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  #51  
Old 05-12-2009, 07:02 PM
Farsider Farsider is offline

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Originally Posted by Deathwing View Post
Ok I have some questions.

1. How the heck are there so many Ogres on Kalimdor? Did they came by boat before Thrall led the orcs to Kalimdor, when they left the horde? Or came between the events of the founding of durotar and the destruction of the world tree?
The ogres were somehow responsible for the greatest warships of the Horde during the Second War (the ogre juggernauts) so they likely built them themselves (this sort of forced heavy labor seems to be perfectly fitting for the Old Horde) and probably crewed them as well, given that the orcs were said to be almost universally averse to water, and wouldn't know how to sail the vessels as well as the ogres that built them.

After the Second War, the fleets of the Old Horde all vanished, and there's no real indication that the Alliance navy somehow sank them all, especially after the walloping that they got in the early and middle stages of the war. The orcs were fairly united in their retreat to Blackrock and then the Dark Portal, and we don't really have any indication that they cared to bring the ogres with them.

So, toss in some extrapolation and conjecture, and it seems to follow that the ogre crews of the biggest Horde vessels pointed their ships to the open seas when they saw the war effort go all to hell, and many of them seemingly got lucky and arrived in Southern Kalimdor. Their vessels could have been broken down upon arrival to use the materials for other purposes, or they might have just been broken down and washed away over the past quarter century, leaving no trace of their arrival.


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Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
Why do packages of three come in packages of eight?

And who would win in a war, the Alliance or the Horde?

Do Forsaken deserve to die?

And was Garithos a good guy deep down?

Did the Forsaken have a right to kill him; the Grand Marshal, and then be pissed off that the Alliance is hostile?

Do the blood elves really belong in the Horde, their former enemy? Are Alleria and Vereesa right to lead Alliance factions contra the Horde?
1: Because you touched yourself as a child

2: Neither, the war would stalemate before there was a decisive victor, barring some outside influence changing the balance of power.

3: They're already dead, and most of them probably didn't deserve to die in the first place. Barring a few extreme cases, the zombies aren't all that much more evil than the commoners of any other race, they just have a different taste in aesthetics and a healthy disrespect for death

4: No, Garithos was a bastard through and through. He deserved to die just as much as any major war criminal in history...moreso, maybe, because he was a traitor to his own cause by intentionally sabotaging the productive efforts of necessary and loyal allies.

5: They had as much right to kill Garithos as you or I have the right to kill any mass murderer (so, it's a matter of philosophy and politics, not a fair question) and the Alliance was pissed at them regardless. If the people of Stormwind and Ironforge even knew that Garithos was out there (unlikely) and if they knew how he died (even more unlikely) they would probably have attributed it to the Scourge, not some breakaway band of potential allies.

Not even the Scarlet Crusade or Argent Dawn seemed to know or care about Garithos and his short-lived, minor failed insurgency. In fact, if anyone knew that Garithos' band was out there, they'd probably be considered traitors for apparently defecting from their duties to the Alliance and joining the demon Detheroc's host, and then later for clearly aligning with what they would view as scourge army under Sylvanas.

The rest of humanity probably would look at Garithos and his band like they were part of the Cult of the Damned, and order that they be killed on sight. They might even silently be grateful that Sylvanas killed the damned dirty traitors so that the alliance wouldn't have to fight them later themselves.

By all appearances, the Alliance's hatred for the Forsaken is due to the fact that the Forsaken are undead. If they needed any more convincing than that, the conquest of Tarren Mill would suffice.

6: Given how many times Italy has changed sides, I'd say that yes, the Belfs are true members of the horde (at least, until they decide not to be)

We don't know what Alleria is doing, but Valeera is not right to lead a faction against the Horde in general, no more than Varian is. It's all right for her to object to the inclusion of the Belfs in Dalaran, but leading a military unit against the people they should be allied with is not acceptable behavior from a moral or military standpoint.
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  #52  
Old 05-13-2009, 03:25 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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There were Ogres in Northrend too, remember mercenaries Arthas hired to burn down the ships? I don't know if they're there in Wrath, but at least in tFT they were.
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  #53  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:17 AM
cenkiss cenkiss is offline

