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  #55476  
Old 07-15-2017, 03:41 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
1. No I didn't.
Well you said to talk policy and not post videos. Why don't you like videos? I didn't think they had a policy.
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2. Maybe you should read more liberal media that you disagree with to better understand opposing points of view.
They think government is benign outside of the police and military. They think capitalism is greedy. It doesn't really relate to people that don't think the government is benign, like the police and military, and think capitalism has contributed immensely to living standards and progress.
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3. Well that's a shame, hopefully we'll see some decrease in political tension in the future.
I am not optimistic. The chasm just grows bigger. Look at Trump. A very flawed candidate that has become my best option.
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4. No one's said you don't belong.
That isn't true. A lot of my friends left this forum recently.
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5. If you're nursing resentment from a conversation we had the other day then that's a whole different can of worms, as for my belief that you're acting in bad faith, that's based on my experiences with you.
It is multiple conversations. It is usually how you converse with people.

You accused Ruinshin of bad faith too. I think it is a new word you learned. You can't just accuse anyone that challenges you of being in bad faith. That is delusional. We all have our own lives and no one cares about you enough to just mess with you.

This flimsy excuse making is why we were never heal our partisan wounds. You don't care what I have to say when you can just write it off as unimportant. Everyday I become every so grateful that we have a constitution and elections. The people in power do the exact same thing because it isn't until they feel that they will lose power that they will start listening.
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6. As you've just stated, people IN your group already give you flack for differing, why would branching out be any worse?
It wasn't that much flack. It isn't like they called me naive, retarded, or evil or anything. They just assumed I was doing it because she was a woman.

But really most liberals I know in real life aren't like you. They don't hate Trump as viciously as you see here. No one talks about the Russian thing. Most people are pretty happy with Trump or indifferent. It makes it a lot easier to talk to them when they don't seem to take it so personally.
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7. Same could be said of you.
What mean thing have I said about you?
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  #55477  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:36 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post

It's a good question, actually. I mean, clearly they have anti-fascist policies and stances. But what does that entail in reality? What are their actual plans for the future should their movement make significant progress? Can the organization even be considered a group in and of itself? Aren't they more of a conglomerate of various leftist group, with varying (sometimes incoherent) beliefs and stances?
ANTIFA is widely known for being Anarcho-Communist, often waving the standard black and red flag of Anarcho-Communism in their marches.

It shouldn't really be surprising that they believe in the legitimacy of political violence given the history of Communists and groups like the Black Bloc (Anarchists).

Fascist is anyone to the right of them which makes you their enemy unless you're some type of Marxist, "liberals get the bullet too".

The Alt-right also have their political beliefs which are pretty damn horrendous. It can range anywhere between repealing the 14 amendment to return the freedom to discriminate and returning to 1960s (in the US) immigration laws to full on "Day of the Rope" hang every nonwhite and every traitor. "Always kill a traitor before an enemy."

Not a fun bunch.
the less extreme ones can be "alright" to talk to but the radicals would rather gut each other on the street and start the next civil war.
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  #55478  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:04 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like people are fleeing the failing Republican party.
http://www.chicagonow.com/politics-n...ocratic-party/
This dude spent years in it, first campaigning for Nixon then working under Ronnie, Dubya, etc writing trade policy papers, raising money, and other stuff.

Also, Karl is at it again with being cool.
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  #55479  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:35 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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U.S. veterans are generally supportive of Trump

http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/obama-legacy-military

The Percentage of US Military Veterans Who Still Support Trump Is Astonishing

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...erans-approve/

I think it can be interesting to see who claims to support someone and who those people support. Who really lives in reality when it comes to foreign policy? The people executing it and suffering the blunt of the consequences for it or the people thousands of miles away who mostly speculate and probably don't know a single veteran? It is a very highly fetishized facet of society but one that is often ignored when it is inconvenient. Too small of a minority to make a more personal impact on society and often misunderstood.

