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View Poll Results: Which of these allied race combos would you prefer?
Vrykul (A)/MU Clans (H) 11 28.95%
Kul Tirans (A)/MU Clans (H) 16 42.11%
Kul Tirans (A)/AU Clans (H) 9 23.68%
Vrykul (A)/AU Clans (H) 2 5.26%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:33 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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Yeah, I have always wanted this myself.

Human: Northrend Human (unique skin/model).
Dwarf: Wildhammer dwarf.
Gnome: Gnome with some mechanical parts >.>
Night Elf: Highborne Night Elf with lighter skin. They can have blond hair.
Draenei: Broken.
Orc: Mag'har.
Troll: Forest Troll.
Tauren: Taunka.
Undead: Undead Elf.
Blood Elf: Cleansed (Sunwell) or corrupted Blood Elf? Unique Farstrider skin with more Night Elven features?
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  #52  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:36 PM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Nah, requirements of that type aren't fair for the players. If they add something special to them, it should be their starting level and/or a limit of characters of the race.

Also, skins /= models. Broken and undead elves (undead elves should) have different models from their partner races'. Mag'Har and Wildhammer dwarves don't, it's just a skin.
The requirements actually would make sense. Also, the current model for broken dreanei is just a reskin of the tauren model, and the model for the Wretched is just a reskin of the current undead.
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  #53  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:40 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Just a note, the big problem with doing this is armor modeling. Remember, even if the model already exists in-game and is allowed to wear certain items it's still a major pain for the the devs to do this for the thousands upon thousands of other items that the models don't have the proper animations for. Also note that some models don't have male or female counterparts, which will also change the appeal.

As to in-game interaction, well the Broken would get a lot of flack for being as they are by the general Draenei community (remember that most Broken are seen as corrupted and thus, in a extremely religious group, seen as capable of corrupting others. Nobundu's status is an extreme rarity amongst the Broken. Extrapolate this to other races and you'll see it's not quite as easy as it seems.
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  #54  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Exxile87 View Post
The requirements actually would make sense. Also, the current model for broken dreanei is just a reskin of the tauren model, and the model for the Wretched is just a reskin of the current undead.
They're not reskins. They're new models and just use the skeleton rigging and animations.
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  #55  
Old 01-19-2010, 12:44 PM
Ded Chikn Ded Chikn is offline

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Originally Posted by Exxile87 View Post
The requirements actually would make sense. Also, the current model for broken dreanei is just a reskin of the tauren model, and the model for the Wretched is just a reskin of the current undead.

Current Goblins, in game ones at least, use the dwarf model skeleton.
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  #56  
Old 01-19-2010, 01:12 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Personally I don't want the confusion of "subraces" and would rather Blizzard just added more unique skins to the existing races that allowed them to look similar to subraces. Example, make extra dwarf faces with face paint, or an extra skin that is ashen black. When it comes to orcs, allow them to have a brown skin, or a more ash skin like the Blackrock. Blood elves can have the blue eye faces open for them. Just a few examples.

Adding new models like the Broken and the Taunka would be overly complicated for several reasons. One, they don't have female versions of the model, and two, they made it so both models have no viable helmet node, so they can't even equip helmets. They would have to change the model to allow that, and in cases like the Taunka, that might be a problem due to the huge and akward size of the head.
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  #57  
Old 01-19-2010, 01:50 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Why should it be complicated?

Like Blizzard hasn't made model characters before -_-. Also, they would make them from scratch.

As for armor issues, the only one having problems are the helm and the shoulders. The rest of the equipment is composed of textures applied over the model skin.
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  #58  
Old 01-19-2010, 01:57 PM
Urth Urth is offline

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Human
Dwarf - new faces, Wildhammer
Gnome
Night Elf - new skin colors, Highborne
Draenei - remodel, Broken
Worgen

Orc - new skin colors, Mag'Har
Troll - remodel, Revantusk
Tauren - new faces, Taunka
Undead
Blood Elf
Goblin
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  #59  
Old 01-19-2010, 02:39 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Like Blizzard hasn't made model characters before -_-. Also, they would make them from scratch.
You do realize that over two expansions we have only gotten four complete races? All the extra races, like the Taunka, Tuskarr, etc... all of them are not even half-complete because making a fully customizable race is not easy. Why do you think a lot of them even reuse existing skeleton meshes?

