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Old 07-26-2013, 12:45 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Default Wrathion, the Brat Prince

The thread title says it all.

It is interesting how Wrathion's chracter has developed since the beginning of MoP.

At the first he seems to be quite wise and concerned for Azeroth. But beginning with Chapter 3 of the Legendary Questline we could see more and more how limited his view actually is. The only true power for for him seems to brute force.

This became even more clear with Chapter 4.
Quote:
Xuen says: Tell me, young prince: What is the nature of strength?
Wrathion says: The power to crush one's foe. That is strength.
Xuen says: You speak only in terms of one's enemies.
Wrathion says: Certainly, strength can benefit one's allies.
Xuen says: How so?
Wrathion says: ...by using it crush their enemies!
Also it became more obvious that he wasn't really learning from his experiences in Pandaria.

Quote:
Wrathion says: Excellent work with the celestials. Can you believe how chatty they were?
Wrathion says: I just wanted them to hand us our reward, but they were just, "talk talk talk talk talk."
This became even more clear in Chapter 5.

Quote:
Lorewalker Cho says: Wait wait wait - let me make sure I get the story right.
Lorewalker Cho says: Pandaren will tell this tale for generations!
Wrathion says: It starts with a hero.
Lorewalker Cho says: An outsider, from beyond the mists!
Wrathion says: Conquering a strange new land!
Lorewalker Cho says: Must we use the word, "Conquer?"
Wrathion says: Venturing into forgotten vaults...
Lorewalker Cho says: Mantid and mogu alike were brought low by the hero's fury.
Wrathion says: Their power and wisdom seized for a greater glory!
Lorewalker Cho says: When war came to Pandaria's shores, our hero was ready.
Wrathion says: A faction standard-bearer, beloved by the people and feared by their foes.
Lorewalker Cho says: Even the mighty Thunder King fell before our champion's might.
Wrathion says: One by one the secrets of an ancient empire were laid bare.
Lorewalker Cho says: Knowledge uncovered for the benefit of the world.
Wrathion says: POWER acquired for WAR and CONQUEST!
Lorewalker Cho says: Let us stop a moment - what kind of hero are we talking about?
Wrathion says: An agent of destruction, forged by my will to forever change the face of Azeroth.
Wrathion says: Behold! Latent Titan power, imbued with my own draconic essence, tempered by the wisdom of the Pandaren celestials.
Wrathion says: Overwhelming power. Use it to heal or to destroy! To protect or annihilate!
Lorewalker Cho says: My friend, please think carefully about the legacy you will leave behind.
Wrathion says: Come to me, champion! Collect your well-earned reward!
Lorewalker Cho says: How will the story end?
Wrathion says: There is only one way to find out.
At the end, when he hears the outcome of the Siege of Orgrimmar he finally shows his true colours.

Quote:
Wrathion says: Idiot King!
Wrathion stomps on a bag of grain to the left of the stairs, then walks over to the table by Tong.
Wrathion says: Fools! Imbeciles!
Wrathion smashes a glass against the wall, then walks to the western exit.
Wrathion says: A complete waste!

Wrathion walks to the eastern entrance and breathes fire out the door, before returning to the sack of grain.
Plus Wrathion's dialog with the players and Tong, were he burns the Inn and flys away offended after the Pandaren tried to lecture him what a stupid brat he actually is.

This was the moment which reminded me at this.

Quote:
Anduin Wrynn says: Are you lecturing me? You're what - two years old?
Wrathion says: Two in DRAGON years. It is your move.
Despite his human appearence, Wrathion is only a whelp. A fact we often forget, but are reminded of when he changes into his dragon form.

In fact, as I already said in the other thread, the end of the Wrathion MoP storyline can be summarized this way:



With all his powers, Wrathion is still a child. A very dangerous child.

Last edited by Vineyard; 04-26-2018 at 09:11 AM..
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:15 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/07/21/kn...s-of-wrathion/

I love how Wrathion is just a toddler with super powers. He's a good example of why you shouldn't give young children weapons.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:19 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Why do you blame it on just age and not because he's a bla-

God damn it.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:29 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Why do you blame it on just age and not because he's a bla-

God damn it.
Why? What's God damn it for? I doubt it has anything to do with him being a black dragon, because he was purged of corruption by the Eye of the Watchers. The only other option is because he's a spoiled toddler.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:31 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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And still as a character he is leaps and bounds better than certain others I can name.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:32 PM
Malygos Malygos is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Why do you blame it on just age and not because he's a bla-

God damn it.
It's because he's a black dragon.
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Old 07-26-2013, 01:46 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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It's because he's a black dragon.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:16 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Nyarlathotep jr.

or is he Damien Thorn?
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:39 PM
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I like him. He has two paths before him, and it's very feasible to see him go down either one. On the one had, he wants to do good. He doesn't want to be his father. But on the other, he IS the son of Deathwing. The anger, rage, and lust for power are in his blood.