I think the repealing of the draft while improved military readiness had a negative impact on our culture. People used to have a bigger investment in and had first hand experience on how defense operates. When the drafties from the Vietnam Era start to pass away this will become much worse and the remaining veterans will become a more estranged minority. That concept that people have skin in the game in our war operations and that first hand experience I think is really valuable when it comes to policy making. I don't want to see a draft return but more civic involvement in the armed forces I think would greatly benefit our society. If anything from the Trump administration is remembered I hope it is the appointment of Mattis and the trust and faith he puts in him and other people with that pragmatic experience. People don't want to be sent to their deaths to an uncertain trumpet that doesn't understand or believe in their sacrifice. It is already expecting a lot for someone to do something knowing that they might have to die for something bigger than themselves.
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  #55480  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:49 PM
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Bill Clinton was a deviant that was carried through his presidency by congress and his predecessor.
No, he was simply awesome. His personal life matters not.
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  #55481  
Old 07-15-2017, 04:59 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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No, he was simply awesome. His personal life matters not.
What was his crown policy achievement? He gets kudos for working with congress and being a moderate but he made a lot of personal mistakes. I think he did a lot better when he lost control of congress than when he had it. Things confined to the executive like foreign policy weren't so great under his watch.
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  #55482  
Old 07-15-2017, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
What was his crown policy achievement? He gets kudos for working with congress and being a moderate but he made a lot of personal mistakes. I think he did a lot better when he lost control of congress than when he had it. Things confined to the executive like foreign policy weren't so great under his watch.
The economy worked great under him, and the US didn't get stuck with nasty war like we did later.

A lot of women like him as well.
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  #55483  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:23 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Remember when Mitch "the Bitch" McConnell told President Obama that he would take any reveal or mention of Russian collusion as a partisan attack? How much about it do you think he knew at the time?
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  #55484  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:31 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ar...pe_134440.html

It is frustrating how difficult it is to reform and restrain the bureaucracy. Many states have done it successful while others like Illinois have succumb to it. The VA has long been plagued with problems and just this year has fired hundreds of employees due to new accountability measures. I hope it spreads to other functions of government because they have the same issues. There is little accountability and little incentive for improvement.

Here is a list of VA firings.

https://www.va.gov/accountability/Ad...ons_Report.pdf

It is just a bunch of bad incentives that makes the civil servants more of a special interest. It breeds complacency and parochialism. Unelected bureaucrats shouldn't be able to make rules and poor performers should be disciplined. There is so much waste that could be better spent elsewhere and incompetent rule making just weakens our economy.
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  #55485  
Old 07-16-2017, 03:02 AM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
The economy worked great under him, and the US didn't get stuck with nasty war like we did later.

A lot of women like him as well.
According to people who know him these days, he's liking a lot of women too.
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  #55486  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:09 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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According to people who know him these days, he's liking a lot of women too.
He was also accused of sexual harassment and rape his entire life. It just doesn't matter because he supported the cause. The perpetrator and targeted victims matter more than the crime.
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  #55487  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:34 PM
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He was also accused of sexual harassment and rape his entire life. It just doesn't matter because he supported the cause. The perpetrator and targeted victims matter more than the crime.
How did the US react during the impeachment scandal? I was little at that time and thought it was his private business.
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  #55488  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:41 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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How did the US react during the impeachment scandal? I was little at that time and thought it was his private business.
I am sure it depends on your political persuasion. Cheating on your wife isn't illegal and neither is banging up presidential interns. Perjury is though. He was impeached, had his license to practice law suspended, and was fined.
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  #55489  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I am sure it depends on your political persuasion. Cheating on your wife isn't illegal and neither is banging up presidential interns. Perjury is though. He was impeached, had his license to practice law suspended, and was fined.
I don't think everything has to do with political persuasion. Yeah it was wrong to cheat on your wife, but if there was no need to remove him from office as long as there is no dirty deal behind the sexual relationship.
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  #55490  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:54 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Jeff "I liked the KKK until I found out they smoke pot" Sessions has been caught lying again, this time about "sanctuary city" policies breeding crime. His proof of his claim was a study that says they don't.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000067
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  #55491  
Old 07-16-2017, 04:57 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't think everything has to do with political persuasion. Yeah it was wrong to cheat on your wife, but if there was no need to remove him from office as long as there is no dirty deal behind the sexual relationship.
Removing someone from office requires a lot more votes than impeaching them. He broke the law which is what got him impeached but his conduct we antithetical to American values. There are concerns that the sexual harassment accusations that followed him and that he even paid settlements for won't see an honest trial because of who he is and was. Even self-proclaimed feminists will look the other way if other priorities can be satisfied.
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  #55492  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
Removing someone from office requires a lot more votes than impeaching them. He broke the law which is what got him impeached but his conduct we antithetical to American values. There are concerns that the sexual harassment accusations that followed him and that he even paid settlements for won't see an honest trial because of who he is and was. Even self-proclaimed feminists will look the other way if other priorities can be satisfied.
If I was him I would just admit it in trial, what could have happened?

