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  #126  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:14 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Alliance has repeatedly worked with or tolerated Undead who weren't hostile (see those Forsaken who tried to defect back in Vanilla or Lunar Festival Elders). And nobody has told me when this mass rejection of Forsaken by their Human neighbors happened or how the Alliance was supposed to prevent it.

Forsaken are honestly one of the worst things TFT to to Vanilla WoW brought to the setting this side of Alliance Night Elves.
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  #127  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:22 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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The Alliance has repeatedly worked with or tolerated Undead who weren't hostile (see those Forsaken who tried to defect back in Vanilla or Lunar Festival Elders). And nobody has told me when this mass rejection of Forsaken by their Human neighbors happened or how the Alliance was supposed to prevent it.

Forsaken are honestly one of the worst things TFT to to Vanilla WoW brought to the setting this side of Alliance Night Elves.
This book really treats the Alliance as though it's never interacted with any undead in a non-hostile manner ever and that was another thing that bothered me. Even if you're going to ignore things like Lunar Festival Elders, Vanilla Defectors, or Garithos and whatnot, which could be forgiven for most lore fans to not be familiar with, what about freaking Death Knights? Thassarian was a Death Knight and an Alliance theater commander for light's sake. And that's to say nothing about how player Death Knights are given places of honor that any other player character is given.
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  #128  
Old 07-04-2018, 02:35 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I base my views on the evidence, and this is the first concrete evidence of "humans with skin conditions" we've gotten so far, although it's still really hard to square with the Forsaken's actions as a whole unless you assume ignorance of the details of almost everything on the part of Forsaken civilians, which is sort of a hard sell considering how many shitty things the Forsaken do right out in the open in the Undercity.

Another criticism I'd have of the book I guess is also that the impact or importance of undeath itself is muddied even further. It essentially says that the impact that undeath has on a person "varies" from nothing to everything, which may as well be saying it has no impact at all.



Here's the thing though; do they believe that on the basis of factual reality or do they believe that based on Sylvanas' totalitarian information control? The King of Stormwind and the Queen of Lordaeron have essentially welcomed them with open arms at this point, and most Forsaken may be unaware of just how horrible Sylvanas has been to humanity.

If the information barrier evaporated, and they were able to see the truth, then if they are "humans with skin conditions" the vast majority of them would almost certainly defect. That's what scared Sylvanas to the point that she carried out a massacre on her own people at the end of this book. In her own words, she can't allow them to hope, to know the truth, because that spells the end of her rule.
I suppose a great deal of that would depend on how the reign of the Banshee Queen ends.
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  #129  
Old 07-04-2018, 03:09 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
This book really treats the Alliance as though it's never interacted with any undead in a non-hostile manner ever and that was another thing that bothered me. Even if you're going to ignore things like Lunar Festival Elders, Vanilla Defectors, or Garithos and whatnot, which could be forgiven for most lore fans to not be familiar with, what about freaking Death Knights? Thassarian was a Death Knight and an Alliance theater commander for light's sake. And that's to say nothing about how player Death Knights are given places of honor that any other player character is given.
Accepting the claim of Alliance hostililty towards Undead independent of threat makes Alliance Death Knights even worse. All they had going for them to be accepted into Alliance militaries is Varian saying so and Tirion (traitor).
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  #130  
Old 07-04-2018, 10:08 PM
Krainz Krainz is online now

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I base my views on the evidence, and this is the first concrete evidence of "humans with skin conditions" we've gotten so far, although it's still really hard to square with the Forsaken's actions as a whole unless you assume ignorance of the details of almost everything on the part of Forsaken civilians, which is sort of a hard sell considering how many shitty things the Forsaken do right out in the open in the Undercity.

Another criticism I'd have of the book I guess is also that the impact or importance of undeath itself is muddied even further. It essentially says that the impact that undeath has on a person "varies" from nothing to everything, which may as well be saying it has no impact at all.



Here's the thing though; do they believe that on the basis of factual reality or do they believe that based on Sylvanas' totalitarian information control? The King of Stormwind and the Queen of Lordaeron have essentially welcomed them with open arms at this point, and most Forsaken may be unaware of just how horrible Sylvanas has been to humanity.

If the information barrier evaporated, and they were able to see the truth, then if they are "humans with skin conditions" the vast majority of them would almost certainly defect. That's what scared Sylvanas to the point that she carried out a massacre on her own people at the end of this book. In her own words, she can't allow them to hope, to know the truth, because that spells the end of her rule.
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It essentially says that the impact that undeath has on a person "varies" from nothing to everything, which may as well be saying it has no impact at all.

Nah.
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