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  #5476  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:29 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I wonder which next ones will be about. I guess either Sylvanas or Nathanos (or both) gets one, but what about the third one? (I hope it's not Magni...)
Saurfang is a likely candidate as well imo.
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  #5477  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:36 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I've seen some people expecting one about Talanji actually, since she's being set up as Jaina's counterpart as the daughter of the leader of the newly introduced nation who takes over at the end of questing. Though I personally would rather see Saurfang.

The third is 99% about Magni and Azeroth.
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  #5478  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:39 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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A small detail - on page three, when Jaina leaves the Kirin Tor, you can see the Staff of Antonidas on table. In the present time of the comic and in BfA, Jaina has a new staff, with a blue crystal.
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  #5479  
Old 05-22-2018, 03:43 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
So cultural emasculation......... nah. The path of Y’rel perhaps? I’m gonna day no to that.

You see, what you’re looking for is peace on Azeroth, when that is quite literally the last thing Warcraft needs, as peace on Azeroth is the End of Warcraft. Enjoy the conflict. Enjoy the twists and turns. As one problem is resolved throw yourself to the next one. Just as the Hunter is nothing without the hunt, the Alliance is nothing without the Horde and Warcraft is nothing without the War.
You know as well as I do there's other ways to have war in Warcraft beyond forcing the Horde to pull a Joker. The devs just don't want to do more than a tired plot that requires unbelievable foolishness (as opposed to believable foolishness ala Arthas charging off to Northrend to kill Mal'ganis) and Wesaysoisms to continue itself.

Last edited by Cacofonix; 05-22-2018 at 03:48 PM..
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  #5480  
Old 05-22-2018, 04:39 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
You see, what you’re looking for is peace on Azeroth, when that is quite literally the last thing Warcraft needs, as peace on Azeroth is the End of Warcraft. Enjoy the conflict. Enjoy the twists and turns. As one problem is resolved throw yourself to the next one. Just as the Hunter is nothing without the hunt, the Alliance is nothing without the Horde and Warcraft is nothing without the War.
No it's not.

There is no goddamned shortage of war for Azeroth without the Alliance and the Horde. I'm sick and tired of over ten years of this brainwashed bullshit where people insist that if it's not Red and Blue it's not a war. Did nobody witness the latest expansion? Did the Scourge never exist? Did the Twilight's Hammer just not happen? None of that was war? All those battlefields, all those deaths, all that destruction, and none of it was war? Are you kidding me?

The factions don't "put the War in WarCraft." All they do is make the wars stupid and the community horrible. All they do is let the developers condescend and treat us like idiots. Nothing good comes of the factions. Nothing. They are detrimental to the story, detrimental to the players, and detrimental to Azeroth in-universe. Both factions should have been razed to the ground by the Burning Legion before we finished it off, instead of this mindless dumbfuckery that allows them to somehow be essentially unscathed after the LARGEST DEMONIC INVASION IN HISTORY so they can launch a meaningless full-scale war right after.

The Alliance and Horde should be in tatters. Azeroth should be reeling for years to come. Cities should be in ruins. The races should be dealing with their own problems at home as they labor to restore order and repair the damage done. We shouldn't have emerged from over a decade of lore culminating in the LARGEST GODDAMNED DEMONIC INVASION IN HISTORY, RIGHT?! with fewer than a dozen relevant character casualties, no detectable harm done to the landscape and the factions still in a position to readily hate-fuck each other as if nothing happened.

And then they have the gall to tell us at Blizzcon that "oh no, you only did all that world-saving stuff for your faction." Like that's what it was all about, all along. Not the world, or the universe, or the Light, or Life itself. No we only got up in the morning and bothered not to die because we have boner for Azeroth's equivalent of NATO.

Everything about the factions is stupid, and everything about this war is stupid. Legion and BfA are shaping up to be a retrospective two-stroke dumbing-down of everything that is WarCraft as they chuck their universe building into a burning dumpster to narrow the focus of everything to these two redundant clubs that serve only to ruin characters and prove how worthless they are time and time again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordecay View Post
A small detail - on page three, when Jaina leaves the Kirin Tor, you can see the Staff of Antonidas on table. In the present time of the comic and in BfA, Jaina has a new staff, with a blue crystal.
Indeed, a fitting example of a former world character abandoning everything else because she only cares about the factions now. She even spits on the legacy of the mentor who helped make her who she is, because all that matters to a faction character is the narrative of the game's pathetic meta-sports teams.
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  #5481  
Old 05-22-2018, 04:40 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
So cultural emasculation......... nah.
If I have to deal with it, why should you be exempt?
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  #5482  
Old 05-22-2018, 05:40 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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ARM continues to be right about the factions.
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  #5483  
Old 05-22-2018, 06:31 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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I'd rather see Warcraft be in a state of eternal tense peace on the verge of breaking out into war than this nonstop on again-off-again nonsense that seems to have been the pattern for some time.