He's a guy and he makes mistakes, but I still like him as a president.
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  #55493  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:06 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Jeff "I liked the KKK until I found out they smoke pot" Sessions has been caught lying again, this time about "sanctuary city" policies breeding crime. His proof of his claim was a study that says they don't.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000067
I mean, technically speaking, if there are a larger amount of people in a sanctuary city that are here illegally, then yes, sanctuary cities policies are breeding crime. The crime of being here illegally.

Every second an illegal immigrant is on US soil, they are breaking the law.
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  #55494  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:13 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
If I was him I would just admit it in trial, what could have happened?

He's a guy and he makes mistakes, but I still like him as a president.
He shouldn't have done it and some of the other accusations were much more serious than perjury.

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I mean, technically speaking, if there are a larger amount of people in a sanctuary city that are here illegally, then yes, sanctuary cities policies are breeding crime. The crime of being here illegally.

Every second an illegal immigrant is on US soil, they are breaking the law.
I just trust police officers and prosecutors that are in charge of safe cities than I do a federally sponsored study. The latter has politicians to placate. Too many variables and ambiguity with a perverse incentive just produces bad science.
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  #55495  
Old 07-16-2017, 05:17 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I mean, technically speaking, if there are a larger amount of people in a sanctuary city that are here illegally, then yes, sanctuary cities policies are breeding crime. The crime of being here illegally.

Every second an illegal immigrant is on US soil, they are breaking the law.
While technically correct, that wasn't what he was talking about.
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  #55496  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:01 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
While technically correct, that wasn't what he was talking about.
Being technically correct is the best type of correct.
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  #55497  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:12 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Being technically correct is the best type of correct.
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  #55498  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:11 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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http://www.military.com/daily-news/2...=todayinmil.sm

The VA accountability act seems to be wildly successful. Apply it to the rest of the government! The government exists to serve the tax payers not government made jobs.
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  #55499  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:13 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Looks like we're in for a very bloody administration.
"Nearly as many Iraqi and Syrian civilians have died in US-led air strikes under Donald Trump as were killed during the whole administration of Barack Obama, independent analysts say.
As of 13 July, more than 2,200 civilians had been killed by the US-led international coalition against Isis since Donald Trump entered the White house in January - compared with the estimated 2,300 civilians who died during similar strikes between 2014 and 2016."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7844526.html
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  #55500  
Old 07-17-2017, 06:19 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Looks like we're in for a very bloody administration.
"Nearly as many Iraqi and Syrian civilians have died in US-led air strikes under Donald Trump as were killed during the whole administration of Barack Obama, independent analysts say.
As of 13 July, more than 2,200 civilians had been killed by the US-led international coalition against Isis since Donald Trump entered the White house in January - compared with the estimated 2,300 civilians who died during similar strikes between 2014 and 2016."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7844526.html

Goddamn, that's horrifying. How can they justify that?
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