I think he is a little like Grom Hellscream, or even ironically Garrosh. Deep down he is trying to do the right thing, but he takes it a little too far. Actually, that might be a good analogy. He can either become Grom - make a mistake but then redeem himself. Or he can become Garrosh - sucumb to his bloodlust and ultimately be destroyed by it.


Actually, at this point his visions of a future calamedy that he's been trying to stop may ultimately end up being caused by him in the first place.

But I want to say that I think (or hope) even if (when) he screws up, he might learn something and redeem himself in the end.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:55 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
The anger, rage, and lust for power are in his blood.
Wasn't purifying the egg done to prevent exactly that?

Random Fun Fact: he looks pretty scared when the Ox summons a construct in his father's image. Like, genuinly scared shitless.
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:57 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
Random Fun Fact: he looks pretty scared when the Ox summons a construct in his father's image. Like, genuinly scared shitless.
Well he did say Deathwing is the only dragon he's afraid of.
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Old 07-26-2013, 03:16 PM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
Wasn't purifying the egg done to prevent exactly that?

Random Fun Fact: he looks pretty scared when the Ox summons a construct in his father's image. Like, genuinly scared shitless.
The corruption of the Old Gods was purified out of him. Doesn't mean he didn't inherit some of his father's personality and temperament. I mean, he won't go selling out the planet to the Old Gods, but he certainly can make stupid mistakes that play into their hands by rushing into things too quickly or getting a little too greedy for power.

Edit: Also, seriously, like the first thing he does is murder every Black Dragon he can find. Yeah, they were corrupted and bad, but he was a little too eager to kill them.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:10 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Wrathion is also right though. The Alliance are morons for not capitalizing on the Horde's defeat and Tong is a moron for trying to mask that with ancient Chinese non-wisdom.
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You are right Fojar.
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Old 07-26-2013, 06:34 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Nyarlathotep jr.

or is he Damien Thorn?
My god if Wrathion stays a major character and we see his Whelp form more.. we need a updated model like now haha. I like the fact he can be a brat at times but at others be very wise... Its just him getting worked up about the situation he thought out in his head (plus he is young and its to be expected). I never thought Blizzard would show his age much but they did but if he does it all the time then it will just be a pain in the arse .
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Old 07-26-2013, 07:28 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Wrathion is also right though. The Alliance are morons for not capitalizing on the Horde's defeat and Tong is a moron for trying to mask that with ancient Chinese non-wisdom.
Tell that to the monarchy.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:05 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Wrathion is also right though. The Alliance are morons for not capitalizing on the Horde's defeat and Tong is a moron for trying to mask that with ancient Chinese non-wisdom.
And Garrosh is a moron for alienating most of his allies and bringing ruin upon his Horde, despite having achieved the apex of power not seen since the end of the First War.

He really is the Anti-Doomhammer.
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Old 07-26-2013, 10:16 PM
Nindoriel Nindoriel is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Why? What's God damn it for? I doubt it has anything to do with him being a black dragon, because he was purged of corruption by the Eye of the Watchers. The only other option is because he's a spoiled toddler.
He's still manipulative, and that's not because he's a kid.
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Old 07-26-2013, 11:18 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Wrathion is also right though. The Alliance are morons for not capitalizing on the Horde's defeat and Tong is a moron for trying to mask that with ancient Chinese non-wisdom.
Really? He's right about accepting as necessity the heinously gigantic casualties he's assuming the Alliance will suffer in the process of squashing the rest of the Horde after Orgrimmar, likely because he in effect figures that conquering Azeroth and enslaving the Horde races will account for such losses when the Legion comes?

He's angry for Varian not capitalizing on the Horde's defeat to expressly subjugate and enslave it, creating the unified force he desires to protect Azeroth. Even if Varian capitalized enough to leverage demands concerning the return of Alliance lands taken by the Horde - itself something of great potential worth to the Alliance, and all other points aside, at least demanded cessation of aggressive actions should be demanded - Wrathion would have a huge problem with the Horde races still existing in any form that didn't involve being forcibly assimilated by the Alliance at sword-point.