There's ways to have conflict without Open War. But that's unfortunately not Blizzard's style. They're about being big and loud and seeing how many demons you can explode with a giant Demolisher and battles with The Light and Void. That doesn;t lend too well to things like Diplomatic tension unless they undergo a total writing team overhaul.
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  #5484  
Old 05-22-2018, 06:49 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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@ARM
@Fenixhart

I don't think I could agree with the both of you more.

I kept hearing something when BFA was announced that it would "finish the faction war once and for all"(paraphrased). What does that mean? They can't just abolish the factions(though I'd like them too), as it would cause chaos. Maybe some sort of eternal cold-war for the rest of the game's lifespan?
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  #5485  
Old 05-22-2018, 07:04 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
@ARM
@Fenixhart

I don't think I could agree with the both of you more.

I kept hearing something when BFA was announced that it would "finish the faction war once and for all"(paraphrased). What does that mean? They can't just abolish the factions(though I'd like them too), as it would cause chaos. Maybe some sort of eternal cold-war for the rest of the game's lifespan?
Who said it would finish the faction war once and go all?
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  #5486  
Old 05-22-2018, 08:01 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Who said it would finish the faction war once and go all?
http://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-answ...e-for-azeroth/

The relevant part:

Quote:
Alex Afrasiabi: We feel the Alliance-Horde divide is foundational and fundamental to World of Warcraft as a franchise and as a story, but we danced around it for a very long time. We've had run-ins, we've had close calls, but we've never been able to finish it—to have that resolution. We're coming out of this expansion, Legion, and the world is not in a great place—the players and the factions themselves are not in a great place because there is all of this old animosity that hasn't been resolved. It's time to resolve it.
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  #5487  
Old 05-22-2018, 08:09 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
The alliance does not need to genocide the horde.
The problem is not with the races but with the culture.

They need to be demilitarized and taught what horrors their forefathers committed.
Public trials Nuremberg style.
Keep a strictly defensive local militia.
And allow members of the Horde to join a unified Azeroth defence force.
I am never the one to pull "think of the players" but did you even think how crappy it would be to play and constantly be told you suck, your entire people suck and you should be more like those good people who don't much like you. It might be realistic story-wise but did you even think about this for a moment?

I know I'd be livid as a Horde player if I still payed for WoW if Blizz tried to pull SoO 2.0 or anything remotely similar. I am not a guy to drop sub easily but I might do it in that scenario. And from what I've been reading this is far from a solitary opinion. So how will Blizz make an ending that is satisfying to the Horde is probably beyond them, forget about making Alliance happy too.
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  #5488  
Old Yesterday, 04:29 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
ARM continues to be right about the factions.
Just so you know, some of us were hating on the existence of factions in WoW before it was cool.
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  #5489  
Old Yesterday, 05:04 AM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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I honestly think the factionless route is now more probable than it has ever been
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  #5490  
Old Yesterday, 05:17 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Just so you know, some of us were hating on the existence of factions in WoW before it was cool.
I was asking for cross-faction parties and raids ever since the end of MoP. I really expected the faction conflict to be toned way down after Siege of Orgrimmar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insularius View Post
Saurfang is a likely candidate as well imo.
Good call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
I've seen some people expecting one about Talanji actually, since she's being set up as Jaina's counterpart as the daughter of the leader of the newly introduced nation who takes over at the end of questing. Though I personally would rather see Saurfang.

The third is 99% about Magni and Azeroth.
I think the comics will be about known characters, so Talanji is out, but that's just my guess.

I'm going with Saurfang or Nathanos for now.

Magni and Azeroth... I really don't care about it. Has potential at hinting at future plot developments, but that's all. If we are really going to delve into faction conflict, Blizzard should focus on character motivations and opinions in the war. The least we need now is some neutral character (who is absolutely right) and thinks of the greater good just to show how petty and idiotic everyone else is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordecay View Post
A small detail - on page three, when Jaina leaves the Kirin Tor, you can see the Staff of Antonidas on table. In the present time of the comic and in BfA, Jaina has a new staff, with a blue crystal.
"Nice" way to kill a dangling plot hook, Blizzard...
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  #5491  
Old Yesterday, 05:20 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Just so you know, some of us were hating on the existence of factions in WoW before it was cool.
Arms is basically turning into a more articulate Rotal.
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  #5492  
Old Yesterday, 07:29 PM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
I'd rather see Warcraft be in a state of eternal tense peace on the verge of breaking out into war than this nonstop on again-off-again nonsense that seems to have been the pattern for some time.

There's ways to have conflict without Open War. But that's unfortunately not Blizzard's style. They're about being big and loud and seeing how many demons you can explode with a giant Demolisher and battles with The Light and Void. That doesn;t lend too well to things like Diplomatic tension unless they undergo a total writing team overhaul.
I mean, open wars not even necessarily a problem either. It just becomes one when Blizzard seems incapable of any war being anything other than non existent/tiny (relegated to bgs that may or may not be in the past) or EVERYTHING IS AT WAR down to some tiny isolated village no-one ever heard of crawling out of the woodwork to slam an axe in the other factions skull.

