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  #301  
Old 07-05-2018, 09:21 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Stating that you wish to preserve the faction identities while at the same time basing your acceptance of an high elf allied race on the condition that the Horde get humans (THE Alliance race) does sound a wee bit contradictory.
it is in response that deicida says about "fair trade".

I do not want humans and I do not want my race to be in the alliance.

but if there was a "fair trade" that could come to understand, although I do not like it, it is the most played race by the most played race.


the blood elves are THE RACE OF THE HORDE, without the blood elves the horde would be dead at the playable level. that's why the developers put the blood elves in the horde in firts place their only and main reason

even metzen recognized that it is rare for blood elves to be in the horde, but it was the only way for the horde not to be a desert.

the blood elves are the horde, most of their players and by far are blood elves
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  #302  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:14 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
"fair trade"
You don't even know what "fair trade" is.
It's not about numbers, it's about getting a satisfying result for both parties.

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I do not want humans and I do not want my race to be in the alliance.
Then don't ask for humans, ask for what you want.
And it's not "your" race. It never was. It's not your property.

You have all the right in the world to not like the idea of high elves. To have an opinion is one thing, but don't try to use tentative "logic" to create "reasons" to justify your bias. None of your arguments make sense, just like Ion's justifications didn't make any sense, which is why even people who do not care about high elves were upset by his statements.

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without the blood elves the horde would be dead at the playable level. that's why the developers put the blood elves in the horde in firts place their only and main reason
No, it's not. You are still stuck in the past, when there was no interconnectivity between realms. Blood elves didn't even solve the problem that were unbalanced servers, they just increased population in servers that were already Horde-dominated.

Not anymore. Nowadays, Horde is the majority, realms are interconnected, and even the profile of blood elf players changed. People are draw to blood elves because of classes: almost half of them are either paladins (only one other Horde race can choose that) or demon hunters (no other race can be that).

(That's also the reason Night elves almost tie with humans: most of them are either druid or demon hunter)

With demon hunter hype dimishing in BfA and allied races, I won't be surprised if the proportion of blood elves to other Horde races get smaller. A pity there's no new paladin race so far. I'd love to see what would happen if Zandalari were available at prepatch...
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  #303  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:25 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Do you want our race more played? Give us your most played race, that would be fair. I repeat is not something that I want or like, but that would be a "fair trade" and I could understand it
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  #304  
Old 07-06-2018, 11:31 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
Do you want our race more played? Give us your most played race, that would be fair. I repeat is not something that I want or like, but that would be a "fair trade" and I could understand it
It's not up to you to decide that, so cut it out. Stop talking like you are the one to decide those things.
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  #305  
Old 07-06-2018, 11:48 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Rhllor View Post
Do you want our race more played? Give us your most played race, that would be fair. I repeat is not something that I want or like, but that would be a "fair trade" and I could understand it
I mean, I won't be surprised if you're gonna get Nathanos-style dark humans down the road. Sure, there's lore saying that's a very strenuous process but Blizzard can make up anything they want to justify it and it's still one of the highly requested allied races Horde players say they want to have. (Either that, or undead that don't hunch and can customize away from tattered features... basically grey, ghoulish humans.)
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  #306  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:33 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I mean, I won't be surprised if you're gonna get Nathanos-style dark humans down the road. Sure, there's lore saying that's a very strenuous process but Blizzard can make up anything they want to justify it and it's still one of the highly requested allied races Horde players say they want to have. (Either that, or undead that don't hunch and can customize away from tattered features... basically grey, ghoulish humans.)
Also, after that Rexxar model, I'm expecting them to reveal a Mok'nathal or Ogre race using kul tiran models any time soon...

...but there'll still be no high elf allied race...
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  #307  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:24 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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If I were going to implement some version of High Elves instead of Void Elves, working strictly with what they had in Legion, I would have tied them in with the Court of Farondis and have them tied to the Blue Dragons of Azsuna. Take the Blood Elf model, give it Dragon Horns and Blue Eyes, maybe the option to have blue hair. not to dissimilar to Demon Hunters really. Lore would be the Court of Farondis introduces the Silver covenant, and the Dragons decide to merge themselves with what’s left of the High Elves to see if they could save both races.

