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View Poll Results: Should Warcraft be rebooted?
Yes 25 78.13%
No 7 21.88%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:50 AM
tufy tufy is offline

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Rebooted, yes. Basically, the only thing I‘d retain are the Draenei, imo the best thing to happen to Warcraft sine W3. Everything else should be scrapped. Wow should never have been split into hard factions. Instead, each civilization should have questlines and stories and players would choose their story. This would have given Blizzard a lot more freedom to dynamically shape worlds, introduce wars and catastrophes without the need to artificially balance factions. As it stands, I haven‘t played Wow since Cataclysm and don‘t plan to ever again.
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  #27  
Old 06-27-2018, 03:05 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tufy View Post
Rebooted, yes. Basically, the only thing I‘d retain are the Draenei, imo the best thing to happen to Warcraft sine W3. Everything else should be scrapped. Wow should never have been split into hard factions. Instead, each civilization should have questlines and stories and players would choose their story. This would have given Blizzard a lot more freedom to dynamically shape worlds, introduce wars and catastrophes without the need to artificially balance factions. As it stands, I haven‘t played Wow since Cataclysm and don‘t plan to ever again.
Nope. Scrap the lot of them in the garbage bin and don't look back.
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  #28  
Old 06-27-2018, 06:54 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I'm completely against a true reboot. Story needs to move forward.

But I'd love to have a soft reboot: a timeskip and world revamp. Many characters dead, many new characters, a new fresh status quo. All that happened happened, but its effects have diminished over time.

BfA could very well lead into a soft reboot.
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  #29  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:00 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Draenei are rooted in a poorly handled retcon and have had lacked personality beyond being unbelievably appeasing, but they're honestly more solid than the Forsaken are (who need to be scrapped or seriously reworked).
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  #30  
Old 06-27-2018, 12:58 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Yes. However, any sort of reboot that would attempt to play it safe (speaking from my own experience) is bound to fail.

Therefore;

1) Niches and specific themes given to a race at its introduction to provide its substance should remain in the hands of the said race no matter what. The humans should keep their niche as the most substantial arcane (in terms of advancement and influence if not history) and Light (in terms of everything, from advancement to history) race, as well as to keep their politics/geopolitics niche. Ie no Draenei coming in and being presented as a race that does the Light for much, much longer and in (at least theory) much a substantial way, or any sort of elves retroactively presented as a beacon of advancement. It is fine for some races (the dwarves, the elves) to reach the Light/spirit of mankind from humanity and handle it in a less substantial way, or for the elves to be historical masters of arcane, but it is not fine to take away things that give a race its substance. Same for the night elves and their specific relation to the Legion (which has been nothing but erased in favor of the Draenei), the dwarves and their relation to the shapers, etc.

2) As clear from the previous point, no Eredar-Draenei, period. The Draenei should be either a shamanistic or naturalist race native to Draenor, with either no connection to the Eredar, or some sort of mystical-religious connection (for example, having a small group of "positive" Eredar existing as a polar opposite to their demonic brethen, searching worlds for promising civilizations and nourishing those, the Draenei ending one of their targets and Velen a "prophet" to them).

3) If there has to be demonic corruption of the orcs, it should be a matter of centuries, not a few years just so Grom Hellscream can have a cooler redemption story. And generally, stuff should take more time, no shortening of the timeline.

4) The Horde as both a construct and an actual organization should predate the corruption and not be tied to the Legion in any way.

5) No Forsaken, period, especially attached to the Horde. Arguably, no merging of Ner'zhul and Arthas either, Ner'zhul should keep his shtick as religious figure uniting different undead culture withing the larger machine known as the Scourge, with Arthas posing as his champion and the king of undead Lordaeron.

6) The Night Elves should have the loss of power and immortality coming from Nordrassil's kaboom properly covered, especially its social and political effects.

7) No windchimes, especially tied to the Light/spirit of mankind.

8) No downplaying of earlier conflicts (the First and Second Wars most notably) just so newer stuff feels cooler.

Could go on, but I think that is enough for the picture.
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  #31  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:00 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Something just occurred to me that would throw a bit of a wrench into this, and my own vote, but I'm curious as to what you all think.

Reading Marthen's post, it occurs to me that people might think of this question taking it as an occasion to rewrite the story in their own image, rather than a statement that there is so much muck and inconsistency that no writer could sort it out in a way that an audience would understand. A couple of people touched on this too, but maybe I can put it a bit bluntly.

Would your answer change to the rebooting question if it came with the caveat that current Blizzard was at the helm, and you could impose no restrictions on what they were able to do?
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  #32  
Old 06-27-2018, 02:28 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Honestly the best idea I've heard for having Forsaken is more or less consolidating them with the Defias and Syndicate as being more of a revolutionary force/anti-Alliance dissident against the pre-Legion order. There'd both be Undead trying to live how they see fit and living revolutionaries who seek to do away with the old regime, redraw the borders, what have you. So Stormwind's Alliance would have to fight both Undead corruption and Human antics in order to reclaim Lordaeron.

