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Old 04-25-2013, 03:20 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Default The Moderator/Poster Relationship

There's a problem, and it's getting out of hand. Let's address it via a public discussion.

Let me start this off with a series of questions.

What should the administrator/moderator team be doing with the power available? How involved should the management team be with policing the forum? Should the management be comprised of 'authority' figures who have Get Out of Jail Free cards, or of posters with the mindset of "By the people, for the people." Or perhaps, the slogan "We're all friends here" will do more to solve issues than punishment?

The last two are obviously rhetorical in the sense that they betray my opinion.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:24 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I don't know. It seems that before, atrocious postings would lead to banishment while mildly annoying postings would lead to an assing.

Now, it seems both have disappeared because of the new Lordaeron option. Can't there still be levels of punishment, based on degree of offense?
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:29 PM
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Call me a constitutionalist, but moderators should act only according to the Rules & Regulations that have been agreed to by everyone and arbitrary discipline is a pretty horrible abuse of power. And when moderation is called for, then it should be done out in the open and transparently so that everyone in the community knows what's happening and why that is. There shouldn't be priveledge attached to the rank that I and others have on here. If you're a mod, your job should be to delete spam, see that the rules are enforced and protect the community. Its not a position where you should be allowed to make bad decisions on a whim.

Last edited by Shaman; 04-25-2013 at 03:46 PM.. Reason: orwellian slip
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:36 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
Call me a constitutionalist, but moderators should act only according to the Rules & Regulations that have been agreed to by everyone and arbitrary discipline is a pretty horrible abuse of power. And when moderation is called for, then it should be done out in the open and transparently so that everyone in the community knows what's happening and why that is. There should be priveledge attached to the rank that I and others have on here. If you're a mod, your job should be to delete spam, see that the rules are enforced and protect the community. Its not a position where you should be allowed to make bad decisions on a whim.
When I first offered you the job of moderator, you declined because you thought you weren't up to the task, lacked experience, and that there were others more deserving of the role.

I am truly proud to say nominating you for the position was the best decision I ever made as an admin.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:43 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
When I first offered you the job of moderator, you declined because you thought you weren't up to the task, lacked experience, and that there were others more deserving of the role.

I am truly proud to say nominating you for the position was the best decision I ever made as an admin.
At least you've done one good thing in your time here.


I kid I kid Timmy. As to the topic at hand, I think no matter what happens and how things are carried out by mods, there will always be people who are unhappy with the way things are carried out. Whether its that mods have too much power, or not enough, the masses will never truly be happy. However let it be known that I actually like the HoL idea. As to Sarah's posts, if we always abide by the same rules, the community has a change to grow stale. Look at most modern constitutions, they have gone through changes over time as both the people and the government see fit.
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:46 PM
Lord Eliphas Lord Eliphas is offline

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Aka, this is the Civil Rights of SoL..

...Or the Civil War of SoL?
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Old 04-25-2013, 03:48 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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  • I want all of us to be equal before the law. If the mods show lenience with one person, because they like that person, the should do the same with others, even if they despise them.
  • If you, the administration, want us to follow the rules, enforce them.
  • The erratic behaviour shown by the administration must go. Do not make hasty decisions without the approval of the rest, if they are likely to disagree with you. We, the users, should not witness your disputes. You, the administrators, should show us a united front.
  • Have ironclad evidence, if you are going to punish one of us. Do not allow punishments to drive a wedge between us, just because you made a hasty decision, won't take it back and the other side has the better arguments.

Of course, Warlock is the boss, so do whatever he says, but remember that we too keep this forum alive. (That is, if you care about keeping this forum alive. )

Edit:
  • You, the mods and admins, should be our role models. Act accordingly.

Last edited by Nazja; 04-25-2013 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:07 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Scrolls of Lore has always policed itself. The social dynamic between posters has made certain that elements considered collectively unpleasant remove themselves, and if they do not, they are forcibly removed. Fojar being the notable exception.

Recently, the botting ran out of control, and it appears as if Admins ascended a few users out of desperation. This bulk ascension has caused a paradgimshift in classes on this forum, where you now belong to a ruling cast or you belong to a followers caste. This hegemony has caused moderators and admins to use the powers granted to them for selfish and humoristic means.

