make the case that there are different variations of Zandali, but the differences would be closer to, say, Mexican vs. Castillian Spanish rather than Castillian vs. Catalan.

Now, as to dark trolls, they are said to be more primitive and more reclusive than other troll societies, but it's also said that the Drakkari were the furthest removed from normal troll culture, if I recall.
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  #31  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:21 AM
Nimbosa Nimbosa is offline

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@Nimbosa: I think certain names are just automatically translated so the player gets the assocoiation.
that's what i think too, which is why i don't want to involve english in this at all. or latin or greek, except to the extent that they've already been involved (in kalimag, for example).
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  #32  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:31 AM
Philostrate Philostrate is offline

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I suppose one could make the case that there are different variations of Zandali, but the differences would be closer to, say, Mexican vs. Castillian Spanish rather than Castillian vs. Catalan.

Now, as to dark trolls, they are said to be more primitive and more reclusive than other troll societies, but it's also said that the Drakkari were the furthest removed from normal troll culture, if I recall.
Yeah, I would agree with that example.

For the dark trolls, I review the old RPG books (I know they are not officially canon by I am going on the notion that if there is nothing about the subject matter anywhere else then to go there and use it until the info is altered by something else) and found that the gatherings on Zuldazar were said to consist of all the troll tribes; however, they did not mention the dark...they did mention the sand, ice, jungle and forest trolls-----can we assume that the darks were invited? Or since the emphasis on the dark trolls is new and Blizz forgot them until the 5th Magazine that they might have unfortunately been overlooked in the composition of the RPG books?

Naturally, the Drakkari were the furtherest removed geographical---but were they the furtherest from the practices of mainstream troll culture......ugh....

I am confusing myself!!!!!

I just need to know how Darnassian could have emerged from Zandali....maybe the dialect of the dark trolls had that same some of flowing cadence that we see with the elves? And that might have done something?
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  #33  
Old 09-14-2011, 11:02 AM
Aedror Aedror is offline

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Originally Posted by DarkAngel View Post
Anyone know what was Klingon based on? That would be the obvious starting point for Orcish.
I believe the Klingon language was inspired by one of the many native american languages, I will try to find my Star Trek dvd's and check the special features.
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  #34  
Old 09-14-2011, 11:50 AM
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Just a quick note, it seems people believe Darnassian is the most popular language to start on (and the easiest considering we have two different languages associated with it that populate the world alongside its own well known phrases.)
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  #35  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Philostrate View Post
I just need to know how Darnassian could have emerged from Zandali....maybe the dialect of the dark trolls had that same some of flowing cadence that we see with the elves? And that might have done something?
I'm guessing Titanic influence. Who knows what else they found by the WoE. The Night Elf word for "star" is derived from the titans so they must have interacted in some capacity with their language.
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  #36  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Mna i'm he only who voted for kalimag pooh
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  #37  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:16 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I'm guessing Titanic influence. Who knows what else they found by the WoE. The Night Elf word for "star" is derived from the titans so they must have interacted in some capacity with their language.
Who knows how the interactions between the satellite known as the White Lady and the Well of the Eternity could have altered their language?
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  #38  
Old 09-14-2011, 01:17 PM
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Mna i'm he only who voted for kalimag pooh
We gotta start somewhere, and Darnassian is probably the easiest one to work with. Kalimag will come soon enough, I guarantee it.
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  #39  
Old 09-14-2011, 02:11 PM
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Soooo is the voting closed and if so, where shall we proceed from here?
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  #40  
Old 09-14-2011, 02:29 PM
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Interesting. I'll help as much as I can, though my knowledge of linguistics is limited.
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  #41  
Old 09-14-2011, 04:05 PM
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Soooo is the voting closed and if so, where shall we proceed from here?
Voting isn't closed per-se, however Darnassian is currently the clear winner and working on two closely related languages will inevitably improve both. Thus it's better to get started now than let things stagnate.

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Interesting. I'll help as much as I can, though my knowledge of linguistics is limited.
As is mine, however in this case it isn't just linguistics that are needed. We need artists, imaginations, and most importantly, individuals willing to sit down and do research. Linguistics pulls everything together by creating the rules, but once the rules are established we can create a near infinite word/idea set.

