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  #51  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:59 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Joke's on you, Cyberlion. I pay women to hit me in the balls and stronger men than you have tried, and failed, to cut my hair. Wanna know the secret?



I'm already a cyborg. It's made out of carbon nanotubes.
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  #52  
Old 09-22-2012, 09:13 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Joke's on you, Cyberlion. I pay women to hit me in the balls and stronger men than you have tried, and failed, to cut my hair. Wanna know the secret?



I'm already a cyborg. It's made out of carbon nanotubes.
What if I got a laser and cut your "hair" with it?
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  #53  
Old 09-22-2012, 09:15 PM
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I'd probably maul your face before you could finish.
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  #54  
Old 09-22-2012, 09:16 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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I'd probably maul your face before you could finish.
So, the truth comes out! You're really a badger in a mech suit!
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  #55  
Old 09-23-2012, 06:32 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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So, the truth comes out! You're really a badger in a mech suit!
Omacron don't care. He doesn't give a shit.
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  #56  
Old 09-23-2012, 09:07 AM
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I'll tell you guys what's my stance on nationalism and separatism.

First of all, I fully believe that it is the right for every ethnic group and nation to choose for themselves who they want to be governed by. No other ethnic group or political force has the right to impose their authority upon people who don't identify themselves with their rulers. Saying otherwise would be hypocritical, as my nation has struggled for independence from our colonial rulers in the past.

Despiite this, for those people who do feel the need to be freed from the shackles of their foreign rulers, one must ask the simple question: why? Why is it that I need to create my own nation? Will separatism bring more good or harm to my people?

There are many ethnic groups in the world who are being racially prejudiced, oppressed and treated as second-class citizens by the majority. We've seen countless racially-motivated aggressions and murders in the news that I don't feel the need to give you examples. However, there are other ethnic groups who just happen to have different traditions and speak a different language than the rest of the people of the country they live in. They live a perfectly normal life and are not abused or prejudiced in any way, yet there are many who feel that their cultural pride and heritage must come above anything else; that their identity calls out to them to freedom.

If cultural pride is the only reason that you can bring forward to justify your desire for independence, you're just an arrogant person and you're just asking for trouble. In fact, that's what nationalist politicians do to get attention. They speak out blissful words of independence and freedom, but in reality they only do so to get people to vote for them; in essence, they're no more than populists trying to gain the support of their people. It's even stupider if you consider the economical climate that the world is in now. If a region or state decides to separate itself from the country, what economic benefits will it bring you?

Lastly, I'd also like to point out that multicultural societies of multiple ethnic groups living together already exist. Switzerland is a perfect example: neither the French, German or Italian-speaking regions want to be a separate country because of cultural or linguistic reasons.

I'd also like to provide you with a map of all of Europe's supposed "minorities". Imagine if they all wanted independence, Europe would be a fucking mess:

Don't ever include Mallorca and Valencia inside Catalonia. If something, Aragon, Catalonia, Mallorca and Valencia are all of them part of the old crown of Aragon.

But Catalonia has no right over any of those 3, and they hate them for trying to absorb them, with passion. Be careful with that topic.

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Can't get worse anyway.
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  #57  
Old 09-23-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Don't ever include Mallorca and Valencia inside Catalonia. If something, Aragon, Catalonia, Mallorca and Valencia are all of them part of the old crown of Aragon.

But Catalonia has no right over any of those 3, and they hate them for trying to absorb them, with passion. Be careful with that topic.
I got that map from a very biased pro-minorities EU website.

I never knew that Andalousians were a minority, lol.
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  #58  
Old 09-23-2012, 02:45 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I got that map from a very biased pro-minorities EU website.

I never knew that Andalousians were a minority, lol.
They aren't. Well, there's no minority on Spain. Only nationalisms. They have representation on Catalonia, Basque Country, Galicia and Canarias. Andalusia has some pathetic party, like Valencia, but they never get anything. The rest of the regional parties (Asturias, Cantabria, Navarra...) aren't nationalists.
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  #59  
Old 09-25-2012, 06:36 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #60  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:39 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Referendums: they exist.

See how we had a referendum and got independence. No big civil wars, no secession conflicts. Just a referendum and a couple of meetings of the former Soivet Republics' leaders.

Now, the Asian republics, on the other hand, had nasty wars for territory.

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I'd also like to provide you with a map of all of Europe's supposed "minorities". Imagine if they all wanted independence, Europe would be a fucking mess:

Nobody cares about us Eastern Europe.