My advice:

Limit the powers of each and every individual mod, so that he or she has powers only retaining to what which he or she is supposed to be doing. If Bolvar is an admin in order to work on technical stuff, remove his powers from banishing people or doing anything that doesn't involve the reason he was ascended to begin with. If some of the mods were ascended simply to combat bots, remove EVERYTHING that doesn't have to do with them fighting bots.

You have made a griveous error in making everyone a moderator, and granting everyone the power that the rank entails, when it's obviously superflous to the tasks they are supposed to be filling.

Hell, if you were to create a rank simply for combatting bots, I would volunteer, as I am sure many others would do.

There's no reason for why bot fighters should have abusable powers over other forum members. Mod powers should not be considered a reward or a privilege, it should be considered a tool to be used for the betterment of this forum, not for silly power plays or personal vendettas.

That is all.
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Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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Old 04-25-2013, 04:10 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
Limit the powers of each and every individual mod, so that he or she has powers only retaining to what which he or she is supposed to be doing. If Bolvar is an admin in order to work on technical stuff, remove his powers from banishing people or doing anything that doesn't involve the reason he was ascended to begin with. If some of the mods were ascended simply to combat bots, remove EVERYTHING that doesn't have to do with them fighting bots.
You have made a griveous error in making everyone a moderator, and granting everyone the power that the rank entails, when it's obviously superflous to the tasks they are supposed to be filling.
I agree with this.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:15 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Well, for starters, users who have been perma-banned and had the audacity (or point in case, stupidity) to find their way back to the site, shouldn't be tolerated and rewarded by being allowed to stay and post, even in a confined space. They should be dealt with severely.

Yeah, I know the mods don't have the patience to deal with Slowpoke's persistent autism on a daily basis and ban him every time he makes a new account, but I'm just sayin'.

I guess that's my only gripe with the moderation on SoL - how leninetly "the law" is applied. You fuck up, you face the consequences. Period.
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  #11  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:17 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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I delete 500 spam threads every day I wake up and click on New Posts. I think I have the patience to see that rules are enforced.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:22 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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For the record: I like the Halls of Lordaeron. I believe it should be used as an alternative from banishment in degrees of offense. We have assing, and we have banishment into Lordaeron.

That should not remove "normal" banishment, that is to say, periods of revoked access to Scrolls of Lore in it's entirety, rather than revoked access to Scrolls of Lore proper.

People should be put into HoL because they're disturbing the rest of the forums, not because they're malicious, but because they're stubborn or stupid.

Someone who keeps whining about Lordaeron or Elune, despite people telling them they're sick and tired of their bullcrap, should be banished to Lordaeron.

People who post pictures of rotting children in africa, aborted fetuses or spew hate speech ad infinitum, should be banished from the site for a period of time related to how griveous the offense has been.

I understand HoL is an interesting experiment, but it should not be the answer to every single problem one has with discipline. HoL should not replace assings or forum banishments, only augment it for those in-between offenses that are too severe to be served with a simple assing, but not as severe as to deserve revoked access from SoL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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  #13  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:24 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
For the record: I like the Halls of Lordaeron. I believe it should be used as an alternative from banishment in degrees of offense. We have assing, and we have banishment into Lordaeron.

That should not remove "normal" banishment, that is to say, periods of revoked access to Scrolls of Lore in it's entirety, rather than revoked access to Scrolls of Lore proper.

People should be put into HoL because they're disturbing the rest of the forums, not because they're malicious, but because they're stubborn or stupid.

Someone who keeps whining about Lordaeron or Elune, despite people telling them they're sick and tired of their bullcrap, should be banished to Lordaeron.

People who post pictures of rotting children in Africa, aborted fetuses or spew hate speech ad infinitum, should be banished from the site for a period of time related to how grievous the offense has been.

I understand HoL is an interesting experiment, but it should not be the answer to every single problem one has with discipline. HoL should not replace assings or forum banishments, only augment it for those in-between offenses that are too severe to be served with a simple assing, but not as severe as to deserve revoked access from SoL.
Yeah, this I agree with. (I felt it necessary to say this, so you get a clearer picture, Timolas & fellowship.)

Last edited by Nazja; 04-25-2013 at 04:28 PM..
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:27 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
For the record: I like the Halls of Lordaeron. I believe it should be used as an alternative from banishment in degrees of offense. We have assing, and we have banishment into Lordaeron.

