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  #51  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:01 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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It's fine if you want a thread to it, but if you keep bringing it up, take it here. And certainly think about what is posted, or wait and see what it entails, before rushing headlong into complaints.
Why in the world should I take this condescending thread seriously?

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Or it could be to emphasize a part of the storyline they want to.

Did you ever consider that maybe, just maybe, Blizzard has a direction for the Forsaken storyline that isn't what you imagine it to be?
Gameplay mechanics limit what they can do with the Forsaken. I doubt that a character as popular as Sylvanas will receive any comeuppance, and I doubt that Blizzard is going to let the Alliance have Hillsbrad or Andorhal back.

My money is on something happening to make Sylvanas and the Horde at large "super sowwy," some neutral faction will declare them "redeemed" with no say from the Alliance (or the Forsaken will make like the Orcs and decide that they've been redeemed with no input from their victims) and they'll have a bunch of cleanly conquered territory with a wiped clean moral slate in the end.

That's what I think is going to happen. Oh, and Sylvanas will keep on talking about how the Forsaken are a bunch of poor Scourge victims despite their actions.

Last edited by Fojar; 05-15-2011 at 07:04 AM..
  #52  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:05 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Why in the world should I take this condescending thread seriously?
I can't even blame you.
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And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
  #53  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:35 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Funny that you post this after you decide to faction change to Horde.

I'll belly-ache wherever I goddamned please about how Blizzard favors your bitchy emo ilk.
Whats that Bolvar? I couldn't hear you over the sound of you cutting yourself.
  #54  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Funny that you post this after you decide to faction change to Horde.

I'll belly-ache wherever I goddamned please about how Blizzard favors your bitchy emo ilk.
I dunno, the only bitchy emo people I see here are the ones incessantly whining about video game faction bias.
  #55  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Peger View Post
I dunno, the only bitchy emo people I see here are the ones incessantly whining about video game faction bias.
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, because there seems to be a lot of people whining at the people who believe it's a concern.
  #56  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:53 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, because there seems to be a lot of people whining at the people who believe it's a concern.
I think the only people who should throw stones are the ones trapped in a glass house.

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Funny that you post this after you decide to faction change to Horde.

I'll belly-ache wherever I goddamned please about how Blizzard favors your bitchy emo ilk.
Meh. Been Alliance for so long now that I couldn't stand the thought of spending one more minute in Stormwind.

And the Horde is not emo. I hate emo. Emo must die.
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Last edited by Exxile87; 05-15-2011 at 08:55 AM..
  #57  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:53 AM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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What I find hilarious is that those who don't want to hear us complain about this, insist that we do so in a constructive manner, yet, we do so, and so they complain about us. It's like the only way they'll be happy is if we put up and shut up.
  #58  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:58 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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That's what I think is going to happen. Oh, and Sylvanas will keep on talking about how the Forsaken are a bunch of poor Scourge victims despite their actions.
I have only one thing more to say, and this is all that really needs to be said.

Do you REALLY not understand the difference between subjectivity and objectivity?

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It bothers me the same way when someone whines that Kael went down the dark path was horrible or Tyrande and the Night Elves aren't the warrior women and blahblahblah as it does that Fojar never stops bringing up how the Forsaken starting areas are great, and they are invading and destroying human lands and lore with reckless abandon, and blah blah blah blah.
I'm not really not going to be able to be objective about this, but do you really think the character derailment they put Tyrande, Kael and such through is comparable or as unreasonable a complaint as someone complaining that they put effort into another aspect of the game?

I mean complain about losing zones if you wish, but saying that Blizzard has some sort of hatred towards the Alliance or whatever is just asinine, paranoid nonsense. Or that Forsaken characters saying "For Lordaeron!" is some shot at... I don't even begin to understand what the hell people are bitching about there. Like you could spend hours explaining to me how a Forsaken saying "For Lordaeron" is some big affront to... whatever, and I STILL wouldn't understand.

I don't even disagree with everything Fojar says.