And you really expect them to model a subrace model for all the races in the game? All 10 (soon 12) of them? Good luck with that.

Quote:
As for armor issues, the only one having problems are the helm and the shoulders. The rest of the equipment is composed of textures applied over the model skin.
Lon, you just proved you don't have any idea of what you are talking about.

Look up the models sometime, they are not flat base meshes, they are dozens and dozens of geosets that are built and cut together to represent different armor types and styles, and each geoset needs to have the right textures correctly mapped to them. This is why certain pants make you wear a skirt, or others wear pants, or larger pants, or thick boots, or no boots. Those are all geosets, and they all need to be created for each and every new model design they work with.

This is why a lot of the "non-playable" races that can equip gear are only given basic geosets, meaning they have less armor "looks" then the playables.
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  #60  
Old 01-19-2010, 03:27 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
You do realize that over two expansions we have only gotten four complete races? All the extra races, like the Taunka, Tuskarr, etc... all of them are not even half-complete because making a fully customizable race is not easy. Why do you think a lot of them even reuse existing skeleton meshes?

And you really expect them to model a subrace model for all the races in the game? All 10 (soon 12) of them? Good luck with that.
Who's speaking about a subrace for each race? I was just speaking of 2 new subraces. Also, skins aren't subraces, they're just new skins for the already existing races.

And they would be worth the work. One of the reasons they go for simplicity with mobs is that they are not the characters. Why bother making new animations and complex models when they won't be used at 100%? If you need an animation for a punctual moment, import an already made one and leave it be.

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
Lon, you just proved you don't have any idea of what you are talking about.

Look up the models sometime, they are not flat base meshes, they are dozens and dozens of geosets that are built and cut together to represent different armor types and styles, and each geoset needs to have the right textures correctly mapped to them. This is why certain pants make you wear a skirt, or others wear pants, or larger pants, or thick boots, or no boots. Those are all geosets, and they all need to be created for each and every new model design they work with.

This is why a lot of the "non-playable" races that can equip gear are only given basic geosets, meaning they have less armor "looks" then the playables.
I lol.

All those geosets you speak about are already part of the model and have the skin of the model over them; mind you, they have the invisible part of the skin over them.

All the items save the shoulders and helms are skins that are stamped over the model. Some times the texture is stamped over a non-invisible part and sometimes not.

If you think I didn't consider you need to make those parts for the playable models (which by the way, aren't the most difficult in any way, cause there's a limited number of styles between 1 and 4 for each part) then you are underestimating me too much. I'm used to make models, WoW models included. I've seen them in bones, so I do know what I'm speaking about.

The hard part are the animations. Consider a single animation as hard to make as the entire model. And yeah, animation doesn't include adding equipment; it's already attached to the bones.

As for NPCs, save special cases like the fel orcs, forest trolls, broken, taunka, tuskarr, goblin... they don't have replaceable skins: they can wear only one (that has different styles, but it's the same in the end). They don't have invisible geosets for stamping extra textures over them.
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  #61  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Just a note, the big problem with doing this is armor modeling. Remember, even if the model already exists in-game and is allowed to wear certain items it's still a major pain for the the devs to do this for the thousands upon thousands of other items that the models don't have the proper animations for. Also note that some models don't have male or female counterparts, which will also change the appeal.

As to in-game interaction, well the Broken would get a lot of flack for being as they are by the general Draenei community (remember that most Broken are seen as corrupted and thus, in a extremely religious group, seen as capable of corrupting others. Nobundu's status is an extreme rarity amongst the Broken. Extrapolate this to other races and you'll see it's not quite as easy as it seems.
In many quests in Outland, you have examples of Draenei trying to reach out to the Broken and reconcile the past.
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  #62  
Old 01-19-2010, 04:52 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
And they would be worth the work. One of the reasons they go for simplicity with mobs is that they are not the characters. Why bother making new animations and complex models when they won't be used at 100%? If you need an animation for a punctual moment, import an already made one and leave it be.
Reusing animations is not "building from scratch".