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Why so much Garithos hate?The man fought for humanity and many humans under his command just loved him.He risked his life to save his people while other 'heroes' just ran away leaving those poor people to their own fate.The only thing he did not do well is to love elves.Can't be compared to 'misunderstood' forsaken crimes.
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  #54  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:34 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
Why so much Garithos hate?The man fought for humanity and many humans under his command just loved him.He risked his life to save his people while other 'heroes' just ran away leaving those poor people to their own fate.The only thing he did not do well is to love elves.Can't be compared to 'misunderstood' forsaken crimes.
Garithos would have fought better for humanity if he hadn't fucked up between the Elves, Naga and the Dwarves. The man could have been a hero but [B]Allowed his personal angts/racism ruin everything and thus he got defeated and killed off. He would have been a great hero if he had allowed his grudges to not take over his "good" leadership./B]
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  #55  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:44 AM
cenkiss cenkiss is offline

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He did not take away troops with blood elves because he hated them.He needed them for the front(possibly a hell lot much undead then kael'thas faced).When he won at the front he returned to help the blood elves he hate.He fought legions of undead and won against them.If he hated blood elves he could have just let them die there but he returns.Unlike blood elves,he respects his alliances.
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  #56  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:52 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenkiss View Post
He did not take away troops with blood elves because he hated them.He needed them for the front(possibly a hell lot much undead then kael'thas faced).When he won at the front he returned to help the blood elves he hate.He fought legions of undead and won against them.If he hated blood elves he could have just let them die there but he returns.Unlike blood elves,he respects his alliances.
So he respects the alliance so much he decides to execute the whole race? Honestly this thread isn't for theorycrafting, you can make your own Garithos topic but prepare to get corrected.
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  #57  
Old 05-13-2009, 08:17 AM
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Move the conversation over to one of the three different Garithos conversation threads that've been on-going for weeks. This is a place for quick, simple answers.
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  #58  
Old 05-13-2009, 09:16 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Not to mention you've already made these exact same arguements about Garithos and been pretty well refuted in other threads, but just keep plugging away with the same stuff.
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  #59  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:06 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Are goblins in any way related to the trolls?

As a believer in the Troll>Nelf evolution theory I think goblins can be related to trolls and night elves.

Might be a bit messy written, because I'm running VoA atm...
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  #60  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:13 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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It is theoritized, but no confirmation, even less than about suspected Troll-Night Elf.
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  #61  
Old 05-13-2009, 10:15 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
Are goblins in any way related to the trolls?
Goblins originally were slaves to Jungle Trolls in the island of Kezan, then they found this mineral Kaja'mel which the trolls used for rituals. Luckily the trolls were afraid of caves they made the Goblins mine them, and this had an effect to make them smarter and thus they rebelled.

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As a believer in the Troll>Nelf evolution theory I think goblins can be related to trolls and night elves.
Sure you can but don't just talk about it as an opinion since you have no evidence except pointy ears. =p
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:45 AM
Atomic_Piggy Atomic_Piggy is offline

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Greetings! I was wondering if you could answer a couple of questions for me, for my fanfiction.

First of all, are all death knights volunteers? I always got the feeling that death knights were those who voluntarily joined the Lich King, but considering how glad most of them seem to be in WOTLK when they are freed, I am not sure.

Second of all, excluding the Onslaught, is the Scarlet Crusade pretty much destroyed now?
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2009, 08:53 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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The playable Death Knights were pretty much fallen heroes of the Horde & Alliance, but the ones like Baron Rivendare willingly made an unholy pact with the Lich King for power, also the official description for the death knight heroes in Warcraft 3 was that they were Paladins who went to Northrend to vengeance on the Lich King but the maddening voice of Lich King corrupted them and when they finally arrived to Icecrown, they were offered the unholy pact.

I can't answer your second question as only the end of WoTLK can truly answer your question.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:36 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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1) Were Blood Knights only absorbing Muuru? Why would that have the same effect on them as the other Blood Elves who were absorbing arcane and fel magic? If they were absorbing both holy and fel magic wouldn't they like, blow up maybe?

2) Is there any specific reason that Draenor and Azeroth have some of the same species of animals, or are we just going with the explanation that sizable populations crossed through the portal?