Also, Gurtogg, I'm too lazy to track down your post in this thread, but it was glorious. GLORIOUS I say.

I don't even think the Night Elves aren't portrayed as warrior women anymore. Cataclysm fixed that the same way they fixed the wimpiness of the Forsaken. Now they just need to be more independent from the humans and Tyrande needs to do stuff other than be a diplomat and Furion's wife. (Which doesn't even suit her anyway because she's confrontational and incredibly aloof and judgemental.)
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  #59  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:01 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Originally Posted by Iliya View Post
What I find hilarious is that those who don't want to hear us complain about this, insist that we do so in a constructive manner, yet, we do so, and so they complain about us. It's like the only way they'll be happy is if we put up and shut up.
The difference between whining about something and having a valid concern is all in presentation.

For example, here's whining:

Oh God, Blizz screwed the Alliance AGAIN. First Lordearon gets decimated by the Scourge, then it gets overrun by the Forsaken! The Lich King is dead so those whiny emo zombies should just die in a fire and give the Alliance back it's kingdom so the Alliance has the Eastern Kingdoms and the Horde gets Kalimdor. And Sylvanas is a bitch. Garrosh is a nub. But Blizz wants them to be popular, while they make the gnome guy the most interesting Alliance boss. And that's not fair WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Here's a valid concern:

I was just thinking...Garrosh and Sylvanas may both be being set-up for a fall by the end of this expansion. We've seen them both at high and low points so far, and neither really has much of a real following in game or in the greater community (especially Garrosh). I find it odd that Blizzard is doing this to the Horde, but not to the Alliance. I don't wanna be "that guy" but I'm kinda seeing some bias here.
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  #60  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:13 AM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I actually want to see Garrosh and Sylvanas have a odd but good relationship abit like one wanting to best the other but always aiding each other.

Or they could just go at it and have a Duel because i doubt Garrosh is going to cleave a Banshee.
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  #61  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:24 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
I actually want to see Garrosh and Sylvanas have a odd but good relationship abit like one wanting to best the other but always aiding each other.

Or they could just go at it and have a Duel because i doubt Garrosh is going to cleave a Banshee.
I'm pretty okay with their relationship the way it is now.

Sylvanas thinking Garrosh is a brutish push-over who she's constantly trying to push her limits with.

Garrosh thinking Sylvanas is an underhanded, devious renegade bitch who could betray the Horde at any moment.

I don't really see the problem.
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  #62  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:43 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Hopefully if the raging fanboys don’t “take this thread seriously” then mods (I’m looking at you Omacron and Cantus) will just start moving their posts here until the fanboys reach the point where they can make a reply that does not amount to “Blizzard Hates My Faction! Oh No! Not Fair Waaaaaaah!.”

Seriously, if you contribute nothing more than that to this forum then this thread is where you belong.
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  #63  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
Hopefully if the raging fanboys don’t “take this thread seriously” then mods (I’m looking at you Omacron and Cantus) will just start moving their posts here until the fanboys reach the point where they can make a reply that does not amount to “Blizzard Hates My Faction! Oh No! Not Fair Waaaaaaah!.”

Seriously, if you contribute nothing more than that to this forum then this thread is where you belong.
That's great, but what thread are we going to direct all the pretentious stuck-ups who hate on other fans to?
  #64  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:46 AM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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Originally Posted by Exxile87 View Post
The difference between whining about something and having a valid concern is all in presentation.

For example, here's whining:

Oh God, Blizz screwed the Alliance AGAIN. First Lordearon gets decimated by the Scourge, then it gets overrun by the Forsaken! The Lich King is dead so those whiny emo zombies should just die in a fire and give the Alliance back it's kingdom so the Alliance has the Eastern Kingdoms and the Horde gets Kalimdor. And Sylvanas is a bitch. Garrosh is a nub. But Blizz wants them to be popular, while they make the gnome guy the most interesting Alliance boss. And that's not fair WAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!

