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  #26  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:00 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
This is a thread to discuss politics from all nations with the exception of the United States of America. (As Cantus said he would keep it clean)

I'll start a topic about the Catalan Independence.

Here are some informative links first.

"Catalan separatism" in Wikipedia
"Some 1.5 million people have been taking part in Catalonia's annual independence rally in Barcelona." by BBC news
"Crisis fuels Catalan independence push" by Irish Times
"Catalonia rallies for independence on ‘Catalan National Day" by Washington Post

What is your position/opinion on situations like this where regions want independence from their country?

I personally think that it's foolish and that these people are depowering themselves for a vague and vain sense of nationalism(regionalism???). Kosovo is a lesson is a good lesson of this with their separation from Serbia causing vast problems on international diplomacy with countries like Spain have to deny considering Kosovo a country because it would legitimize independence movements within their their own country.

But then again it's their democratic wish, can we truly deny them that just because "we know better"? This also makes me kinda of a hypocrite because i fully support the democratic wishes of the people from Falkland to remain in the British nation.

So what's your opinion?(sorry for any grammatical problems)
Don't believe stupid propaganda, 1.5 millions? lol, no.

These kind of things (demonstrations, asking impossible stuff to cry about the evil repression...) are typical from the nationalists. Quick fact: They don't want independence. They want privileges. They use this as a menace, a blackmail.

Still, mark my words. The Catalonian politicians have brainwashed their citizens too much, and they could reach a no-return point soon. One of the main things they complain about is that, for them to be independent, all of Spain must vote to decide or to let them decide. Obviously, they benefited from being part of Spain, and they can't just leave, taking away inversions from the entire country.

The problem is a lot of people is fed up. Fed up of the nationalists fucking up the parliament, fed up of the constant menaces and demands that shit on every other Spanish autonomous community, fed up on insults from Catalonian politicians, fed up on lies of the rest of the country stealing their money, when Catalonia gets back more than what they give. The nationalists even suggested removing all the autonomous communities except theirs.

Some people is starting to support letting them leave, for a simple reason: They're tired. It's a basic "fuck them and let them rot, just leave us alone".

In the end, all the Spanish nationalisms are about the money. They want control, they want more benefits, they want to parasite the rest of Spain, claiming 1000 years old kingdoms craps. We feed them, again and again, so they would shut up, but they know no limits.

There's a photo that defines how brainwashed and fucked up Catalonian nationalists are right now. It shows some guys, on the latest demonstration, carrying a big banner, saying "Catalunya, nou estat d'Europa".

And those idiots really believe it, even when the European Union has expulsion laws for seceded countries, and some high European authorities have made emphasis on them lately. Not to talk about how France and the United Kingdom would rape the shit out of them to avoid any sort of contagion.

But well, they'll keep saying "Madrit ens roba" (Madrid, the capital, steals from us) while the nationalist government cuts health and education, but keeps active hundreds of official cars, 50+ embassies, 7 TV channels... and gives millions to "defend" the culture of Catalonia.

Everyone I know agreed on the same thing when they started organizing the 11S demonstration. The way the TV was manipulated, and how they hired buses with public money to bring people to the demonstration, is just a mirror of the fascist Spanish dictatorship. And the way the information is manipulated, and how they repeat lies and lies until everyone believes them, would make Goebbels proud.

But our government is retarded, so they won't draw any limits, and we'll probably keep talking about this shit instead of the crisis...
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2012, 04:51 PM
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I'll tell you guys what's my stance on nationalism and separatism.

First of all, I fully believe that it is the right for every ethnic group and nation to choose for themselves who they want to be governed by. No other ethnic group or political force has the right to impose their authority upon people who don't identify themselves with their rulers. Saying otherwise would be hypocritical, as my nation has struggled for independence from our colonial rulers in the past.

Despiite this, for those people who do feel the need to be freed from the shackles of their foreign rulers, one must ask the simple question: why? Why is it that I need to create my own nation? Will separatism bring more good or harm to my people?

There are many ethnic groups in the world who are being racially prejudiced, oppressed and treated as second-class citizens by the majority. We've seen countless racially-motivated aggressions and murders in the news that I don't feel the need to give you examples. However, there are other ethnic groups who just happen to have different traditions and speak a different language than the rest of the people of the country they live in. They live a perfectly normal life and are not abused or prejudiced in any way, yet there are many who feel that their cultural pride and heritage must come above anything else; that their identity calls out to them to freedom.

If cultural pride is the only reason that you can bring forward to justify your desire for independence, you're just an arrogant person and you're just asking for trouble. In fact, that's what nationalist politicians do to get attention. They speak out blissful words of independence and freedom, but in reality they only do so to get people to vote for them; in essence, they're no more than populists trying to gain the support of their people. It's even stupider if you consider the economical climate that the world is in now. If a region or state decides to separate itself from the country, what economic benefits will it bring you?

Lastly, I'd also like to point out that multicultural societies of multiple ethnic groups living together already exist. Switzerland is a perfect example: neither the French, German or Italian-speaking regions want to be a separate country because of cultural or linguistic reasons.