That said, I like Void Elves.
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  #308  
Old 07-07-2018, 10:08 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
If I were going to implement some version of High Elves instead of Void Elves, working strictly with what they had in Legion, I would have tied them in with the Court of Farondis and have them tied to the Blue Dragons of Azsuna. Take the Blood Elf model, give it Dragon Horns and Blue Eyes, maybe the option to have blue hair. not to dissimilar to Demon Hunters really. Lore would be the Court of Farondis introduces the Silver covenant, and the Dragons decide to merge themselves with what’s left of the High Elves to see if they could save both races.

That said, I like Void Elves.
I really like Void Elves too and there's a part of me that thinks High Elf fans should just make do with them. (Most of them have I think, but there are some vocal ones still out there saying they were a mistake.)

Then again, another part of me really does feel bad for High Elf fans and I wish we could have gotten a more Shadow/Void-themed race without it coming at their expense. They really should have made Worgen more shadow-themed like they originally were when they were first introduced, or give us Krokul and made them more Void-themed with some inspiration from Dark Templars from the Starcraft series. Either one of those would have been just as cool as Void Elves to me and Blizzard could have set the High Elves out on a direction that would have been more palpable to High Elf fans.
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  #309  
Old 07-07-2018, 10:46 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I really like Void Elves too and there's a part of me that thinks High Elf fans should just make do with them. (Most of them have I think, but there are some vocal ones still out there saying they were a mistake.)

Then again, another part of me really does feel bad for High Elf fans and I wish we could have gotten a more Shadow/Void-themed race without it coming at their expense. They really should have made Worgen more shadow-themed like they originally were when they were first introduced, or give us Krokul and made them more Void-themed with some inspiration from Dark Templars from the Starcraft series. Either one of those would have been just as cool as Void Elves to me and Blizzard could have set the High Elves out on a direction that would have been more palpable to High Elf fans.
I am maining a void elf. It's the closest thing to a high elf that we have available, so I have no choice.

I'm campaign way more for void elves to get development than for us to get playable high elves. I keep coming to these threads just because people keep telling the same old non-arguments that the very existence of void elves debunked.

The problem with the void elves is that they seem off. Their lore were not built up in a natural way, they feel very empty. There's tons of questions about them that are still unanswered. So, how do Blizzard expect people, specially roleplayers and high elf fans, to feel any empathy with them?

I feel really cheated by the void elf introduction. Nightborne, to me, is the benchmark of quality for a new race. Highmountain tauren is close behind, and their recruitment questline is the benchmark for a good recruitment scenario. Void elves can't compare to those standards.

Void elves right now feel like this weird tiny cult of elves that are just researching the void. They don't feel like a true society, just a small bunch of blood elves that were turned blue. They also feel detached from the rest of the world, we have very little insight on their outlook on things or relationship with other races. They appeared from nowhere, live (literally) nowhere and are just tagging along the Alliance. It's really underwhelming.

I've posted a lot of suggestions and hopes about void elves for Blizzard and I hope they listen. But I think they'll remain loosely explained for quite some time ahead, and that's only ups my frustration.
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  #310  
Old 07-08-2018, 05:44 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I am maining a void elf. It's the closest thing to a high elf that we have available, so I have no choice.

I'm campaign way more for void elves to get development than for us to get playable high elves. I keep coming to these threads just because people keep telling the same old non-arguments that the very existence of void elves debunked.

The problem with the void elves is that they seem off. Their lore were not built up in a natural way, they feel very empty. There's tons of questions about them that are still unanswered. So, how do Blizzard expect people, specially roleplayers and high elf fans, to feel any empathy with them?

I feel really cheated by the void elf introduction. Nightborne, to me, is the benchmark of quality for a new race. Highmountain tauren is close behind, and their recruitment questline is the benchmark for a good recruitment scenario. Void elves can't compare to those standards.