Here's a valid concern:

I was just thinking...Garrosh and Sylvanas may both be being set-up for a fall by the end of this expansion. We've seen them both at high and low points so far, and neither really has much of a real following in game or in the greater community (especially Garrosh). I find it odd that Blizzard is doing this to the Horde, but not to the Alliance. I don't wanna be "that guy" but I'm kinda seeing some bias here.
I rarely, if ever, see valid concerns about the Alliance, stated so blatantly puerile as you have put right there. Maybe that's just your perception of them.

Also, it would have helped your case if you put the same concern from only one faction's perspective, instead of trying to paint the grievances of the alliance as pure whining, while putting the horde's perspective as a valid concern.
  #65  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:50 AM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
That's great, but what thread are we going to direct all the pretentious stuck-ups who hate on other fans to?
You direct them to "Scrolls of Lore." That's practically this board's mission statement.

If you want to coddle those turning every thread into faction bashing, go ahead. Don’t expect everyone else to do the same. This thread got stickied for a reason.
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  #66  
Old 05-15-2011, 10:59 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Lol@people who want Magni to be Earth Warder. It wasn't enough that Bolvar became the next Lich King? They want Magni to be Earth Warder, too? No mortals for Earth Warder, k?
  #67  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Iliya View Post
I rarely, if ever, see valid concerns about the Alliance, stated so blatantly puerile as you have put right there. Maybe that's just your perception of them.
That's pretty much how we operate here at Scrolls of Lore. We're not the official story forums. Most of us don't have a faction bias, and those who do (like Ornsharpaxe/Qirnhelm) get driven out when they start acting like douchebags.
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
That's pretty much how we operate here at Scrolls of Lore. We're not the official story forums. Most of us don't have a faction bias, and those who do (like Ornsharpaxe/Qirnhelm) get driven out when they start acting like douchebags.
That Ornhelm guy was so amusing.
  #69  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:28 AM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
That's pretty much how we operate here at Scrolls of Lore. We're not the official story forums. Most of us don't have a faction bias, and those who do (like Ornsharpaxe/Qirnhelm) get driven out when they start acting like douchebags.
Want to wager at how long I'll last?

This is Dallanna by the way.
  #70  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:28 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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They have to do something with Thrall after Deathwing is dead and the shamanic crisis is over. It's unlikely he'll return to Orgrimmar, and they're not likely to let him stay on the sidelines when he's so instrumental to the future of the game, ie the damn movie.

There's incredible foreshadowing going on, splitting up Thrall's soul via the elements, a weapon that merges a player with a named dragon, the ascension of the blue Aspect, the redemption of the black flight... but I don't know if Blizzard's editorial staff can work that widely.
  #71  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:31 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Iliya View Post
Want to wager at how long I'll last?

This is Dallanna by the way.
Did you get banned or something?
  #72  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Urth View Post
They have to do something with Thrall after Deathwing is dead and the shamanic crisis is over. It's unlikely he'll return to Orgrimmar, and they're not likely to let him stay on the sidelines when he's so instrumental to the future of the game, ie the damn movie.

There's incredible foreshadowing going on, splitting up Thrall's soul via the elements, a weapon that merges a player with a named dragon, the ascension of the blue Aspect, the redemption of the black flight... but I don't know if Blizzard's editorial staff can work that widely.
The movie occurs before WoW even starts.
  #73  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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Did you get banned or something?
From the WoW forums? A few times, but this time, I let my sub run out because I needed to save on cash.

Also, I've noticed that I've developed a bit of notoriety for being a rather vocal Anti-Horde/Pro-Alliance poster. And I admit that I've crossed the line at times, so, previous bans were not always unwarranted. To put it in some perspective, I was once accused of being Vyrin on another account.
  #74  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:35 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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The way I see it is this, each expansion (counting Vanilla) is either horde or alliance focused.

Vanilla: Alliance, they had a really massive 1-60 spanning storyline about Onyxia which cumulated in one of the most epic quests in the game, while the horde had no similar far reaching story.