I'd have no problem if the factions were in a state of open war in certain hotspots across the world. The issue is they shove it where there's no good story to tell and are always forcing some gigantic cinematic conclusion that's always on a new level of infuriating (Siege in a nutshell)

That all being said I am STRONGLY against merging the factions. Do that and I can almost guarantee that anyone worried about their races representation now is in for a rude awakening. The Alliance is all human centric. The majority of the neutral factions are on some level human centric. What do you think will happen if the Horde merges with the Alliance?
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  #5493  
Old Yesterday, 07:57 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
No it's not.

There is no goddamned shortage of war for Azeroth without the Alliance and the Horde. I'm sick and tired of over ten years of this brainwashed bullshit where people insist that if it's not Red and Blue it's not a war. Did nobody witness the latest expansion? Did the Scourge never exist? Did the Twilight's Hammer just not happen? None of that was war? All those battlefields, all those deaths, all that destruction, and none of it was war? Are you kidding me?

The factions don't "put the War in WarCraft." All they do is make the wars stupid and the community horrible. All they do is let the developers condescend and treat us like idiots. Nothing good comes of the factions. Nothing. They are detrimental to the story, detrimental to the players, and detrimental to Azeroth in-universe. Both factions should have been razed to the ground by the Burning Legion before we finished it off, instead of this mindless dumbfuckery that allows them to somehow be essentially unscathed after the LARGEST DEMONIC INVASION IN HISTORY so they can launch a meaningless full-scale war right after.

The Alliance and Horde should be in tatters. Azeroth should be reeling for years to come. Cities should be in ruins. The races should be dealing with their own problems at home as they labor to restore order and repair the damage done. We shouldn't have emerged from over a decade of lore culminating in the LARGEST GODDAMNED DEMONIC INVASION IN HISTORY, RIGHT?! with fewer than a dozen relevant character casualties, no detectable harm done to the landscape and the factions still in a position to readily hate-fuck each other as if nothing happened.

And then they have the gall to tell us at Blizzcon that "oh no, you only did all that world-saving stuff for your faction." Like that's what it was all about, all along. Not the world, or the universe, or the Light, or Life itself. No we only got up in the morning and bothered not to die because we have boner for Azeroth's equivalent of NATO.

Everything about the factions is stupid, and everything about this war is stupid. Legion and BfA are shaping up to be a retrospective two-stroke dumbing-down of everything that is WarCraft as they chuck their universe building into a burning dumpster to narrow the focus of everything to these two redundant clubs that serve only to ruin characters and prove how worthless they are time and time again.



Indeed, a fitting example of a former world character abandoning everything else because she only cares about the factions now. She even spits on the legacy of the mentor who helped make her who she is, because all that matters to a faction character is the narrative of the game's pathetic meta-sports teams.
Sifting through the raging hyperbole, I’ll give you a couple replies:

1. I never said that Faction Conflict was the only War in Warcraft. It’s just the primary one. World-Destroyers come and go every year. The Rivalry between the Alliance and Horde is constant. It’s been at the core of Warcraft since it’s inception. Warcraft III was no exception either. Yes, the factions got over their differences (until the Horde Campaign of TFT that set the mood for WoW), but how much blood was shed first? You can’t have people overcome their differences if they don’t have differences to begin with, and the stronger those differences the more effort is required.

2. Just because you obviously have strong negative feelings about a core aspect of the Franchise doesn’t mean everyone does. I love seeing two different sides hashed out. You don’t even have to be a rabid partisan to enjoy it.

Either way, Dude. Chill. People can believe different things. Especially about fiction.
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  #5494  
Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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WCIII not only had the Alliance castaways and Horde work together but also introduced other factions of comparable strength to them (Scourge, Kal'dorei). It also had the factions lose members (Gilneas, Ogres). Point is, WCIII looked from all evidence to be moving the series beyond Orcs VS Humans (if not Alliance VS Horde) only to later give up.
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  #5495  
Old Yesterday, 11:06 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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This expansion the factions amalgamate, we go on adventures across the cosmos fighting void lords and arent afraid of anythin.

Or we don't, we get some hackneyed ending where the Alliance and Horde decide to stop fighting despite one having a boot to the others throat, and we go back to tensions again. Figure the Alliance would learn like the Allies learned during WW1/2 that you need to demolish them to make them realize they lost, but eh.
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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #5496  
Old Today, 03:37 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
WCIII not only had the Alliance castaways and Horde work together but also introduced other factions of comparable strength to them (Scourge, Kal'dorei). It also had the factions lose members (Gilneas, Ogres). Point is, WCIII looked from all evidence to be moving the series beyond Orcs VS Humans (if not Alliance VS Horde) only to later give up.
Dude, we moved beyond Orcs vs. Humans after Warcraft: Orcs and Humans..... Alliance Vs. Horde was almost done away with, but then Daelin showed up........
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