Quote:
All those geosets you speak about are already part of the model and have the skin of the model over them; mind you, they have the invisible part of the skin over them.
You are missing the base fact that all those geosets, at the core, are "individual" models. Yes they are all part of the base mesh, but they are all modeled individually and require various mapping to the geos. It's not as simple as just taking a texture and throwing it over.

Quote:
If you think I didn't consider you need to make those parts for the playable models (which by the way, aren't the most difficult in any way, cause there's a limited number of styles between 1 and 4 for each part) then you are underestimating me too much. I'm used to make models, WoW models included. I've seen them in bones, so I do know what I'm speaking about.
As do I, but much like me, I know you didn't actually make WoW based models that work in the WoW engine, you just made stock similar models. Show me a actual WoW model utilizing dozens of geosets and I will take more stock in the idea that it's "easy". Otherwise, I think your full of shit.

Quote:
The hard part are the animations. Consider a single animation as hard to make as the entire model. And yeah, animation doesn't include adding equipment; it's already attached to the bones.
I actually, as 3D animator, considering animating the easiest part.

Quote:
As for NPCs, save special cases like the fel orcs, forest trolls, broken, taunka, tuskarr, goblin... they don't have replaceable skins: they can wear only one (that has different styles, but it's the same in the end). They don't have invisible geosets for stamping extra textures over them.
Actually yes they do, but the geosets are more basic. I know, because I have worked extensively with the models for outside hobbies.
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  #63  
Old 01-19-2010, 08:57 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
Yeah, I have always wanted this myself.

Human: Northrend Human (unique skin/model).
Dwarf: Wildhammer dwarf.
Gnome: Gnome with some mechanical parts >.>
Night Elf: Highborne Night Elf with lighter skin. They can have blond hair.
Draenei: Broken.
Orc: Mag'har.
Troll: Forest Troll.
Tauren: Taunka.
Undead: Undead Elf.
Blood Elf: Cleansed (Sunwell) or corrupted Blood Elf? Unique Farstrider skin with more Night Elven features?
Northrend Human is not a subrace.

Gnome with some mechanical parts? Mechagnome?

Highborne is not a subrace.

The Forsaken are actually supposed to be undead humans and undead elves.

Cleansed? That would probably be a High Elf. Corrupted Blood Elf? That is the Fel Elf.

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Originally Posted by Urth View Post
Human
Dwarf - new faces, Wildhammer
Gnome
Night Elf - new skin colors, Highborne
Draenei - remodel, Broken
Worgen

Orc - new skin colors, Mag'Har
Troll - remodel, Revantusk
Tauren - new faces, Taunka
Undead
Blood Elf
Goblin
Highborne is not a subrace.

Revantusk is a tribe...
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  #64  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:39 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Originally Posted by Rolandius View Post
Northrend Human is not a subrace.

Gnome with some mechanical parts? Mechagnome?

Highborne is not a subrace.

The Forsaken are actually supposed to be undead humans and undead elves.

Cleansed? That would probably be a High Elf. Corrupted Blood Elf? That is the Fel Elf.



Highborne is not a subrace.

Revantusk is a tribe...
Undead Elves aren't playable in-game, he's suggesting that they make one. The Revantusk have (or at least should have) the Amani model, which, again, is not a playable model. Highborne could have skinning changes (different eyes, maybe less naturey skin, hell maybe even crystaline growths) and partially converted Gnomes (from the Borean Tundra quest) could technically exist. The Northrend Human thing is extremely vague.

