Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > World of WarCraft Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #2301  
Old 12-10-2017, 06:30 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Marthen's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Far, far away...
Posts: 4,560

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Right...the Vision of Time, made by a time-traveling bronze dragon with Epoch Stones from the Timeless Isle, which was used to summon reinforcements from other timelines at the end of War Crimes, then used to travel to Draenor in the past for WoD, then used by Garrosh to show Grommash a vision of the future was only able to let someone travel to another universe and had nothing to do with time.

Alternate Draenor is another timeline. That's literally what another universe is.
There's also this bit where Khadgar calls the events of WoD ""the Legion's corruption seeping through the timeways".

Reply With Quote
  #2302  
Old 12-10-2017, 07:58 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

Arch-Druid
Jon Targaryen's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,367

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I handwave them as clumps of hair made to look like tentacles due to the void energy holding them together.
Dreadlorcks?
Reply With Quote
  #2303  
Old 12-10-2017, 05:51 PM
MyWholeLifeIsThunder MyWholeLifeIsThunder is offline

Druid of the Talon
MyWholeLifeIsThunder's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 81

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I handwave them as clumps of hair made to look like tentacles due to the void energy holding them together.

And here's my Alamara in the dressing room:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/dressing-room...JfD86U8EVS87Vr

And another version:
http://ptr.wowhead.com/dressing-room...gBu8sM8h2B87Vr

What bothers me is the skin color selection... Too limited.
An issue I think it's present is that while at face value on a naked model you can say there are options, but when it comes to put on gear, the contrast of most gears makes the skin tones and hair colors look on the same dark blue range, little difference save for the value. Even the lightest hair color looks "dark" due to contrast.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/dressing-room...08JNd808CiR87c

While my Ranger works well with the dark hair/skin, my mage isn't so lucky.



How he looks v/s how he's supposed to look. Still, an imporvement over using a night elf model.
Reply With Quote
  #2304  
Old 12-10-2017, 06:58 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

Time-Lost Proto Nerd
Insane Guy of Doom's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9,635

Default

A really interesting read I saw on MMO-Champion which gives a lot of details on how the skeletons and player animations have been changed over the past few expansions, the real reason Blizzard is so slow to do a worgen and goblin model update, and some fascinating implications for future playable races, allied or regular:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
All Player Character Races use one skeleton. Allied Races included.

The Zandalari and Nightborn do not use "The Nelf Skeleton" and the Dark Iron Dwarves don't use "The Dwarf Skeleton".

They all use the exact same single skeleton as Worgen and Goblins.

Yeah. I know. CRAZY. But lemme show you how it works!

Back in Cataclysm the Developers started working with an Adaptive Animation Model. That is, a rig or skeleton which can animate different parts independently of one another, and which can be stretched or altered in shape while still retaining functionality. This Skeleton was shared between Goblins and Worgen, though you wouldn't know it by looking at them.

When MoP came along, the Developers had to create monk-specific class animations for every race, which was -super- time consuming and kind of highlighted how damned hard it is to make new classes while adding new races to the game every other expansion. The Worgen and Goblin were excluded from the animation-batching because of how much time it would take to put all of those animations on yet another skeleton.

When WoD came out, however, with it's newly remodeled races, it wasn't just some random decision to make PCs look better: The Developers and Producers had decided to shrink their overall animation workload going forward by moving all races to the new Unified Player Skeleton. It took -boatloads- of work but it had to be done because you couldn't just slap the old models onto the new skeleton and have it work correctly, you needed to make models that specifically anchored to the appropriate points on the new skeleton.

This is also why Goblins and Worgen didn't get model updates: They didn't -need- them. They could use them, sure, since they look kinda bad compared to the rest of the races, but their re-design wasn't needed to move forward with the Unified Player Skeleton since they were already on it.

Then, with Legion's "Class Fantasy" focus, the Developers -further- lowered the need to design every new race's specific combat animations for the different class attacks and spells. Using the single skeleton and adaptive animation design, they created one "Charge" animation that all warriors share, regardless of race. One "Mongoose Bite". One everything. The amount of animation workload required to add even a single new race is now -massively- lower.

This is why when you have a Worgen in the WoWhead model viewer you can view the Monk animations. This is why when you're playing a Demon Hunter in Court of Stars and get transformed into a Nightborn (Which did use the old Nelf Skeleton) the model got stuck whenever you used Blade Dance even though the "New" nelf can use Blade Dance.