3) Has any lore source ever described an afterlife of any of the religions?
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  #65  
Old 05-16-2009, 01:40 AM
Daiol Daiol is offline

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Quote:
Is there any specific reason that Draenor and Azeroth have some of the same species of animals, or are we just going with the explanation that sizable populations crossed through the portal?
In-game, it's nearly impossible to find a reason why raptors, wind serpents, chimaera, hydra (though these four seem to have fairly specific Outland representations that are probably native species), dimetrodons, wolves, owls, lynx, and crocolisks (the latter two only and inexplicably in the Eco-domes in Netherstorm) are as close as they are. It's almost possible that boars were a Draenor-native species, as they don't appear in any number outside of heavily orc-settled (either now or in times past) areas; of course, the Quillboar and Aggamagan blow that theory out of the water. Wolves might be Draenor only, again except for the stories of the Worgen (told by Ur to be ancient tales among the people). I don't even want to think about Northrend-only species.



Out-of-game, chalk it up to a changing world from Warcraft (I R D&D) to WoW (wow! a universe!).
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  #66  
Old 05-16-2009, 05:19 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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I need a confirmation.

In WC3 Mannoroth implied he had fought againts Cenarius, but this wasn't mentioned in WoTA book, right? Meaning Knaak forgot about it or lol-time-travel-changed things.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:22 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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You're right.

Next to Azzinoth, that's one of the "bugs" of WotA Trilogy.
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  #68  
Old 05-16-2009, 05:22 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
I need a confirmation.

In WC3 Mannoroth implied he had fought againts Cenarius, but this wasn't mentioned in WoTA book, right? Meaning Knaak forgot about it or lol-time-travel-changed things.
Both, Knaak screwed up and the only way to explain it is time travel changed shit.
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  #69  
Old 05-16-2009, 05:27 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Thanks!
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:52 AM
Atomic_Piggy Atomic_Piggy is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz View Post
The playable Death Knights were pretty much fallen heroes of the Horde & Alliance, but the ones like Baron Rivendare willingly made an unholy pact with the Lich King for power, also the official description for the death knight heroes in Warcraft 3 was that they were Paladins who went to Northrend to vengeance on the Lich King but the maddening voice of Lich King corrupted them and when they finally arrived to Icecrown, they were offered the unholy pact.

I can't answer your second question as only the end of WoTLK can truly answer your question.
Ah, thank you for your help.
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  #71  
Old 05-16-2009, 06:27 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyJP View Post
1) Were Blood Knights only absorbing Muuru? Why would that have the same effect on them as the other Blood Elves who were absorbing arcane and fel magic? If they were absorbing both holy and fel magic wouldn't they like, blow up maybe?

2) Is there any specific reason that Draenor and Azeroth have some of the same species of animals, or are we just going with the explanation that sizable populations crossed through the portal?

3) Has any lore source ever described an afterlife of any of the religions?
1) Nah theres no blow up thing. =p
2) Theoryes go that Draeneor is a titan made planet, you could just say Blizzard found it easier to make similiar beasts than making all kinds of wacky star trek/star wars alike aliens. ^^
3) Orcs spirit travel somewhere, thats why they burn the corpses. Night elves become wisps.
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  #72  
Old 05-16-2009, 06:34 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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Quote:
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3) Has any lore source ever described an afterlife of any of the religions?
Light worshippers are believed to "go to paradise" as is described by A'dal when he saves Crusader Bridenbrad. Whatever this mean, christianity-like paradise, or starwars-like "becoming one with the Light", we don't know.
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  #73  
Old 05-16-2009, 06:44 AM
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It's evident that Bridenbrad got assimilated by the Naaru.

World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Burning Borg
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  #74  
Old 05-16-2009, 07:47 AM
Kimera888 Kimera888 is offline

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Is there a simple, current "timeline" for major events in World of Warcraft?

For instance, see this link: http://www.wowwiki.com/Timeline_(uno...of_hostilities

There are no details for what happened after World of Warcraft started. I'm not looking for dates, just something like "WoW comics arc 2" followed by "the Broken Front" followed by "Battle(s) of Undercity", etc.
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  #75  
Old 05-16-2009, 07:50 AM
Drz Drz is offline

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There will be when Warcraft 4 comes or so, its the safest decision for Blizzard to not make small screw ups and spam the retcon hammer. ^^;
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