Again though I reiterate (in agreement with Scythe) that this is a lot of work for little benefit. We might see it as a major addition to another expansion, if they don't want to add new races directly, but otherwise it's putting resources into the wrong project at the wrong time.
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  #65  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:53 PM
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Undead elves are TOTALLY playable in game, as death knights. Want one? Roll a DK. That's why they added those new skins.
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  #66  
Old 01-20-2010, 12:13 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Undead Elves aren't playable in-game, he's suggesting that they make one. The Revantusk have (or at least should have) the Amani model, which, again, is not a playable model. Highborne could have skinning changes (different eyes, maybe less naturey skin, hell maybe even crystaline growths) and partially converted Gnomes (from the Borean Tundra quest) could technically exist. The Northrend Human thing is extremely vague.
These are "playable subraces" though. Revantusk is a tribe of forest trolls. Forest troll would be the subrace. I keep hearing that the Highbourne have never changed from the original night elves. I have asked before too due to them doing all that crazy demon draining to fill their energy tank or whatever for thousands of years. I didn't know there were "partially converted" gnomes out there. I thought it was either gnomes were captured and turned into mechagnomes or mechagnomes were captured and turned back into gnomes?

I just realized, to people who picked creatures that have no "female" counterpart, look what they did with the magnataur. The females and males use the same model. Yikes.
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  #67  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:44 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I wanted to come up with one new type for each race. And I only saw the Grizzly Hills humans as the only choice. Obviously, these would also have a new skin/appearance.

Not mechagnome but just some gnome that had tinkered some mechanical parts (like an arm, or half the face could be mechanical) on them. That I didnt choose Leper gnomes was a personal choice since I think they are so ugly and stupid in-game.

I never said Highborne were a subrace. I have not even mentioned subraces in my post. I just want alternate skins (like Mag'har etc). It doesnt matter if its a "subrace" or not to me.

The playable Forsaken look like humans. It would be nice if we got an elven model too (not like dark rangers).

I didnt really know what to choose for Blood Elves so just took "Sunwell elf", "Fel elf" and "Farstrider elf". Farstrider Elf would probably be the best choice here.

We already know that Revantusk is a tribe... but lorewise the forest troll skin/model could be a Revantusk troll seeking to serve the Horde.
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  #68  
Old 01-20-2010, 01:53 AM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
I wanted to come up with one new type for each race. And I only saw the Grizzly Hills humans as the only choice. Obviously, these would also have a new skin/appearance.

Not mechagnome but just some gnome that had tinkered some mechanical parts (like an arm, or half the face could be mechanical) on them. That I didnt choose Leper gnomes was a personal choice since I think they are so ugly and stupid in-game.

I never said Highborne were a subrace. I have not even mentioned subraces in my post. I just want alternate skins (like Mag'har etc). It doesnt matter if its a "subrace" or not to me.

The playable Forsaken look like humans. It would be nice if we got an elven model too (not like dark rangers).

I didnt really know what to choose for Blood Elves so just took "Sunwell elf", "Fel elf" and "Farstrider elf". Farstrider Elf would probably be the best choice here.

We already know that Revantusk is a tribe... but lorewise the forest troll skin/model could be a Revantusk troll seeking to serve the Horde.
You mean the humans who are part of the Wolfcult and can turn into worgen? I was wondering about that myself. Would worgen (some of them at least) count as a subrace of humans?

I think a gnome with just some parts mechanical would still be a gnome. We have seen other races replace arms with gear or weapons instead and stuff.

Ah I see. Well some skins would make something a subrace though since they don't always use a new model for a new subrace in WoW.

The forsaken do look like humans. I am not sure why they went that way. I guess because they use the Scourge model (which they wanted to look human too).

Maybe. The Darkspears are just called "troll" right now at the character selection. So they would have to change it to Jungle Troll and then let you pick Forest Troll, the Revantusks.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:29 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Undead elves are TOTALLY playable in game, as death knights. Want one? Roll a DK. That's why they added those new skins.
Yeah, and undead humans are playable, too, in 2 different forms.

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Originally Posted by Cantus View Post
Again though I reiterate (in agreement with Scythe) that this is a lot of work for little benefit. We might see it as a major addition to another expansion, if they don't want to add new races directly, but otherwise it's putting resources into the wrong project at the wrong time.
They would add new races without having to develop anything more than the model and some basic game mechanics.

I don't consider it wasting your resources. I think they would be the perfect supplement for the class-lack. TBC and Cataclysm had that, so they went and distributed the classes around better; but there won't be more classes to share for the 5th expansion, so they would add these guys as that: customization (unless they add them new different racials, too).