This is also why Nightborn had to be remodeled for Players to use. Because they're using the new Unified Player Skeleton. And yeah, they're currently using the Nelf Animations. But they don't -have- to.

Check out this Sethrak from Battle for Azeroth.



Notice anything about their weapon attacks? Those are Pandaren Male attacks, but that is clearly not the Pandaren Male "Skeleton".

Notice anything about their walk animation? That's the Worgen Female walk, but that is clearly not the Worgen Female "Skeleton".

It even uses the Pandaren Male Generic Casting animations! (Which will soon be depreciated outside of things like casting your Hearthstone or other non-class-specific spells)

This is because all three models (Pandaren Male, Worgen Female, Sethrak) use the same Unified Skeleton.

Blizzard now has the ability to mix and match animations pretty much at will. In any direction or order they like. They can make new races without having to spend weeks re-animating the class-attacks and class-spells. Even the new Caster Pose Animations are meant to offset the issue. Go load up a Void Elf Female in WoWhead's modelviewer and do the Shaman and Druid casting animations (she looks kinda great doing them!).

This stuff could be the basis of a massive explosion of new potential player races because the effort required to put them into the game as NPCs can be directly turned around and made into the effort required to make them into playable races without having to go back to the drawing board for a redesign. It's also the best chance we have at a Dance Studio option, since they can now make a single new dance emote and allow any race to use it.

And if that's not the coolest shit coming out of WoW, lately, I dunno what is.
Reply With Quote
  #2305  
Old Yesterday, 01:52 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

Sha of Disappointment
Commander Rotal's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,836

Human Icon (War3)

"We have the ability to do really cool shit with player characters now! What are we going to do with that power?"
"I dunno shit out some reskins but make sure the Alliance gets extra triggered by not getting High Elves."
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2306  
Old Yesterday, 04:19 AM
Hipnos Hipnos is offline

Druid of the Claw
Hipnos's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 103

Default

The funny thing about the Void Elves is that they look like the Broken, is like, "Hey, people want High Elves and Broken, let's merge those and create purple bluish elves with the Broken tentacles in their hair!"

Thank god I don't play alliance, I would be more pissed by the irrationality.

Btw now I want playable Sethrak, what an amazing model.
Reply With Quote
  #2307  
Old Yesterday, 04:44 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,329

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipnos View Post
The funny thing about the Void Elves is that they look like the Broken, is like, "Hey, people want High Elves and Broken, let's merge those and create purple bluish elves with the Broken tentacles in their hair!"

Thank god I don't play alliance, I would be more pissed by the irrationality.

Btw now I want playable Sethrak, what an amazing model.
When I saw Sethrak in the zone videos, I didn't think they were that good, but seeing that model above in motion, hell, they're awesome. I love how their spine, from head to tail, moves like a serpent, despite having arms.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #2308  
Old Yesterday, 05:42 AM
Xin Xin is offline

Owl Scout
Xin's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
When I saw Sethrak in the zone videos, I didn't think they were that good, but seeing that model above in motion, hell, they're awesome. I love how their spine, from head to tail, moves like a serpent, despite having arms.
Yeah, they look pretty awesome.
Still, I'd prefer those cute foxy people to be playable, though it seems to be completely impossible.
Reply With Quote
  #2309  
Old Yesterday, 05:51 AM
Patrick_C Patrick_C is offline

Dryad
Patrick_C's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 151

Default

I dunno. To me it seems the Snakes and Foxes are both being played up as the next Allied Races.
Reply With Quote
  #2310  
Old Yesterday, 05:56 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

Arch-Druid
Deicide's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brazil
Posts: 1,329

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xin View Post
Yeah, they look pretty awesome.
Still, I'd prefer those cute foxy people to be playable, though it seems to be completely impossible.
Personally, I hate furries. I think they are an easy way to create races: get an animal, give it a humanoid body, make it cute in some way, and that's it. So, I have little interest in playing them.

But I understand people love furries, and judging from what they did with Legion races, I wouldn't be surprised if they pull next allied races from what we see in BfA. There's a chance they'll add new allied races each major patch.

From what we saw already, I say sethrak, vulpera and kul tirans are strong candidates. Maybe tortollans as well. It'll depend on how they'll be featured in the story, I guess.
__________________
- Sorry for any typos; english's not my primary language.