Burning Crusade: Horde, while the Alliance did get some nice presence with the Draenei and Sons of Lothar, the main story of BC was definitely about the orcs and blood elves. The blood elves got more development in that expansion than any other race has had in the entire game.

Wrath: Alliance, the alliance had a far greater focus on Arthas (the questlines in the dragonblight, Muradin coming back, the much more important to the main storyline Naxxanar quest chain), Stormwind got a huge harbor district, Varian came back and was more involved in the Alliance's story than Thrall had been for the horde's (in game that is), and Bolvar even got to be the Lich King. The forsaken could have had their time to shine, but considering they vanished after the dragonblight they didn't get to have their big "vengeance against the Lich King".

Cataclysm: Horde, goblins are far more developed than worgen and have a greater presence in the world, the horde leaders are getting a lot more lore than the alliance leaders, Orgrimmar got a brand new architectural style while Stormwind just got some shinier textures, the forsaken get the development and story they missed in Wrath, and Thrall is arguably the main protagonist of the expansion.

It stands to reason, especially if we're going to be fighting Azshara next pack, that the Alliance will shine again, followed by the horde after that and so on.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 05-15-2011 at 11:40 AM..
  #75  
Old 05-15-2011, 11:36 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Aldrius View Post
I'm pretty okay with their relationship the way it is now.

Sylvanas thinking Garrosh is a brutish push-over who she's constantly trying to push her limits with.

Garrosh thinking Sylvanas is an underhanded, devious renegade bitch who could betray the Horde at any moment.

I don't really see the problem.
I agree completely.

That's what makes great lore and storytelling. You want to have some tensions there between the leaders, both within and outside of the faction.

You don't want to have a situation like you have within the Alliance, with the exception of the dwarves, where everyone loves each other and skips through the daisy fields singing happy songs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The way I see it is this, each expansion (counting Vanilla) is either horde or alliance focused.

Wrath: Alliance, the alliance had a far greater focus on Arthas (the questlines in the dragonblight, Muradin coming back, the much more important to the main storyline Naxxanar quest chain), Stormwind got a huge harbor district, Varian came back and was more involved in the Alliance's story than Thrall had been for the horde's (in game that is), and Bolvar even got to be the Lich King. The forsaken could have had their time to shine, but considering they vanished after the dragonblight they didn't get to have their big "vengeance against the Lich King".
I really felt that WotLK was a bit more balanced, or at worst, slightly Alliance favored Dragonblight- i.e. Forgotten Shore, anyone? Also, the deeper relevations of where the gnomes, humans (Forsaken) and dwarves came from. Which makes sense since we already know where trolls, and orcs come from.

What Horde got in Wrath was seeing Garrosh growing as a leader under the tutelage of Saurfang and the groundwork being laid for the New Horde you see in Cata. New allies in the Taunka, the relevation that many of the blood elves that died with Illidan's army became San'layn. The Wrathgate was huge for the Horde, even more so than the Alliance. The fact that Forsaken pretty much disappeared after that, was probably because the Horde no longer trusted them and moved them into secondary positions while they tried to recover what was lost at Undercity. That's what really what the Horde got out of WotLK, it was one giant prelude lorewise/gamewise to Cata.

Unfortunately, the Alliance didn't get the same thing. Varian doesn't leave the castle. Murian is dealing with the Council... and Thassirian is the only major character from WotLK that the Alliance gets to interact with. If there are more, please feel free to call them out.

As for Varian, he got the same amount of time that Thrall got. Appeared in Wrathgate, appeared in the Argent Fairgrounds. The only time that they didn't share was at ICC, but last I had read, that wasn't cannon.

While the Alliance just got throw away leaders that we have never seen in Cata.

I've also heard that according to cannon, the Horde won the gunship battle, they killed Saurfang Jr. and they took the credit for taking down the ICC defenses enough to allow Fordring and the "heroes" to get inside the LK's lair. Although the sources are never said...
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