Note the emphasis he places on the Horde's players over their Warchief, while keeping Varian in the limelight alongside Alliance players. Once he decides Garrosh is doomed to fail, he probably loves the idea of the Horde rebellion, because by turning the player-represented heroes against Garrosh instead of having them defending Orgrimmar's walls for their Warchief, it would preserve the one part of the Horde he already attributed the greatest value and cared to keep around: its champions, whose power could be absorbed into the victorious Alliance once their faction was crushed.

Because make no mistake about it: his reaction indicates that he wants Varian not to just protect and secure the Alliance against future Horde aggression, but to conquer Azeroth and either enslave or eliminate anyone or anything that compromises the cementing of a united defense by refusing to bow to the Alliance's dominance. That's what forcibly uniting the world under one banner against the Burning Legion would entail, as Wrathion's intended outcome would have no use for a subjugated Horde unless they could then be forced to fight for the victorious Alliance. He wants Varian to do what Garrosh was trying to do, which would include hypothetically doing all the worst things Garrosh or even the Forsaken have done ("worst" as in monstrous, not in how they reflect on tactical or diplomatic competence) if it means saving Azeroth in the long run, and as long as those things can be done without damaging the unity of the Alliance the way Garrosh's use of them managed to drive wedges in the Horde's solidarity.

Remember, if Wrathion's reasoning is right, one must take into account that he was backing Garrosh based upon that same reasoning. The same Garrosh who dropped a mana bomb on Theramore, who initiated the invasion of Gilneas, who endorsed Sylvanas' behavior by not enforcing his ban on the Blight Plague, and who essentially resolved to either drive away or exterminate any and all Alliance races that dared to continue threatening or hindering the spread of the Horde's power. The same Garrosh who, had he won, would have seen the Alliance races diminished to a state of slavery or worse. After all, such a conclusion would meet the criteria of a united Azeroth, shaped by a single vision - Wrathion's vision - under the iron boot of a single conquering world power whom he could then likely manipulate and control.

Given his ultimate goals, there's no reason to think Wrathion has any problem whatsoever with the things the Horde has done to the Alliance; he pretty much says himself that he switched sides expressly because he concluded that in alienating the other horde races, Garrosh had sabotaged himself and couldn't win any more.

In that regard, Wrathion has no qualms with Garrosh's crimes and misdeeds beyond their detrimental effects on his public image. Wrathion's issue is with Garrosh's inability to convincingly sell those misdeeds to the rest of the Horde's races. In a way, one might consider that to someone like the manipulative Wrathion, the worst crime Garrosh committed by far was failing at being smooth enough to manipulate the entire Horde into accepting his vision.

And so, Wrathion will completely misjudge the Alliance, and Varian in particular. He, like so many other prideful and domineering beings of great power, backed Varian because he thought Varian thought the way he did. In all likelihood, he probably thought Varian was just like Garrosh, only possessed of the necessary guile and cunning to keep the rest of the Alliance obedient and trusting of his methods and goals.

It's kind of funny looking back on his 5.0-5.3 dialogue, and seeing how decisive and cocksure Wrathion pretends to be. He plays the part of the all-knowing puppet master quite convincingly, even though in 5.4 it will apparently turns out that he's thoroughly misjudging the motives and inclinations of his own puppets. And in the end his choice of which faction to support boiled down to which faction's leader could best "sell" his goals to the rest of the faction. Just like he chooses those champions who only wield great power, but also buy into his vision and whose heroism and deeds have lent them credibility of their factional peers. "A faction standard bearer, beloved by the people" indeed; a champion whose loyalties and word are highly valued among chieftains and braves, lords and peasants alike, and so who could sway a great many to a cause when the time comes.

His whole attitude oozes with the belief that he considers himself a master manipulator, and a large part of choosing a side likely stemmed from which faction's leader he thought was similarly skilled at snowballing those around them and bringing others around to their way of seeing things. He sees Varian as a conqueror who's just more savvy than Garrosh, who's cleverly sold himself as a uniter and a liberator while Garrosh has increasingly allowed himself to become mired in the trappings of a divisive tyrant.

I know it'll raise the hackles of some Anduin-hating folks, but I find it a kind of interesting contrast to see Anduin - who in spite of his convictions tends to express them rather naively and with measured uncertainty at times - sitting across from Wrathion, who's outwardly smarmy, adamant and completely certain of himself despite unwittingly miscalculating in the most important part of his plans. Anduin wants to see Alliance and Horde defending Azeroth side-by-side, while Wrathion just wants to see a conquering Alliance or Horde defending Azeroth and he doesn't care who it is beyond which side proves strong enough to crush the other and eliminate any potential for divisiveness.