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
Reusing animations is not "building from scratch".
Where did I say that? It seems you are misunderstanding what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
You are missing the base fact that all those geosets, at the core, are "individual" models. Yes they are all part of the base mesh, but they are all modeled individually and require various mapping to the geos. It's not as simple as just taking a texture and throwing it over.
It's all part of the same model: and no, each item hasn't its own model (leaving helms and shoulders out). There's like, what, 4 different cape models? Same for all the other.

As for the textures, all of them follow a pattern linked to their geoset. They only need to make the pattern fit, and every texture they make with that patern will fit perfectly.

Get WoWModelViewer, turn all the geosets on and see it by yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
As do I, but much like me, I know you didn't actually make WoW based models that work in the WoW engine, you just made stock similar models. Show me a actual WoW model utilizing dozens of geosets and I will take more stock in the idea that it's "easy". Otherwise, I think your full of shit.
I've modified WoW models, most of them to make them usable for W3. Again, use WMV to view it by yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
I actually, as 3D animator, considering animating the easiest part.
When I spoke of difficulty, I spoke about the time you spent in each thing. Easy or not, making a good animation requires the same time as a good model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
Actually yes they do, but the geosets are more basic. I know, because I have worked extensively with the models for outside hobbies.
Uh? No way. Take an ogre: he can wear just one skin. You can't make it have another one over his body. Same for all the other creature models.

At least, not as they are like now. If you enable certain stuff, I'm sure you could, but that would require work, work that isn't done.
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  #70  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:21 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
It's all part of the same model: and no, each item hasn't its own model (leaving helms and shoulders out). There's like, what, 4 different cape models? Same for all the other.
While they are part of the same basic grouping, they are still modeled individually and added to the base. You still have to model all the parts and then attach them to the base. We are arguing something based I think on perception. I consider all those geosets to be individual models because each one takes individual time to create and add to the base. You are calling it a single model because, after they are added to the base, they are one single "mesh".

Quote:
I've modified WoW models, most of them to make them usable for W3. Again, use WMV to view it by yourself.
Ah, so you used WMV and used the "export obj" feature. That is not "editing" the models or "creating" the models. That is ripping them and removing geometry to make them workable in WC3.

And trust me, I have probably used WMV a lot longer then you.

Quote:
Uh? No way. Take an ogre: he can wear just one skin. You can't make it have another one over his body. Same for all the other creature models.

At least, not as they are like now. If you enable certain stuff, I'm sure you could, but that would require work, work that isn't done.
We are not talking about "creature" models, we are talking about "character" models, AKA Taunka, Tuskarr, Vrykul, Broken, etc... All character models utilize geosets in order to all them to be "geared" like the playable races. Also, while "creature" models are more basic, they still utilize geosets, like for instance you can "turn off" a lot of the extra cloth or other items from a creature model, or remove the hair, or even sections of the armor.

Also, all of them can have multiple skins, that is why we have red ogres, black ogres, orange ogres, white ogres, etc... I have no idea what you means they can only wear "one skin". Do you mean they don't allow texture overlays?
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:20 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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While they are part of the same basic grouping, they are still modeled individually and added to the base. You still have to model all the parts and then attach them to the base. We are arguing something based I think on perception. I consider all those geosets to be individual models because each one takes individual time to create and add to the base. You are calling it a single model because, after they are added to the base, they are one single "mesh".
The equipment geosets are shit compared to the body and the hair. They are probably the easiest thing to do for the model.

And again, go check them with the WMV. You believe they are the hell of a work, but they are pretty simple.

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Ah, so you used WMV and used the "export obj" feature. That is not "editing" the models or "creating" the models. That is ripping them and removing geometry to make them workable in WC3.

And trust me, I have probably used WMV a lot longer then you.
No way. I converted them myself using other programs and a bit of code work. WMV isn't useful for a W3 conversion.