- A better signature coming soon(ish).
Reply With Quote
  #2311  
Old Yesterday, 06:11 AM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

Arch-Druid
Joeygiggles's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,107
BattleTag: Joeygiggles#1104

Default

I wouldn't mind seeing a Pandaren style Allied Race. Where you have a story related to the race where they experience situations with the Horde and Alliance and make a choice.
I realize tho that this would just me players picking their normal faction where they mostly play and not really enticing players to go to the opposing faction. Keeping them faction specific can also flesh out more stories and interactions as well
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2312  
Old Yesterday, 06:13 AM
Xin Xin is offline

Owl Scout
Xin's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Moscow, Russia
Posts: 10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick_C View Post
I dunno. To me it seems the Snakes and Foxes are both being played up as the next Allied Races.
Jeez, I hope it won't take them too long to add Blackrock orcs :<
I'm waiting for these guys more than for anybody else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Personally, I hate furries. I think they are an easy way to create races: get an animal, give it a humanoid body, make it cute in some way, and that's it. So, I have little interest in playing them.

But I understand people love furries, and judging from what they did with Legion races, I wouldn't be surprised if they pull next allied races from what we see in BfA. There's a chance they'll add new allied races each major patch.

From what we saw already, I say sethrak, vulpera and kul tirans are strong candidates. Maybe tortollans as well. It'll depend on how they'll be featured in the story, I guess.
Oh, it's not like I'm a huge furry-fan, I just found vulpera too cute for me to ignore them. I bet the reason behind this is their female-goblin skeleton >.> I mean, female goblins are pretty thicc (far from female pandaren, though).

Last edited by Xin; Yesterday at 06:17 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2313  
Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,342
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Right...the Vision of Time, made by a time-traveling bronze dragon with Epoch Stones from the Timeless Isle, which was used to summon reinforcements from other timelines at the end of War Crimes, then used to travel to Draenor in the past for WoD, then used by Garrosh to show Grommash a vision of the future was only able to let someone travel to another universe and had nothing to do with time.

Alternate Draenor is another timeline. That's literally what another universe is.
Universe and timeline can be two different things that exist at the same time. I’m saying that alt Draenor seems to presxist any time traveling shenanigans. It’s not hard to believe that Blizzard introduced the concept of alternate universes, along with other timelines.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
I looked into Blizzard's heart and saw only retcons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
The continuing existence of Five Night's at Freddies is proof that there is no God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Reply With Quote
  #2314  
Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,280

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Universe and timeline can be two different things that exist at the same time. I’m saying that alt Draenor seems to presxist any time traveling shenanigans. It’s not hard to believe that Blizzard introduced the concept of alternate universes, along with other timelines.
And how does that seem to be the case? They went 35 years into the past, to a version of reality where various differences had led to certain alterations in the course of events up to that point.

That's what an alternate timeline is: a divergent iteration of reality created by events happening differently from how they happened in the main timeline.

Moreover, Kairoz outright described these differences - "blades of grass" as he put it - in Hellscream as an expected symptom that he's quite familiar with after ages spent traveling through the timeways, visiting timelines where countless things were different from how they should be.

AU Draenor indeed predates time traveling shenanigans because false timelines in general already did. Kairoz and Garrosh going there didn't create a timeline, but either using the Vision of Time or attaching it to Azeroth via the Dark Portal in all likelihood stabilized it because doing so forced it to become part of the main timeline. Alternate/false timelines have always existed because their existence was never a result of tampering. They're a regular symptom of the timeways expressing the infinite number of possibilities that, under normal circumstances, exist for a while and then fade away as moving farther and farther from the primary timeline destabilizes them. Part of the Bronze Dragonflight's job is making sure they do so without altering the progression of the primary timeline.
Reply With Quote
  #2315  
Old Yesterday, 08:49 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Elune
Gurzog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,731
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander Rotal View Post
"We have the ability to do really cool shit with player characters now! What are we going to do with that power?"
"I dunno shit out some reskins but make sure the Alliance gets extra triggered by not getting High Elves."
only people who want high elves are just people who like NU-star wars.
__________________
Btag is Hulk#23939
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
alliance whining, azeroth literally dying, battle for azeroth, for the whored, quilboar bias, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.