Last edited by ARM3481; 07-26-2013 at 11:24 PM..
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:16 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Arm makes a good point.
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Old 07-27-2013, 06:20 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Don't get me wrong, I truly do love the character (of course Stewy is one of my favorite characters in that show too, so go figure), but a part of me can't help but compare him to player characters (which is why I suppose players relate to him so well and agree with him):

-He wants to see absolute victory.

-He's all about the loot.

-He doesn't particularly care about quest text, just wants the quest reward and to be done.

On the other hand, I could see him being the next Garrosh, although I hope they don't hit him quite as hard with the villain bat.
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Old 07-27-2013, 07:41 AM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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Quote:
He's right about accepting as necessity the heinously gigantic casualties he's assuming the Alliance will suffer in the process of squashing the rest of the Horde after Orgrimmar, likely because he in effect figures that conquering Azeroth and enslaving the Horde races will account for such losses when the Legion comes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Paris_%281814%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...28c._149_BC%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_...a_and_Nagasaki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive


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The same Garrosh who dropped a mana bomb on Theramore,
oh jeez, he bombed a military outpost. Someone call the Light and get help!


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who initiated the invasion of Gilneas, who endorsed Sylvanas' behavior by not enforcing his ban on the Blight Plague, and who essentially resolved to either drive away or exterminate any and all Alliance races that dared to continue threatening or hindering the spread of the Horde's power.
Not the best plan, but he is thinking with realpolitik and knows that being with the Forsaken merits some benefits, but also that many will be adamantly opposed to he Horde. Rather than get rid of a still useful ally, exploit them to their fullest extent.

Take notice no race ever went up and said 'Hey, that's wrong!' when the Orcs were being annihilated and enslaved. They likely saw it as justice. And, to Garrosh, he shouldn't really care about those who stand in the way of the Horde.

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The same Garrosh who, had he won, would have seen the Alliance races diminished to a state of slavery or worse.
And the Alliance wouldn't do it? Do human monarchies somehow have better moral standings because they have a religion called the Light?

Yeah, and the Jedi are totally against slavery dooood.





Quote:
And so, Wrathion will completely misjudge the Alliance, and Varian in particular. He, like so many other prideful and domineering beings of great power, backed Varian because he thought Varian thought the way he did. In all likelihood, he probably thought Varian was just like Garrosh, only possessed of the necessary guile and cunning to keep the rest of the Alliance obedient and trusting of his methods and goals.
What makes Garrosh different from Varian. Tell me how a green dictator is different from a pink one.

Is the Alliance some type of progressive-good-willed state? Is it, really? Then, by all accounts, so is Napoleon's Empire. Brought order and prosperity and a new reign of laws. After the Wars, of course, but hey. They needed to happen.

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It's kind of funny looking back on his 5.0-5.3 dialogue, and seeing how decisive and cocksure Wrathion pretends to be. He plays the part of the all-knowing puppet master quite convincingly, even though in 5.4 it will apparently turns out that he's thoroughly misjudging the motives and inclinations of his own puppets.
That doesn't really mean he's not a "master manipulator". I'll useKreia - Kreia is basically mad at the PC for not filling to her ideal sense of what the PC is to be. Someone to kill the will of the Force. In either case you fail her, but even after her smack down of you or the Jedi - she still manipulates the shit out of things.

Leading her former student to Telos to be killed by you and the Forces of the Republic, breaking her other student to serve as a test for you, using your allies against you - all while you come to her. Using their feelings and emotions over the exile , and even utilizing another character (Hanhar) to subvert your party. She's been manipulating everyone since the start, and never stops until she dies.

The very fact things didn't turn out for her concerning the PC does not mean she isn't a manipulator - it merely means she sees you have failed her. But, in the end, you still do everything she wants. Even if you don't realize it (the death of the Sith Lords (Her, Sion, Nihilus), continuing the Academy or going to search for Revan..reconnecting with the Force and having a better understanding of yourself. And, finally, making your decision without regret.).

Wrathion is no Kreia, not even by a long-shot, but this outburst is because of the failure you have invested something into for a long while, or invested so much into. He rages because he can't believe he made the choice he did (and none of the other military-savvy people or Alliance-savvy people can either). Varian is a fool, and apparently has eiher short-term memory loss or is going to the whims of a child who is comparable to Joffrey or Nero in terms of skill.

