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View Poll Results: Who Should Become Bifactional?
Alliance Trolls 8 9.76%
Alliance Blood Elves (High Elves) 45 54.88%
Alliance Tauren (or some offshoot) 17 20.73%
Alliance Orcs 7 8.54%
Alliance Undead (Forsaken style undead) 12 14.63%
Alliance Goblins 18 21.95%
Horde Dwarves 18 21.95%
Horde Night Elves 8 9.76%
Horde Humans 14 17.07%
Horde Worgen 15 18.29%
Horde Draenai 15 18.29%
Horde Gnomes 7 8.54%
No, I don't want this at all 25 30.49%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:57 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Broken are as much the Holier-than-thou Draenei as the forsaken are humans.
The answer is 0.
Well, both Humans and Forsaken hate the Lich King...
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:58 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
4) TBC manual, which states that draenei are going to try to take revenge on the orcs.


What could have been...
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:03 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Jungleluke View Post
Blizzard just didn't explore it, Broken Draenei for one didn't like the Orcs. At all.
Only a few Broken didn't like the orcs, and that was in HFP. The ones in Nagrand were more considered about the Lost Ones/crazy Broken causing the orcs to focus on them.

Could Blizzard suddenly bring up some anti-orc draenei? Sure, anything's possible.

However, they did not, especially during the times it would have been justified by the plot (Hellscream's Horde acting like the Old Horde and attacking their allies)... so it doesn't really count. At all.

There's more evidence for the draenei being racist against blood elves and Forsaken than orcs.
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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:47 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Bit sad that so few elaborated on their choices, because there are some unexpected picks in that poll!



Anyhow, I already explained my ideas for the Horde to Alliance races I picked, now it is time for Alliance to Horde.

Horde dwarves, first off, dwarves are awesome. They have cool aesthetics and are a very spirited nation, but how to get them into the Horde? Easiest way are some Dark Irons, since they are largely rebelling against Moira anyway. Thorium Brotherhood would do well since they tap into dwarven coolness much better and aren't as dickish as regular Dark Irons.
If we are want Bronzebeards, one way would be to have the Stormpike capitulate to the orcs, getting semi-enslaved in a similar manner to my Alliance orcs. Basically gruff dwarves forced to fight for the Horde or risk their families being hurt by the orcish occupation force.

Horde humans, are pretty easy. Humans are everywhere and not very bound to a central human identity. They make the bulk of the cultists, pirates, various bandits. Such groups, namely Defias, Syndicate and Death Cult bound to the Forsaken are all realistic and intriguing possibilities for Horde humans. I could go on about just how this all fits, but I reckon that it is obvious to those who are open to the idea already.
Also the human PvP racial will be available to both sides now.

Horde worgen I want because there is a chance for them to reach their dark potential among the Horde. And I don't mean any anti-hero shenanigans as Grim does, I mean off the chain murderous dogs of war who are wild and bloodthirsty. Orcish instruments of death to be unleashed and Sylvanas' pet slaves to protect her from death. Barely even able to muster a shred of humanity they are dominated by their beastly nature, they can't even transform into humans.

Horde night elves... I just find them cool. Like worgen I feel they could be much more beastly and true to their nature in the Horde. I'd set it up as a extreme reactionary movement against Tyrande and Malfurion, seeking to restore the pre-WCIII night elf society by any means necessary, civil war and allying with the Horde included.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:57 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Lol

''My idea is that the Horde suck away all the awesome things that would make the Alliance compelling if it was actually explored, then have the Alliance suck away things the Horde don't care about anyway because they're not interesting.''

Yep, still fucking hate this. I'm done with this thread.
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  #31  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:00 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Lol

''My idea is that the Horde suck away all the awesome things that would make the Alliance compelling if it was actually explored, then have the Alliance suck away things the Horde don't care about anyway because they're not interesting.''

Yep, still fucking hate this. I'm done with this thread.
Blame Blizzard man, that seems to be their MO. My feelings on it have been made abundantly clear.

C9H20 pretty much covered my points, so that post speaks for me.
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  #32  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:32 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Lol

''My idea is that the Horde suck away all the awesome things that would make the Alliance compelling if it was actually explored, then have the Alliance suck away things the Horde don't care about anyway because they're not interesting.''