Also, strange map. Why is there a giant Catalonia that includes Valencia and Mallorca, instead of, say, a giant Aragon, if one really wants to separate the east from Castille-Leon? Why did Normandy suddenly get a minority, but Burgundy didn't? The Rusyns of Western Galicia and the Belarusians of Podlasia has long since been relocated from their homelands by the Poles to the former German territories Poland got thanks to Stalin. Szekely Land I get (though one might note that the Szekely have been considered a separate "nation" in Medieval), but how does one suddenly declare of Transylvania, Crisana and Banat to be populated by "Hungarians" I don't get.

Though Transnistria is already de-facto independent for twenty years.
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  #61  
Old 09-26-2012, 09:16 AM
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Also, strange map. Why is there a giant Catalonia that includes Valencia and Mallorca, instead of, say, a giant Aragon, if one really wants to separate the east from Castille-Leon?
I suspect that the website that made this has been heavily lobbied by hardcore Catalan separatists, who claim that everywhere where Catalan is spoken is part of Catalan territory.
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  #62  
Old 09-27-2012, 03:52 PM
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Looking at Ahmedinajad's speech at the UN yesterday it's pretty blatantly obvious at this point that he's feeling the squeeze.

Over the past year or so his rhetoric has gone from "Iran is a powerful state that will wipe Israel off the map and crush all who dare oppose us" to "the meanie zionists are oppressing everyone, most notably us."

He's losing and he knows it.
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  #63  
Old 09-27-2012, 05:45 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Iran's position is far from enviable, though some of Ahmadinejad's defeated tone might stem from him being on his last term. He's not very popular in Iran, from what I hear, nor is he particularly liked by the Supreme Leader Khamenei.

There was a power struggle a year or so ago between Ahmadinejad and Khamenei (some folks even ended up getting accused of practicing black magic). The Iranian president has no real power, but the government's popularity took a hit when Khamenei selected Ahmadinejad to be president in 2009 (you may remember the resultant election protests).

Despite Khamenei batting for him, Ahmadinejad kept trying to boost his own power in hopes of becoming some kind of Iranian populist. This is doomed to fail though, as a lot of people really hate Ahmadinejad. Iran's economy is terrible, it's politically isolated, and the government is often (rightly) blamed for this.
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  #64  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:30 PM
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Why did Ukrainians and Belarusians want independence from Russia? Where did their separate identity come from, for example?
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  #65  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:50 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Why did Ukrainians and Belarusians want independence from Russia? Where did their separate identity come from, for example?
Everyone wants independence from Russia.
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  #66  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:56 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Everyone wants independence from Russia.
Who wouldn't want to be Russian?

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  #67  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:34 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
Why did Ukrainians and Belarusians want independence from Russia? Where did their separate identity come from, for example?
It... developed throughout the late Medieval and was cemented by the 19th century intelligentsia?

The old "united" Ruthenia got destroyed by the Golden Horde in 13th century (and the "Ruthenian" Slavic peoples hardly were a united nation anyways). Since then, the Ruthenian lands were divided under different polities, and the locals intermingled with the newcomer peoples.

There were four tendencies:

-Polotsk, Minsk and Vitebsk were largely untouched by the Horde and instead came under control of Auktaitijan Gediminid lords. Intermingle, comes the "Litvin" identity (Slavic, closer to modern Belarusian, but still greatly influenced modern Baltic Lithuanians, who are mostly a mix of Auktaitijans and Samogitians)

-Pskov and Novgorod stayed independent from the Horde and had orientation on the Baltic trade. If not Muscovy's invasion in late 15th century, a separate East Slavic group could arise there.

-Today's west of Russia was turned into vassals of the Horde. After the local principalities, under the leadership of Moscow, broke of the Mongol yoke, they were untied into the Grand Principality, later Tsardom, of Muscovy and started to colonize Asia, christianizing absorbing many of the local finno-ugric tribes (though some survived to this day). That's the basis for the eventual Russian Empire.

-Lands of modern Ukraine was originally united by "The Kingdom of Rus", that was a vassal of the Horde for some time, then broke off, than was divided by the Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then absorbed fully into Poland. One can say that intermingling with Poles and Tatars, local Ruthenians gradually made the basis for modern Ukrainian nation.

Now, the ethnonyms were all different at that time. "Belarusians" got called that by 19th century, same with "Ukrainians" (although the words Ukraine and Bela Rus are quite old, they were names of the land, and not the people).

For example, the Belarusians were either "Litvins" (for the norhtern ones) or "Rusyns" (for the southern ones) - only by 19th century did the meaning of "Lithuania" transplanted of what it means today (a small Baltic country).

Russians were always calling themsleves "Russkiye", and the Tsars of Moscow, in fact, saw themselves as the "re-uniters of Rus". Their neighbours, however, more often than not called them "Muscovites", if only because they had a similar ethnonym, while still feeling themselves different from "The Other".