So considering Darnassian is our intro pick, we need three things from the start. One, we need to look into the root real world language it was pulled from in order to understand how Blizzard wanted it to evolve. Two, we need to do research on instances of its usage in-canon as well as Night Elf/Highborne culture. Three, we need to look at root and branch languages associated with it so we can understand the basic themes that are at its core, these being Zandali and Thalassian.
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  #42  
Old 09-14-2011, 04:10 PM
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Do we know what the real world base language for Darnassian is?
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  #43  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:02 PM
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Do we know what the real world base language for Darnassian is?
I think it's based in the tolkien languages.
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  #44  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:16 PM
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I think it's based in the tolkien languages.
I am getting an Asian feel from some of it. And not just from the architecture lol. But yes, it does seem rooted in the Tolkien-ese lingual stereotypes.

And does anyone know if there are lyrics to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9iqUVY15VI which is the Cata piece called "Nightsong" it can help us develop syllable pronouncations.

PS: In the new book, Tyrande looks at a note and recognizes the elaborate script as being from the time of Azshara. Sooooo this means the script has evolved at the very least.
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  #45  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:15 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Philostrate View Post
I am getting an Asian feel from some of it. And not just from the architecture lol. But yes, it does seem rooted in the Tolkien-ese lingual stereotypes.

And does anyone know if there are lyrics to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9iqUVY15VI which is the Cata piece called "Nightsong" it can help us develop syllable pronouncations.

PS: In the new book, Tyrande looks at a note and recognizes the elaborate script as being from the time of Azshara. Sooooo this means the script has evolved at the very least.

Possibly. I've not read it, but it could just be that "script" has fallen out of style, much like flowing script in modern English has.

I really don't get an asian or oriental vibe from Darnassian. Living in Hawaii, I hear many oriental languages, and even If I can't necessarily tell them all apart, they all sound very, very rough compared to Darnassians much more fluid style.
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  #46  
Old 09-14-2011, 11:05 PM
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Darnassian seems to be based on what "sounds elvish" which means it's based on one of Tolkiens Elven languages, the best known of which are Quenya (based on Finnish) and Sindarin (based on Welsh).
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  #47  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:09 AM
Aedror Aedror is offline

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I believe the Klingon language was inspired by one of the many native american languages, I will try to find my Star Trek dvd's and check the special features.
Wikipedia confirmed that it was based of native american languages. I, however, wasn't able to find the dvd where they tell excactly which native american language that has been used as base for the language.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philostrate View Post
And does anyone know if there are lyrics to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9iqUVY15VI which is the Cata piece called "Nightsong" it can help us develop syllable pronouncations.
It does indeed seem darnassian (words such as Aszhara and "Elune A'dore" appeard in the song). Some parts of the song also sounds japanese to me, atleast it sounds like the japanese used in the Empire of the Rising Sun's theme in Red Alert 3.

Last edited by Aedror; 09-15-2011 at 07:14 AM..
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  #48  
Old 09-15-2011, 07:27 AM
Falarson Falarson is offline

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Nordrassil, Zin-Azshari, Quel'Dorei, Elune Adore. Those are the phrases said in Nightsong.
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  #49  
Old 09-15-2011, 11:05 AM
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Nordrassil, Zin-Azshari, Quel'Dorei, Elune Adore. Those are the phrases said in Nightsong.
Yeah, it seems like....since it was just to be background music that they chose "elf-like" words and shoved them to together to sound pretty. Nevertheless, it might be able to give us some insight how the words sound.

Of course, when you click on blood elf guards they say "Glory to the Sin'dorei" in which Sin'dorei is SIN-dor-EYE and in the sung "Lament of the Highborne" it is SIN-dor-AE.....sooooo.....hmmmm.....
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  #50  
Old 09-15-2011, 11:39 AM
Nimbosa Nimbosa is offline

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Of course, when you click on blood elf guards they say "Glory to the Sin'dorei" in which Sin'dorei is SIN-dor-EYE and in the sung "Lament of the Highborne" it is SIN-dor-AYE.....sooooo.....hmmmm.....
what's more, in the first the emphasis is on "dor" and the second it's on the other two syllables. dialect? high elf/blood elf thing?
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