Yep, still fucking hate this. I'm done with this thread.
I really don't think saying that is fair, Grim.

I very much love orcs, trolls, blood elves and Forsaken yet I gave them gladly to the Alliance (see the previous post dammit) because I think good story could come of that.

As Macaque said, Blizzard screwed over the Alliance, not I. Hell, you can still have your dark, anti-hero worgen, my vision of Horde worgen is a straight up brutal villainy.
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  #33  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:43 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Lol

''My idea is that the Horde suck away all the awesome things that would make the Alliance compelling if it was actually explored, then have the Alliance suck away things the Horde don't care about anyway because they're not interesting.''

Yep, still fucking hate this. I'm done with this thread.
Better than suffering a thousand and one threads on the Story forums about how because Genn killed a surrendering Blood Elf that the Alliance are the ultimate evil on Azeroth.

Or maybe not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
my vision of Horde worgen is a straight up brutal villainy.
The problem is that the Horde already have their 'straight up villainy' in droves. Heck, the last thing the Horde needs is more villainy. The Worgen should have been that 'dark, gritty and edgy' race. Instead we got... furry Night Elves. There's probably nothing that can be done, but giving the Worgen's original MO to the Horde just rubs salt in the wound.

Last edited by Drusus; 11-07-2013 at 09:45 AM..
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  #34  
Old 11-07-2013, 09:45 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Not a fan of this idea at all.
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  #35  
Old 11-07-2013, 11:20 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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I vaguely recall an old RPG mentioning there being Orcs and half-orcs living as outcasts in Stormwind... May have been in the same book as the Savagekin of the Hinterlands.
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Elves are terrific. They beget terror.

The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

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  #36  
Old 11-07-2013, 12:38 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drusus View Post


What could have been...
Yes. Indeed. I'm still especially mad at Blizz because of this. It was the deciding factor for me playing Draenei and thus paying to play instead of lurking in private servers. That and the fact that a french gaming magazine described them as "demons from the same race as Archimonde", giving them an aura of awesomeness.

How naive of me. I know better, now.
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  #37  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:22 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Yes. Indeed. I'm still especially mad at Blizz because of this. It was the deciding factor for me playing Draenei and thus paying to play instead of lurking in private servers. That and the fact that a french gaming magazine described them as "demons from the same race as Archimonde", giving them an aura of awesomeness.

How naive of me. I know better, now.
Someone should really ask that at BlizzCon.

"Hey, Blizz. How come the Alliance isn't allowed to have any dark/savage/edgy races? Seems that once a race that could be described as one get's turned into a copy of another good and pure Alliance race"
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  #38  
Old 11-07-2013, 01:58 PM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Well, Draenei age VERY slow, right? So, children are very valuable, right? So, if you're RP'ing a Draenei, and your child was killed during the siege of Shattrath (or other battle), then I'm sure you can RP as a vindictive, Orc-hating, Draenei.

Just headcanon that the Draenei still mistrust and sometimes even loathe the orcs.
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  #39  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:06 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungleluke View Post
Well, Draenei age VERY slow, right? So, children are very valuable, right? So, if you're RP'ing a Draenei, and your child was killed during the siege of Shattrath (or other battle), then I'm sure you can RP as a vindictive, Orc-hating, Draenei.

Just headcanon that the Draenei still mistrust and sometimes even loathe the orcs.
No you can't. Maarad sister get raped to give birth to Garona and he don't give a fuck.

The only time you see vindictive, it is in Bloodmist questing and the more I think about it the more I believe that it is because of the Legion involvement with those Blood Elves.
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  #40  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:07 PM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Originally Posted by Korath View Post
No you can't. Maarad sister get raped to give birth to Garona and he don't give a fuck.

The only time you see vindictive, it is in Bloodmist questing and the more I think about it the more I believe that it is because of the Legion involvement with those Blood Elves.
Saying nothing about a subject is not denying it. I guess he just didn't talk about it, but he never said:'I was totally okay with it that those green dicks raped my sister'.
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  #41  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:07 PM
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At some point in Cataclysm I contemplated the possibility of Dark Iron Dwarves joining the Horde. With Pandaria's developments, however, I'm more than happy with Dark Irons being Alliance now.

