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  #26  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:37 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
Terenas wasn't a priest.

Being okay with torture and being against killing all the orcs are hardly competing opinions for Terenas to hold.
He mass rezzed raiders.

So torturing your people for reasons is fine.

Killing a demonic ailen army that you knew next to nothing about is not fine?

Killing people infected with a zombie plague is not fine?

What was the point of Varian being pissed at forsaken experiments and thinking highly of Lordaeron?
  #27  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:38 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
He mass rezzed raiders.

So torturing your people for reasons is fine.

Killing a demonic ailen army that you knew next to nothing about is not fine?

Killing people infected with a zombie plague is not fine?

What was the point of Varian being pissed at forsaken experiments and thinking highly of Lordaeron?
You can debate the moral righteousness of his position, but it's not inconceivable that a monarch who employed a torturer was also against the principle of genocide.
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  #28  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:45 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
He mass rezzed raiders.

So torturing your people for reasons is fine.

Killing a demonic ailen army that you knew next to nothing about is not fine?

Killing people infected with a zombie plague is not fine?

What was the point of Varian being pissed at forsaken experiments and thinking highly of Lordaeron?
Morality is not binary.

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Apparently Terenas was a paladin before paladins were invented, though.
I always assumed that that was meant to refer to Arthas and they just wrote the wrong name by accident.
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:50 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
He mass rezzed raiders.
And? He mass rezzed raiders as a spirit, aided by all the other spirits unleashed from within Frostmourne. Spirits that also managed to pin the Lich King in place and prevent him from just killing the raiders again. Not exactly a case of the same guy showing up with the same powers he had in life and doing something he could always have done.
  #30  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:51 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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You can debate the moral righteousness of his position, but it's not inconceivable that a monarch who employed a torturer was also against the principle of genocide.
I'm debating the logic of screwing with your own people but sparing an foreign army that tried to kill you. Did they have any reason to believe the entire population of orca were going to be killed? What about the planet they came from? Did they know it was destroyed? Did they not think about the orcs scattered across the EK?
  #31  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:53 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Apparently Terenas was a paladin before paladins were invented, though.
Not too much of a stretch to think that at some point during the entirety of pre-Alliance history some priest though to himself "Y'know, I sure would like to hit someone with a big fucking sword."
  #32  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:54 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I'm debating the logic of screwing with your own people
He's not screwing with his own people. He's taking steps to ensure that sedition and treason are kept in check.

It's standard procedure for a monarchy.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:55 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I'm debating the logic of screwing with your own people but sparing an foreign army that tried to kill you. Did they have any reason to believe the entire population of orca were going to be killed? What about the planet they came from? Did they know it was destroyed? Did they not think about the orcs scattered across the EK?
Alrighty then. Gonna need citations of the Lordaeroni he personally had tortured then. because you're conjuring up an awful lot of assumptions here.

"Screwing with your own people?" Just because the government of Lordaeron employed torturers in an official capacity doesn't mean they were rounding up their own citizens and torturing them all the time. Just like the existence of SI:7 doesn't mean Varian's routinely having his own citizens assassinated.

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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
He's not screwing with his own people. He's taking steps to ensure that sedition and treason are kept in check.

It's standard procedure for a monarchy.
If that's even what it was used for. The human kingdoms have historically fought with nonhuman enemies, after all. Would it be that surprising if they interrogated trollish prisoners at one point?

Last edited by ARM3481; 01-05-2013 at 10:59 PM..
  #34  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:56 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I'm debating the logic of screwing with your own people but sparing an foreign army that tried to kill you. Did they have any reason to believe the entire population of orcs were going to be killed? What about the planet they came from? Did they know it was destroyed? Did they not think about the orcs scattered across the EK?
I don't understand why you're so convinced that these two situation have anything to do with each other.

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Did they have any reason to believe the entire population of orca were going to be killed?
http://www.savethewhales.org/
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:01 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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So what if Terenas had torture chambers? That just proves that, even though he was noble, he was still willing to punish and interrogate enemies. And this reinforces my point that even

In my opinion, this improves his characterization.

And Terenas was no priest. He wasn't even able to fight. He was just a noble king.