Marthen's ideas sound good though. Maybe you should make a thread for them.
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  #33  
Old 06-27-2018, 05:18 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I like what we have now and have come to accept it at this point since this is the reality of things we live in. I don't personally think we'll get a reboot but it's fun to think about alternative ideas and it's one of my favorite things to discuss.

I've started growing more of a liking to the idea of how they would have done the faction make-ups before WC3 came out, with Alliance having Humans, High Elves, Dwarves, and Half-Elves whereas Horde have Orcs, Tauren, Night Elves, and Goblins. Undead being a neutral race and not Forsaken. I've come to think that putting Blood Elves on the Horde was a mistake and that Night Elves would have been far more the type of elves that their fans want if they had been a Horde race instead, the savage brutal elves that kill anyone that stalk in their forest but ally with the Horde after being vouched by the Tauren. The faction dynamic would have been a lot more interesting if it had been kingdoms vs. tribes or civilization vs. naturalist societies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tufy View Post
Rebooted, yes. Basically, the only thing I‘d retain are the Draenei, imo the best thing to happen to Warcraft sine W3. Everything else should be scrapped..
I've grown to really like and accept Draenei, but honestly I gotta say that honor goes more to Worgen, especially since Worgen make a good counterpart to Goblins where they add new themes while still thematically fitting their faction (savage wolf monsters with a regal style vs. cute technological geniuses with a crude style). I respect that Blizzard tried to give Alliance a less human-ish looking race with thematics that are still strongly Alliance-themed, but I think they mishandled it in the way they did it with way too many retcons and forgetting their own lore, plus as mentioned undermining the importance of Humans and their development of Paladinhood. Not to say that I would scrap blue holy tieflings as a concept that could potentially make for a good Alliance race, but I would not have done it in the way that Blizzard did.
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  #34  
Old 06-27-2018, 07:58 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The problem with the Draenei is that they took what could be a neat idea ("Good Eredar") and squandered it. It's really weak that they went to the trouble of introducing them (complete with sloppy retcon) and yet made them as non-Eredar as they could be (LIIIIIGHT instead of Arcane master).
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  #35  
Old 06-28-2018, 02:00 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Something just occurred to me that would throw a bit of a wrench into this, and my own vote, but I'm curious as to what you all think.

Reading Marthen's post, it occurs to me that people might think of this question taking it as an occasion to rewrite the story in their own image, rather than a statement that there is so much muck and inconsistency that no writer could sort it out in a way that an audience would understand. A couple of people touched on this too, but maybe I can put it a bit bluntly.

Would your answer change to the rebooting question if it came with the caveat that current Blizzard was at the helm, and you could impose no restrictions on what they were able to do?
Except for some bits, like the one with Ner'zhul and Arthas not merging, which I specifically attached "arguably" to, what I wrote there is not "my own image", but what I genuinely see as necessary for a reboot to not run into the same pitfalls as the current iteration has.
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  #36  
Old 06-28-2018, 03:23 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Except for some bits, like the one with Ner'zhul and Arthas not merging, which I specifically attached "arguably" to, what I wrote there is not "my own image", but what I genuinely see as necessary for a reboot to not run into the same pitfalls as the current iteration has.
What I'm trying to get at is that we don't choose the writing team. We can decline to support them and that might have an impact, but we here generally would not have the power to direct the world building and the story, which appears to be at least an implied condition of many of the "yes" answers - hence my question.

I'm not trying to cast aspersions on what you feel is necessary, on most of those things I agree with you even. What I am trying to do is to parse a desire for a reboot from dissatisfaction with the current writers. To ask: if you had no control over what Blizzard gave you, would you still ask them to reboot the franchise?
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  #37  
Old 06-29-2018, 08:44 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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I think we might be off on the wrong foot.

I propose that we could try to brainstorm what could and should be done with a reboot. To do so, we can nail down what are some notable problems with the lore now and how to deal with them.