So I only voted High Elves. Because I want High Elves, damn it.
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  #42  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:11 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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I've voted for Draeneļ Horde because it i their time to hear the Army of Light bullshit.
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:17 PM
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I'd say alliance high elves, goblins (because we really need to get all the cartels out there) and tauren (seriously, still not sure why the druidic tribes haven't told the horde to go fondle itself), and horde humans (alterac), dwarves (thorium brotherhood and worgen (the orcs in the eastern kingdoms being infected and becoming worcen). If we're gonna go with cross-faction races, we might as well go all out.
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2013, 02:30 PM
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All of them, factions are dumb.
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2013, 04:57 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
I'd say alliance high elves, goblins (because we really need to get all the cartels out there) and tauren (seriously, still not sure why the druidic tribes haven't told the horde to go fondle itself), and horde humans (alterac), dwarves (thorium brotherhood and worgen (the orcs in the eastern kingdoms being infected and becoming worcen). If we're gonna go with cross-faction races, we might as well go all out.
Good, good.


Keep the explanations coming people.
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  #46  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:05 PM
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I voted goblins and blood elves. In those cases there's no need for an explanation, right?

Anyways, I probably should've vote troll too. Since it doesn't specify which tribe, I feel like this option is one of the easiest to rationalize, besides those involving races that are already comprised of members of both factions.

After some consideration, I probably don't mind Alliance races joining the Horde, if they're not members of any group we currently know. For example, I wouldn't mind a new sub-species/clan of dwarves joining the Horde. What I do not like are suggestions like making the Defias join the Horde. C'mon, those guys might hate the SW nobles, but to make them join the Horde? Really? (I actually have no idea whether someone proposed this, so if someone did, I'm not hating on you or something like that. )
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  #47  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:13 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Someone should really ask that at BlizzCon.

"Hey, Blizz. How come the Alliance isn't allowed to have any dark/savage/edgy races? Seems that once a race that could be described as one get's turned into a copy of another good and pure Alliance race"
Someone definitely should ask that. Also ask about the disparity of edginess between races, makes NO FUCKING SENSE whatsoever for humans and elves to be darker than the race Blizzard initially promised to be dark.
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  #48  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:00 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
What I do not like are suggestions like making the Defias join the Horde. C'mon, those guys might hate the SW nobles, but to make them join the Horde? Really? (I actually have no idea whether someone proposed this, so if someone did, I'm not hating on you or something like that. )
Well, I think those of us who propose this see it as a "war makes strange bedfellows" situation. Sure the humans who make up the Defias were raised to hate the Horde, or even have a genuine reason to hate it, but at the same time their current enemy (from Vanilla and all the years since) has been Stormwind. They died to Stormwind solider and militia, lost friends to them. And here is the power that is Horde offering materiel and teachers, (and if in open war at the time) soldiers to help fight a common enemy.

It is a smart move on the part of the Horde too, they get allies, a possible staging point for an attack on Stormwind and a morale victory since they got a bunch of humans to turn coat... all of that for some resources and a few strategic personnel.

Of course now that the Horde and Alliance are at peace, this doesn't work as well since, presumably, Horde won't sabotage the Alliance and earn the wrath of the man who championed peace no less.

But if the war or hostilities pick up again...
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  #49  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:11 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Defias are dead. Get something better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungleluke View Post
Well, Draenei age VERY slow, right? So, children are very valuable, right? So, if you're RP'ing a Draenei, and your child was killed during the siege of Shattrath (or other battle), then I'm sure you can RP as a vindictive, Orc-hating, Draenei.

Just headcanon that the Draenei still mistrust and sometimes even loathe the orcs.
Someone can RP whatever they like, really!

The thing is that Blizzard doesn't support such interpretations because they're stuck with essentialist interpretations of the races.
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2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.

Last edited by Millenia; 11-07-2013 at 07:13 PM..
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  #50  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:08 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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None, because this is a terrible idea.
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