As for Ukrainians, "Little Russians" was never the popular name, but "Ukrainians" is also a young term (1-3 centuries old). The main name was still "Rusyn" or "Rus'ky l'udy", even by the time of Cossack Hetmante (Bohdan Khmelnitsky even aspired to name himself "The Grand Prince of All Ruthenia", and so did some other hetmans).

Most of the "National Myth" for all three was formed by 19th century writers and historians and developed ever since.

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Who wouldn't want to be Russian?
Would I surprise you if I said that the Eastern Slavs don't get why is there so many of you pesky Englishmen with their own separate states?
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  #68  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:37 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Would I surprise you if I said that the Eastern Slavs don't get why is there so many of you pesky Englishmen with their own separate states?
(It was a joke.)
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  #69  
Old 09-28-2012, 01:14 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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(It was a joke.)
(...so were our sayings.)
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  #70  
Old 09-28-2012, 03:08 AM
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Oh Lord, I never noticed they highlighted Bavaria.
That's hilarious
But look, they got Sorbs on it! Yaaay!
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  #71  
Old 09-28-2012, 06:27 AM
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Thanks for teaching me the history of the Ukrainian identity! I hope to visit the country someday, in which case, where do you recommend should be my priorities?
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  #72  
Old 09-28-2012, 06:27 AM
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I'm going to put this to you as simply as possible. Stay the fuck out of this thread, on pain of suspension. If you want to express hate speech, go to storm front or some other racist board. You do it here, I fuck you up.
So it's not allowed to talk about muslim anti-semitism? That's kinda silly when, for example, most attacks on jews in Malmoe are done by muslims.
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  #73  
Old 09-28-2012, 06:47 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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So it's not allowed to talk about muslim anti-semitism? That's kinda silly when, for example, most attacks on jews in Malmoe are done by muslims.
And most attacks on Palestinians happen by Jews, particularly the fundies!

There's really not much reason to talk about it, especially since certain people start foaming at the mouth and say all Muslims should die or whatever.
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #74  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:47 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Thanks for teaching me the history of the Ukrainian identity! I hope to visit the country someday, in which case, where do you recommend should be my priorities?
That depends. Crimea, especially the southern part of it, is full of interesting things, from Roman ruins and Genoese castles to the "Little Paradise" of Novy Svet, from Crimean Tatar cuisine to walking through the clouds on mount Ai-Petri... Just don't go to Sevastopol - it's full of grumpy bear Russians Well, except for its Chersones part - beatiful Greek/EasternRoman ruins.

Southern Ukraine overall is weird. You get many Soviet-build cities situated around the classic sunflower fields, and there are still Ottoman fortresses standing - take Akkerman for examplle.

But for medieval culture fix you go straight to Western Ukraine. Lots of castles (the nicest, I think, are in Khotyn, Uzhgorod, Kamenets-Podilsky, Lutsk and Mukacheve), and also very unique Hutstul and Rusyn village culture. The centres of Chernivtsi and, especially, Lviv still look all "Austrian Empire".

Kyiv has many interesting things, both of modern and historic value, but I am of the opinion that its main Khreshatik street needs less political manifestations and more cleaners. It feels like some goddamn Italy in summer!

Those interested in Cossacks go to Zaporozhia. You can even travel to the Khortitsa Island on the Dnieper, where the first Sich was located.

As for my home city, Donetsk, I'm not sure what to say. It is practically a "second capital" of modern Ukraine, but its is also a city without much history, created originally as a hometown for workers from certain Welsh businessman's metal plant. Nowadyas it mostly a modern city (except for the outskirts - which are former miner settlements incorporated into the growing city - I swear, going there feels like travelling into some "Soviet Period Park", with grumpy, age-old locals) and a business centre - though also a host to the big football Donbass Arena. Yet SOMEHOW, during Euro 2012, the foreign football fans actually stayed for almost a month, like having some sort of tour in Donetsk Region... I think the... interviewed English fan said it best: "CHEAP BEER". It was so funny seeing an Italian trying to communicated with a marshrutka driver to get to the Azov Sea (which, at the time, suffered from major fish death crisis). But the best, I think, was the eve of England VS France match, when the Englishmen, with beer mugs in their hands, were singing "God Save the Queen", while the French smoked nervously at the corner. Luckily for us Donetsk people, Englands has won that day, and nothing was destroyed.

Oh, and those lovable Russian fans, screaming "ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA! ROSSIYA!" happily when England scored a goal.
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  #75  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:30 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Europe has a lot of really hard to pronounce areas. It's like 2 people sat down one day and went 'lets mash all these letters together and see how they pronounce it 50 years from now'.
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