Void elves right now feel like this weird tiny cult of elves that are just researching the void. They don't feel like a true society, just a small bunch of blood elves that were turned blue. They also feel detached from the rest of the world, we have very little insight on their outlook on things or relationship with other races. They appeared from nowhere, live (literally) nowhere and are just tagging along the Alliance. It's really underwhelming.

I've posted a lot of suggestions and hopes about void elves for Blizzard and I hope they listen. But I think they'll remain loosely explained for quite some time ahead, and that's only ups my frustration.
I see a lot of potential in their starting area if Blizz ever wants to flesh those out for allied races. Particularly if we go deeper into cosmology. They seem to be inferring heavily that Telogrus is the Old God infested world soul that Sargeras aborted.
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  #311  
Old 07-08-2018, 12:11 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I see a lot of potential in their starting area if Blizz ever wants to flesh those out for allied races. Particularly if we go deeper into cosmology. They seem to be inferring heavily that Telogrus is the Old God infested world soul that Sargeras aborted.
I get the cosmology potential, but I want to see them developed as a people first. That's what really bothers me: their lack of characterization. They feel like a plot device.

-----------------------------------

Here's what I'd have done if I had input on their recruitment questline:

First act: After talking to Anduin and choosing the void elves for recruitment, Alleria says she has already asked Vereesa to go ahead and search for clues on Umbric.

You and Alleria teleport to Ghostlands. Appear in Windrunner Village, which has been occupied (in a non-permanent sense, just a camp) by the Silver Covenant. Vereesa greets you, and you also find the following characters hanging around, each with its own gossip text.

Auric Sunchaser: He says his relationship with the blood elves has soured since the Purge of Dalaran, and he decided to seek Alleria since he heard she was back.

Theloria Shadecloak and Taelia Everstride followed Auric and decided to serve under Alleria.

Vereesa guides you and Alleria to Summoner Nolric (of the Silver Covenant), who has found evidence of Umbric (first message from Umbric, indicating next step in Andilien Estate).

Second Act: Instead of just Alleria, you are followed by Auric as well from now on. THe three of you reach Andilien Estate and fight blood elves there. Alleria shows some regret on fighting her own people, and they find the second piece of Umbric's records, leading to Dawnstar Spire.

Alleria sends Auric back to Vereesa, warning her troop to move and meet you at the tower. You and Alleria move on to the next part.

Third Act: You reach Dawnstar Spire, the Covenant is already there, with Vereesa and the others. Last piece of Umbric's records, Alleria opens the portal to Telogrus.

Before you enter, there's a small dialogue with Vereesa worried, so she sends a small cadre of rangers with her sister. Auric, Theloria, Taela and Nolric also go throught the portal.

Fourth Act (Scenario): You arrive at Telogrus, but at the northernmost island instead of the southern one. The elves there react cautiously to the sudden invasion, until two of them, Lyria Skystrider and Priest Ennas, reckognize Alleria and invites her to meet Umbric, who has a new named warrior character as bodyguard.

Umbric is met at the second island, and all named characters follow him as he describes his exile and his research, all the while we are moving south, until we reach the southern island, where the box is.

Umbric tries to open the box, the rest occurs almost like the in-game scenario. However, Umbric is not immediatelly captured. Instead, you, he and all named characters fight moving northward throught the islands, with more characters being captured and cocooned in void as you go.

Eventually, only you, Alleria and Umbric reach the northernmost island, where they face Durzaam. All of you are captured, but Alleria manages to free herself and you for the final fight. You defeat Durzaam as usual and save the day.

The conclusion: all the elves in Telogrus are transformed, including the Silver Covenant squad and the named high elves I listed prior. After Umbric regrets these events and swear allegiance to the Alliance, you return to Dawnstar Spire with Alleria and (now transformed) Auric. Vereesa reacts to the transformation, but Auric assures her he's still himself. Vereesa decides to support them however she can.

Alleria opens a portal to Stormwind, you conclude the recruitment.

What I'd be aiming to do with this:

* Establish a relationship between Silver Covenant and void elves instantly.

* Explain where their non-caster members would come from.

* Make canon that some Silver Covenant high elves were transformed by accident.