Imagine that - Tiberus bowing to Nero's demands. Ha.







Quote:
I know it'll raise the hackles of some Anduin-hating folks, but I find it a kind of interesting contrast to see Anduin - who in spite of his convictions tends to express them rather naively and with measured uncertainty at times - sitting across from Wrathion, who's outwardly smarmy, adamant and completely certain of himself despite unwittingly miscalculating in the most important part of his plans. Anduin wants to see Alliance and Horde defending Azeroth side-by-side, while Wrathion just wants to see a conquering Alliance or Horde defending Azeroth and he doesn't care who it is beyond which side proves strong enough to crush the other and eliminate any potential for divisiveness.
But, Anduin's idea is pure-shit. Just as from ignoring the political history and the fact they are at war against each other - how would the Horde and Alliance actually fair as two sovereign organizations working with each other?

I take the example of the "Grand Alliance" (US, UK, and USSR) whom were working closely with each other and while had disagreemens - were usually settled, or to be settled, with Commissions and Advisories to make sure this shit woul never happen again.

Then we get the goddamn Cold War through the West not entirely liking the de-militarized, de-industrialized and neutral aspect of the plan for Germany. They were also hesitant to give the industries from the West to the USSR as per the deal to make sure just reparations wouldn't weigh down on Germany too much.

The USSR was constantly feeling betrayed due to the fact it was staying within the deals (e.g. Greece situation, though Tito was pissed off by this and did his own little thing), and their attempts at reconciliation usually worked to an extent (Berlin 'Blockade' did force the powers to reconvene to a Council of Foreign Ministers meeting to renounce the London Communique to form a Federal Republic of Germany out of Western Sectors. It, got no where as the West wouldn't budge and then we get a new FRG and it's new currency, damagin the already damaged economic situation of the East).

But, pardon me - that's modern. Let's look at the Crusaders and Soldiers of Baseilia Rhomanion. Helping the Komnenoi retake cities, and also pushing out those damn moslems. But, when there were successes, there was a sense of ambition. Why give back the Principlaities and cities to the Byzantines? They can't seem to hold their own, and they betrayed the Church! Why can't I become King of my own lands? And then a nice-deal went spiraling down into a moss-pit of Byzantine and Crusader intrigues along side the actual war against the Caliphates.

Why should the Horde and Alliance Alliance be anymore successful than others in our own reality that had far more in common and, better yet, were not at war with each other. It'd make no sense, and already this edges me with he complete and utter militarily-baffling move of giving the capital back to the enemy without getting anything in return.

The Prussians had the right idea of forcing your demands on a defeated enemy (Alasce-Loraine) and then giving the capital to the battered enemy. That's the whole fucking point.

Will I say there isn' a nice contrast? No, there is an appreciative contrast - but his military tactia would make it easily to pile-drive him if Napoleon, Julius, or even Grant or Lee were here. There are just some things and can't do, and no fucking pretty-boy Prince will make a difference.

I'd say the contrast is between two people whom, while knowing nothing of war and how to truly wage it, do have basic contrasting ideologies. One of peace to the sense of naivety, and the other of aggression and domination to the sense of naivety.

Plot convenience will get you no where of describing Anduin's character anymore than Obi wan supposedly being the calm and collective guy jumping out the window and Anakin not doing it.

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Also it became more obvious that he wasn't really learning from his experiences in Pandaria.
Leave your Kung Fu Panda 2 philosophical bullshit at the door, where it can be in at least decent movie that still had one irk of simply forgiving the genocide of your people to achieve peace.
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  #22  
Old 07-27-2013, 08:12 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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And the Alliance wouldn't do it?
Uuuuhhh... yes? As evidenced by the end of SoO, no the Alliance wouldn't have the Horde diminished to slaves or worse.

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What makes Garrosh different from Varian. Tell me how a green dictator is different from a pink one.
It's different because Varian is NOT a dictator?

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Originally Posted by Lord Eliphas View Post
Is the Alliance some type of progressive-good-willed state? Is it, really? Then, by all accounts, so is Napoleon's Empire. Brought order and prosperity and a new reign of laws. After the Wars, of course, but hey. They needed to happen.
What are you on about? I just want to ask you one question: are you familiar with Wrathion's epilogue dialogue which indicates how the siege of Orgrimmar has ended? No one enslaves anyone.
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  #23  
Old 07-27-2013, 08:32 AM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Something I'd really like to see would be Anduin taking Wrathion to see Velen who helps to make him understand that the world doesn't need to be conquered to fight united.