On my end, I see the following as "major problems with lore":

-The "Superhero Wannabes" and overall forcing the Races/Factions to be tools to the tell stories of single characters (see Thrall, Anduin, Sylvanas)
-Over focus on Orcs and Humans even when the franchise has grown beyond it (HUMAN POTENTIAL).
-Poor quality logistics (see genocided groups like the High Elves or Orcs getting unbelievable numbers of troops, the Horde pulling resources out of nowere)
-The faction system and how it impacts the world, the Races relations to each-other, etc. (see Blood Elves and Draenei being apparent mortal enemies even after the new Sunwell)
-The actions of Neutral factions like the Silver Hand.
-The Forsaken.
-Villains like the Legion and Scourge fail to be threatening enough for their claimed threat level
-Races losing flavor and/or losing niches to new Races
-Failed and/or abadoned attempts to make characters/factions more gray/flawed (see the claim of Alliance "racism" and how there's little signs of this outside of cartoon villainy) when combined with characters/factions being made more inoffensive reactive, more ineffectual, more like superheros ala Superman without what could make him work (see the Alliance in Mists of Pandaria).
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  #38  
Old 06-29-2018, 08:58 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Would your answer change to the rebooting question if it came with the caveat that current Blizzard was at the helm, and you could impose no restrictions on what they were able to do?
Not sure if this is a question for everyone, but I am gonna chime in. I would change my answer from yes to no if I could impose no restrictions on what Blizzard wants to do. I have no problem with them being at the helm but without some restrictions the lore would just end up in the same state it is now, albeit different.
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  #39  
Old 06-30-2018, 06:58 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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As for Kyalin's question, obviously the people who want a reboot, myself included, want it helmed by competent writers who love and understand Warcraft. We just want it to turn out good, it doesn't have to be my exact wet dream. And even if done by mediocre writers the lore right now is such a mess that a bit of streamlining to remove inconsistencies, poor writing choices and reinforce the vision they have for Warcraft can only be for the better.
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  #40  
Old 07-01-2018, 09:26 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
To ask: if you had no control over what Blizzard gave you, would you still ask them to reboot the franchise?
Yes, out of pure curiosity. However, without following certain principles, I'd be extremely skeptical of the result.
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  #41  
Old 07-01-2018, 03:25 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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We all know it wouldn't be worthwhile lorewise if the devs did a reboot. What are you asking for?
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  #42  
Old 07-01-2018, 05:00 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline
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If I had to change things, I would rather have Kaelthas alive and go with Tyrande and Malfurion to Kalindor and create an Elf faction. I like nightborne and they could join this new elven coalition. have a faction of the elves is something that I would love
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  #43  
Old 07-01-2018, 10:51 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Council of Nicea for Warcraft Reboot
-Do we keep the Blood Curse for the Orcs? Scrap it?
-Are the Void Lords and Naaru still around?
-How are villain factions like the Scourge and Legion like this time? What's Sargeras' background? What's done with Medivh? Or done with Arthas
-Who's in the Alliance and Horde and who leaves them from across the series? How are the factions characterized? Do we get the squabbling corrupt Alliance of WC3 to Vanilla and keep it?

These come to mind.

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  #44  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:32 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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This grognard mostly likes Marthen's proposed changes.

I don't necessarily want a reboot in my own image, but I would like one with similar sensibilities and core values. One that reduced the retcons, the stylistic and tonal jumps, toned down the superheroism and their idiotic characters and faction leaders, and actually presented a more forward-thinking longterm plan for the franchise that was more than simply one-upmanship of big bad loot pinatas and forced faction conflict. (And possibly one that ended the stupid tribalist mentality of its fanbase.)
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  #45  
Old 07-03-2018, 01:20 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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I say that a reboot should either go all out on having the player factions be superpowers in the WoW era (so no convenient overpowered Neutrals like the Silver Hand) or just make them more fractured with more desertions, joining, etc. (see Lor'themar trying to rejoin the Alliance in MoP).
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  #46  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:12 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I'd keep the Titans, Draenei/eredar and naaru as they are. At most I'd change the Void Lords a bit, but that's it for those big ones.
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  #47  
Old 07-04-2018, 06:53 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
I say that a reboot should either go all out on having the player factions be superpowers in the WoW era (so no convenient overpowered Neutrals like the Silver Hand) or just make them more fractured with more desertions, joining, etc. (see Lor'themar trying to rejoin the Alliance in MoP).
The question is, unless this hypothetical reboot follows a World of Warcraft 2, does there need to be a World of Warcraft era?
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  #48  
Old 07-04-2018, 10:21 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Unless it stops at WCIII I don't see how there wouldn't. Obviously it being a different genre without the game devs means it can avoid the mistakes of RoC to actual WoW (Forsaken, Night Elves being Alliance only to not even be key sidekicks, Ner'zhul being killed in a novel, over focus on Stormwind, etc.).
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  #49  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:10 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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By a World of Warcraft era, I mean an era that is set a few years after Warcraft III and crafted so that PCs have stuff to do and many moments to shine.
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  #50  
Old 07-04-2018, 11:55 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Well in that case I guess you can set whatever happens after WCIII a century later like the devs considered. As for PCs, it's not as if feats like killing Onyxia or cleaning out the Scarlet Crusade haven't been granted to actual characters. Which I imagine leads into a different problem ("Superheroism").
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