I'm telling you to use it to see the geosets, cause it's able to display them all. If you know WMV that much, then why haven't you checked them yet? :S

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
We are not talking about "creature" models, we are talking about "character" models, AKA Taunka, Tuskarr, Vrykul, Broken, etc... All character models utilize geosets in order to all them to be "geared" like the playable races. Also, while "creature" models are more basic, they still utilize geosets, like for instance you can "turn off" a lot of the extra cloth or other items from a creature model, or remove the hair, or even sections of the armor.

Also, all of them can have multiple skins, that is why we have red ogres, black ogres, orange ogres, white ogres, etc... I have no idea what you means they can only wear "one skin". Do you mean they don't allow texture overlays?
They can wear only 1 skin at the same time.

So yeah, they don't allow "overlaying".

Also, those character models aren't used bu the players, hence why they don't have unique animations.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:47 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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And again, go check them with the WMV. You believe they are the hell of a work, but they are pretty simple.
I once again say you are over-simplifying. These are not stock models, these are actually decently complicated due to the nature of the geosets.

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I'm telling you to use it to see the geosets, cause it's able to display them all. If you know WMV that much, then why haven't you checked them yet? :S
I use the geosets constantly, stop being dense, we are arguing what those geosets constitute.

And "ripping" is still "ripping", you are not creating anything, no matter the program you use.

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Also, those character models aren't used bu the players, hence why they don't have unique animations.
Once again Lon, stop being dense.

First, some of the character models not used by players do have unique animations. The Tuskarr and Vrykul don't use animations that existed before.

Second, we are not talking about animations. The animations have nothing to do with the fact "character" models, even unplayable ones, utilize geosets and have overlays. This also has nothing to do with the fact that, in order to make new models, they would have to form unique geosets "for" that model, meaning each new subrace would actually just be a new race at the core.

There is a reason Blizzard does not spend a lot of time making all the non-playable "character" models complete like the playable ones, there is a reason Vrykul males can be customized while Vrykul females are stock. Expecting Blizzard to model out "subraces" is foolish. Asking for more skins is much more viable and wastes less time.
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  #73  
Old 01-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Urth Urth is offline

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Asking for more skins is much more viable and wastes less time.
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Old 01-20-2010, 10:06 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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I once again say you are over-simplifying. These are not stock models, these are actually decently complicated due to the nature of the geosets.
And I once again say you're over-complicating . But whatever you or I think about the model-work, I think they are worth to be made.

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
I use the geosets constantly, stop being dense, we are arguing what those geosets constitute.

And "ripping" is still "ripping", you are not creating anything, no matter the program you use.
I have created other models aside from those conversions (that require you to convert them geoset by geoset, cause most of them get turned upside down and stuff like that after converting them and it's all a puzzle mess).

Of course I know what geosets are, darn it -_-.

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
Second, we are not talking about animations. The animations have nothing to do with the fact "character" models, even unplayable ones, utilize geosets and have overlays. This also has nothing to do with the fact that, in order to make new models, they would have to form unique geosets "for" that model, meaning each new subrace would actually just be a new race at the core.

There is a reason Blizzard does not spend a lot of time making all the non-playable "character" models complete like the playable ones, there is a reason Vrykul males can be customized while Vrykul females are stock. Expecting Blizzard to model out "subraces" is foolish. Asking for more skins is much more viable and wastes less time.
They don't spend a lot of time in npcs because they are npcs, and they won't get used by players. Why are you going to do all that work for something not going to be used at full capacity by player hands?

And yeah, these "subraces" are supposed to be playable races. The only difference is that they don't get a deep background, and depend on already existing ones'. I think you didn't understand that from the previous post -_-.

Their point is to introduce them directly, saving all the work around them: starting locations, specific starting storylines; all that stuff that needs to be created around new races.
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  #75  
Old 01-20-2010, 10:35 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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And yeah, these "subraces" are supposed to be playable races. The only difference is that they don't get a deep background, and depend on already existing ones'. I think you didn't understand that from the previous post -_-.
I understood what you meant perfectly, I just think the idea is silly to expect Blizzard to add new models to things that don't need them, IE subraces. Mag'har don't need a unique model, nor do Dark Iron, or High Elves.

We will never get a Broken unless subraces also change racial abilities, which once again, is pushing the subraces to far into regular races. We don't need 75744958948 races.
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