That should not remove "normal" banishment, that is to say, periods of revoked access to Scrolls of Lore in it's entirety, rather than revoked access to Scrolls of Lore proper.

People should be put into HoL because they're disturbing the rest of the forums, not because they're malicious, but because they're stubborn or stupid.

Someone who keeps whining about Lordaeron or Elune, despite people telling them they're sick and tired of their bullcrap, should be banished to Lordaeron.

People who post pictures of rotting children in africa, aborted fetuses or spew hate speech ad infinitum, should be banished from the site for a period of time related to how griveous the offense has been.

I understand HoL is an interesting experiment, but it should not be the answer to every single problem one has with discipline. HoL should not replace assings or forum banishments, only augment it for those in-between offenses that are too severe to be served with a simple assing, but not as severe as to deserve revoked access from SoL.
Agreed, mr who-once-told-people-to-comit-suicide.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:29 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Agreed, mr who-once-told-people-to-comit-suicide.
And in a fit of sloppy moderating, I was banished for a week for doing so.

As it should be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Pratchett
Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:29 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
I delete 500 spam threads every day I wake up and click on New Posts. I think I have the patience to see that rules are enforced.
Well, that's at least the explanation I read. "He's just gonna keep making new accounts so we're gonna let him stay". I don't know how you guys usually handle stuff like that between yourselves but you let Slowpoke lead you by the nose yet again.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:31 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
Well, that's at least the explanation I read. "He's just gonna keep making new accounts so we're gonna let him stay". I don't know how you guys usually handle stuff like that between yourselves but you let Slowpoke lead you by the nose yet again.
I didn't have anything to do with what happened to SPK and it wouldn't have gone done the way it did if I was the one dealing with it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:33 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
you let Slowpoke lead you by the nose yet again.
Good god, it just hit me that Slowpoke is damn near the closest thing we have to a criminal mastermind around here. What the fuck.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:35 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magistrix Verdande View Post
And in a fit of sloppy moderating, I was banished for a week for doing so.

As it should be.
I wonder how they meassure that. Do they keep a list for offences and once you reach a certain number you'll get a temp ban? I mean, I've been a bit offensive here and there, writing stuff which I expected to get a slap on the wrist for.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:36 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I really don't have a problem with moderation

Except that time last month(?) when Fojar and Verdande where really intense and I really didn't understood why you couldn't just shut their mouths.

Handclaw and Cantus are still my faves.

I still don't know how Omacron got the rank.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:36 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
I didn't have anything to do with what happened to SPK and it wouldn't have gone done the way it did if I was the one dealing with it.
Yeah I know, I'm not adressing you personally, I'm just saying the staff should've handled his case better.

Just out of curiosity, what would you have done?

Quote:
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Good god, it just hit me that Slowpoke is damn near the closest thing we have to a criminal mastermind around here. What the fuck.
I know, right.
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  #22  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:42 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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The limited powers thing seems like a potentially good idea for mods who overstep. Will bring it up.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:43 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Quote:
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I still don't know how Omacron got the rank.
It had something to do with Warlock and a BJ, I think.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:45 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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I think the moderaters should actually moderate and not crumble when forum posters whine about the whip actually coming down.
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Old 04-25-2013, 04:46 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
Yeah I know, I'm not adressing you personally, I'm just saying the staff should've handled his case better.

Just out of curiosity, what would you have done?



I know, right.
Seeing as I made a topic on honesty like an hour ago, I might as well just give my full uncensored opinion here. I think Cantus and Bolvar messed up very badly when it came to this issue. This isn't a policy specific to just SPK because the same would apply to everyone, but if someone's being a consistent problem on here then the correct course of action is to suspend them first and then to suspend them again for even longer if they repeat what they were doing. What you don't do is to just decide to permanently ban them and then delete all of their account information without consulting the community on what was basically an angry whim. I wouldn't have done that if I was Cantus.

Then Bolvar comes into the fray and before you know it, its been decided that SPK should in fact return, but only to post on one of the boards because apparently it would be just too stressful to keep on banning someone that's been evading their punishment. If you try to circumvent a ban here, that should be you done. Its a terrible precedent to set that if you keep making enough accounts you can get away with anything.

So I'm put in the weird position where I wouldn't have either banned him in the first place or have allowed him to return after that decision had already been made.

Last edited by Shaman; 04-25-2013 at 04:50 PM..
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