I'd also like to provide you with a map of all of Europe's supposed "minorities". Imagine if they all wanted independence, Europe would be a fucking mess:

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  #28  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:03 PM
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:28 PM
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Spain has been poor and lacking on the international stage for the last 200 years, If the Basques and the Catalans were seeking independence from Britain France or Germany, you may have a point, but Spain is small fry.
Which would make Basques and Catalans even smaller, useless fries.
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  #30  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:45 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.

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It is not surprising that Germans are wondering what is going on in their country today. Many realize that multiculturalism is a destructive, failed policy and that they are destined to experience many more such violent, “culturally enriching” moments in the future.
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  #31  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:50 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Scania for the Scanes!!
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:54 PM
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Scania for the Scanes!!
Swedish race is master race.
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2012, 05:55 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.
This is the wrong thread for this shit. Take it to one of the three conservative wank-threads we already have.
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  #34  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
You'd think Muslims would be fine with the Holocaust, after all, it was just "Zionist Oppressors" getting killed.

Than there's this.
I'm going to put this to you as simply as possible. Stay the fuck out of this thread, on pain of suspension. If you want to express hate speech, go to storm front or some other racist board. You do it here, I fuck you up.
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:13 PM
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I'm going to put this to you as simply as possible. Stay the fuck out of this thread, on pain of suspension. If you want to express hate speech, go to storm front or some other racist board. You do it here, I fuck you up.
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  #36  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:14 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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  #37  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:14 PM
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Go wank it to your uranium enriched real doll, mother fucker.
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:17 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Go wank it to your uranium enriched real doll, mother fucker.
Learn to take a complement, dude.
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:19 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I think that Omacron should be banned. Dude has REALLY overstayed his welcome.
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  #40  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:21 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I think that Omacron should be banned. Dude has REALLY overstayed his welcome.
I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.
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  #41  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:22 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.
You fiend.
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  #42  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:22 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.
That's like threatening Bolvar by saying that if he fucks with you you'll fly a plane into the Twin Towers.
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"Noble countrymen, evil is upon us. Darkness has befallen our shores. Rise and slay thy enemies� strike, strike so others shall live. The meek shall not fade into the night� live my brethren, live." - King Terenas Menethil II
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  #43  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.
Sabotaging the lore means destroying this forum's raison d'être, since we're all here because of a common love of Warcraft lore. In effect, you'll jeopardize Scrolls of Lore's existence.

Then again, many of us only stay here to talk about politics and controversial topics.
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  #44  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:33 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Sabotaging the lore means destroying this forum's raison d'être, since we're all here because of a common love of Warcraft lore. In effect, you'll jeopardize Scrolls of Lore's existence.
Scorched motherfuckin' Earth.
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  #45  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:34 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Scorched motherfuckin' Earth.
Now you're talkin' my language!
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  #46  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:39 PM
Chef Chef is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Scorched motherfuckin' Earth.
« Cela dépasse tout : c'est une guerre d'extermination, c'est une tactique horrible, sans précédent dans l'histoire de la civilisation. Brûler ses propres villes ! Le démon inspire ces gens. Des barbares. Quelle résolution farouche, quelle audace. »
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  #47  
Old 09-22-2012, 06:54 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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« Cela dépasse tout : c'est une guerre d'extermination, c'est une tactique horrible, sans précédent dans l'histoire de la civilisation. Brûler ses propres villes ! Le démon inspire ces gens. Des barbares. Quelle résolution farouche, quelle audace. »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX_NeOkcFec

Also, Chef confirmed as Quebecois.
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Last edited by Cantus; 09-22-2012 at 07:20 PM..
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  #48  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:07 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Chef View Post
« Cela dépasse tout : c'est une guerre d'extermination, c'est une tactique horrible, sans précédent dans l'histoire de la civilisation. Brûler ses propres villes ! Le démon inspire ces gens. Des barbares. Quelle résolution farouche, quelle audace. »
"It goes like this: it's a war of extermination, it's a horrible tactica, without presence in the history of civilization. Bruler is a proper village! The demon(s) inspire(s) these men. These barbarians. [Something about resolutions and maybe audacity.]"

I wonder how much my scant exposure to French and my native Spanglish got right on this.
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  #49  
Old 09-22-2012, 07:56 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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"What unbridled resolution, what audacity!"
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  #50  
Old 09-22-2012, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I've got a hotline to CDev. Fuck with me and I'll convince them to sabotage the lore.


Elune being a naaru is just the first step.
One day Omacron, your going to be going to class. Your going to sit there, listening to your professor, and when your class is over, your going to get up, run to the door, and BAM. Like a ghost, someone dressed as Batmans going to kick you in the nuts in front of everyone,

And a Burt Ward Robin is going to take a set of hair clippers to the back of your head.

And filming the entire thing? A giant dude with a paper Sean Connery mask taped to his face, yelling "Bane my ass"

And on that day, Omacron, you will receive a PM from me with a link. A link to Youtube. Where your shame will forever be immortalized.
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