Could be used as a lead in to the Burning Legion expansion, whenever that comes through.

Reasons:

-Wrathion seems to have a genuine respect for ancient powers, what really sticks in my mind is how genuinely interested he sounded in seeing both Chi-ji and Xuen and that he honestly answered all of the Celestials questions with the best his knowledge, wisdom and age have granted him. (I think it would be fun to see him interact with the other Aspects, could be a foster parent/older brother with Kalec sorta thing)

-His gift of prophecy haunts him and while future sight seems to be the baby's first magic boon of Azeroth no one has it with the clarity or is affected as deeply by it as Wrathion...except Velen who has long since learned to deal with tragic visions and still retain hope.

-Wrathion above all loves Azeroth deeply, that much is certain and I'm not sure if it made it to live but there was that little bit of lore about Velen preparing to flee the planet at one point. Something like this would help to connect him to the world and maybe decide that his people can feel safe in once again calling somewhere home so it's good for both characters and involves the Draenei who desperately need a connection to Azeroth and it's conflicts to be involved in the story.
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  #24  
Old 07-27-2013, 08:54 AM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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Uuuuhhh... yes? As evidenced by the end of SoO, no the Alliance wouldn't have the Horde diminished to slaves or worse.
Well, of course not for MoP.

Behold the new class! Slaves. It's like dailies, except every-quest is a daily.

By all logical function of what the alliance is (a conglomerate of Monarchies against the Horde for various reasons) - they'd have no reason to not do the same thing the Horde would do if they were victorious.

This being the Alliance that came from the Victory of WC2. That enslaved what Orcs they could, and had camps specifically for them.

Varian held no single-tear for them, or Thrall's servitude. Nor was there any mention of this when Thrall begins to fully have communication with the Alliance.

Must be awkward talking with former conquerors and slave-owners.


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It's different because Varian is NOT a dictator?
Tell me how. A dictator is a person whom has the central authority to dictate - and his dictates (say edicts though a bit more forcefully and not needed to be discussed about) are followed to the mark.

Hence why Monarchs and Emperors are dictators, but not all dictators are Monarchs and Emperors.

Whom gets the leisure and democratic-action to fully discuss, revoke, and confront Varian on these issues? The Democratic Republic of Nobody?

Similar as to how the only way to confront Garrosh is to either be his adviser, or go like Baine's father and duel the guy (unless you're Vol'jin and can get away with threatening him) - you can't really confront or go against Varian unless you're Anduin.

That's it. You Anduin? Shut the fuck up. Anduin? oh yes, Anduin, what must I do to have some clarification that you love me and that I am a good father??



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What are you on about? I just want to ask you one question: are you familiar with Wrathion's epilogue dialogue which indicates how the siege of Orgrimmar has ended? No one enslaves anyone.
Yes, I am so familiar with it as I am very disgruntled over the Tong-Kung-Fu-Panda 2 imported philosophical bullshit.

My complaints are in the reality of how the Alliance couldn't do this as well if we're going to say Garrosh will enslave and destroy everything but the Alliance just couldn't do that. (And not because of incompetence)

Wrathion wouldn't care either way - as to the Alliance winning or th Horde. So long as the side was on "his" side - and he has still in full contact with that side. The one problem (and I am disgruntled at this) is informing the fucking Horde players that he was backing the Alliance.

Just tell them you were fully against Garrosh, and it just so happened the Alliance was willing to accept aid as he was backing you to overthrowing Garrosh. Regus Christ.

But, if we are to go on the fact of Wrathion being mostly apathetic toward the end goals so long as United Front (via World unification by forceful means) of Azeroth was maintained - why wouldn't the Alliance do this? They did it before, and had no problems with it besides the massive slave revolts. And, typically, they'd only entirely give up on it if it became an political-detriment more so than an economic benefit.

(See the main reason why rich white folks in the North were against slavery, and why former slave owners like Benjie were against it. Ain't no humanitarian bullshit here)

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Something I'd really like to see would be Anduin taking Wrathion to see Velen who helps to make him understand that the world doesn't need to be conquered to fight united.
Why.

He'll figure that out on his own, don't fucking shoe-horn Anduin into everything involved with Wrathion's development.
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  #25  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:18 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Why should the Horde and Alliance Alliance be anymore successful than others in our own reality that had far more in common and, better yet, were not at war with each other.
Because this is fantasy and if they don't the franchise ends, so yeah.
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