Those chambers were probably for criminals, and enemies.
  #36  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:05 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Call of duty 1 View Post
Those chambers were probably for criminals, and enemies.
Maybe Terenas was into BDSM.
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  #37  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:05 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
The man was a priest who spared the orcs out of morality.
Even if he was a priest, which he wasn't, doesn't mean that he would never have someone tortured.
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  #38  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:07 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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If Terenas had a device that mind controlled people he wouldn't need to torture.
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  #39  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
Not too much of a stretch to think that at some point during the entirety of pre-Alliance history some priest though to himself "Y'know, I sure would like to hit someone with a big fucking sword."
But he's depicted as a "young paladin holding a hammer".
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  #40  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:11 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
Even if he was a priest, which he wasn't, doesn't mean that he would never have someone tortured.
Exactly.
  #41  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:12 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Call of duty 1 View Post
And Terenas was no priest. He wasn't even able to fight. He was just a noble king.
Damn shame too. That stunt that Arthas pulled would never have worked if it was Varian on that throne.
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  #42  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:13 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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If Terenas had a device that mind controlled people he wouldn't need to torture.
Admittedly the device seems predicated upon the subject's will being broken first, considering the Scarlets only denounce the Onslaught right before they die.

It seems less a mind control device and more a means to either get coherent answers out of an already broken subject, or perhaps a workaround to get said answers from someone who's been magically warded to prevent them from speaking under duress.

The latter would make sense in a world like Azeroth; Deathwing did it to Krasus, so a powerful mage might feasibly curse a mortal human to be unable to answer certain questions no matter how much they want to.
  #43  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:13 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Damn shame too. That stunt that Arthas pulled would never have worked if it was Varian on that throne.
I'm pretty sure it would have, it just would have taken slightly longer.
  #44  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:15 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
I'm pretty sure it would have, it just would have taken slightly longer.
Varian wouldn't get held down by one hand. He wouldn't need to kill Arthas, he'd just need to get away and Varian has the speed advantage.
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  #45  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:18 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Not to mention, you know, guards in the immediate vicinity... And everyone else who can bear arms in the city.
  #46  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:20 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Sparing an army of people trying to kill you is fine? Did they even say they were killing kids?

Torturing criminals, traitors or suspected is fine? Instead of interrogation, exile, imprisoning or simply killing them?

Again, where was it said that killing their army would've killed off the Orc population? You still had ogrim, grom, the frost wolves, the orcs in Outland (weren't there missions there?)

The issue is that the Alliance takes harsher action against human criminals than they do towards Horde soldiers

Edit: if Terenas spared orcs for torture, because they were heathens or for info, fine. The other kingdoms would've wanted quick deaths out of logic, revenge, or even mercy. But none of them did.

Last edited by Noitora; 01-05-2013 at 11:28 PM..
  #47  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:23 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
But he's depicted as a "young paladin holding a hammer".
You're referring to the statue from the boat in the Wetlands, right? Keep in mind that the word "paladin" tends to be thrown about rather willy-nilly in the game, and generally refers to the class rather than actual true Paladins.
  #48  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:27 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
If Terenas had a device that mind controlled people he wouldn't need to torture.
The quest giver says Lordaeron had a torture chamber during Terenas's reign. He worked in it.
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It's one thing to have problems and voice your concerns, but when you endlessly bitch day in and day out about the same tired old shit, it honestly makes me wonder why you are even here. Generally when somebody doesn't like something, they stop caring about it.

And on that note, SoL is a forum I no longer enjoy. So, I'm done here. And I genuinely think the people who have absolutely nothing at all positive to say about the game and, the people whose posts are composed entirely of whining, really consider leaving (or at least sticking to non-WoW sections). Because if you truly get no enjoyment out of WoW, then why are you here?

With that said, goodbye.
  #49  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:28 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Sparing an army of people trying to kill you is fine? Did they even say they were killing kids?

Torturing criminals, traitors or suspected is fine? Instead of interrogation, exile, imprisoning or simply killing them?

Again, where was it said that killing their army would've killed off the Orc population? You still had ogrim, grom, the frost wolves, the orcs in Outland (weren't there missions there?)

The issue is that the Alliance takes harsher action against human criminals than they do towards Horde soldiers
lol. You don't know who was tortured in those chambers, you know how the Alliance treated the orcs in the internment camps.
  #50  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:30 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Sparing an army of people trying to kill you is fine? Did they even say they were killing kids?
Terenas seemed to think so. They were a defeated army, which puts any killing in a different context than casualties of war.

You're the only one bringing up children.
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Torturing criminals, traitors or suspected is fine? Instead of interrogation, exile, imprisoning or simply killing them?
Torture is a form of interrogation.

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Again, where was it said that killing their army would've killed off the Orc population?
Nobody has said that.
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The issue is that the Alliance takes harsher action against human criminals than they do towards Horde soldiers
Internment camps are a pretty harsh action.
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