* Void elves now have two leaders (Auric and Umbric), who represent two different views: high elf trying to get used to this transformation, and blood elf seeking to study the void and master it.

* Establish a core cast of characters for void elves that represent their classes: Taelia Everstrider (Hunter), Theloria Shadecloak (Rogue), Nolric (Warlock), Lyria Skystrider and Ennas (priests) and Umbric's bodyguard (warrior).

Two other supporting characters that would appear later in Telogrus would be unchanged high elves: Kriss Goldenlight as their monk trainer, and Ros'eleth (my favorite high elf, lol) as innkeeper, giving support to the transformed elves.

That's how I'd manage to make void elves instantly more palatable to the high elf fans. Hopefully, it would ease their acceptance among the fanbase.
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  #312  
Old 07-08-2018, 12:17 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Just chiming in to say that if void elves were to get more development, and possibly fairer skintones added with the confirmation that high elves can turn themselves into void elves, I'd be finally content with them.
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  #313  
Old 07-08-2018, 12:50 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Just chiming in to say that if void elves were to get more development, and possibly fairer skintones added with the confirmation that high elves can turn themselves into void elves, I'd be finally content with them.
I don't see "normal" skin tones as required, but more variety in hair and skin color would be welcome. Also, warpaint, please.
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  #314  
Old 07-09-2018, 03:36 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I am maining a void elf. It's the closest thing to a high elf that we have available, so I have no choice.

I'm campaign way more for void elves to get development than for us to get playable high elves. I keep coming to these threads just because people keep telling the same old non-arguments that the very existence of void elves debunked.

The problem with the void elves is that they seem off. Their lore were not built up in a natural way, they feel very empty. There's tons of questions about them that are still unanswered. So, how do Blizzard expect people, specially roleplayers and high elf fans, to feel any empathy with them?

I feel really cheated by the void elf introduction. Nightborne, to me, is the benchmark of quality for a new race. Highmountain tauren is close behind, and their recruitment questline is the benchmark for a good recruitment scenario. Void elves can't compare to those standards.

Void elves right now feel like this weird tiny cult of elves that are just researching the void. They don't feel like a true society, just a small bunch of blood elves that were turned blue. They also feel detached from the rest of the world, we have very little insight on their outlook on things or relationship with other races. They appeared from nowhere, live (literally) nowhere and are just tagging along the Alliance. It's really underwhelming.

I've posted a lot of suggestions and hopes about void elves for Blizzard and I hope they listen. But I think they'll remain loosely explained for quite some time ahead, and that's only ups my frustration.
I won't disagree with any of that, the setup could have still been so much better and they need more cultural depth. I think Blizzard is making decent strides with them in the war campaign though. I didn't think they'd manage to fix the issue of Blood Elves rejecting shadow-using kin when they have Shadow Priests but they managed to do it by making them all Alliance loyalists to begin with who don't trust the Horde with Void knowledge. One might say it all seems a bit too coincidental and convenient for the sake of Alliance getting void-infused elves, but at the same time I think it's would of the best and perhaps even the more clever ways of making any sense of it.

For all the flak Void Elves get for being an asspull, I'm of the personal opinion actually that Nightborne are as much an asspull as Void Elves are. Saying that is tantamount to heresy on the forums because Nightborne are just so damn well-liked due to their storytelling in Legion. Doesn't change the fact that they still technically fit the definition of being an asspull race because we've never heard about them at all until Legion. An asspull race with a good story is still an asspull race and people conveniently just ignore that because the Nightborne had two patches worth of content dedicated to them.
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  #315  
Old 07-09-2018, 04:46 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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For all the flak Void Elves get for being an asspull, I'm of the personal opinion actually that Nightborne are as much an asspull as Void Elves are.
Oh, I agree. Nightborne are a huge asspull since Blizzard had to retcon the sunken ruins of Suramar into a living city trapped under a magic bubble no one ever mentioned despite ships being able to reach the islands.

The difference between the new elves is that nightborne got a great storyline right off the bat. They got named characters, motivations, a plight we can feel empathy for and a whole arc of redemption. Void elves got just a small scenario that was mostly action and almost no interaction.
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