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  #1576  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:35 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Tirassian humans could very well get druids and shamans.
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  #1577  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:08 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Tirassian humans could very well get druids and shamans.
I can't see what leads you that thoughtline? I thought all the druidic stuff was Drust. Did i miss something to that nature?

Assuming i did miss something I'd really hope they don't go that route. its tacky enough that the signs suggest they're going with some strange "Some Kul'tirans are randomly fucking massive and no-one ever mentioned this before" plot point but stretching them to being druidic/shamanic too? It'd take away from the Gilnean Harvest witches too.

Kul'tiras honestly had all the flavour it ever needed prior to this expansion. They're the Navy nation, they don't need half giants and nature based nonsense. I'd hope anything druidic is limited to the Drust.
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  #1578  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:20 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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They're not massive, that's just a different model. They have the same general size as any human. They'd be shaman because of the drust influence.
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  #1579  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:36 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Tirassian humans could very well get druids and shamans.
Humans are already over-played enough. Giving them every class in the game we might as well delete the other races.
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  #1580  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:38 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
They're not massive, that's just a different model. They have the same general size as any human. They'd be shaman because of the drust influence.
But every single time we've seen an image of a Kul Tiran NPC using the new model, it's like three feet taller than all the other regular model Kul Tirans around it.

Also, I saw a thread on MMO-Champion pointing out something interesting, what if the Kul in Kul Tiras is from Vrykul, and those giant ones are just Kul Tirans with more vrykul DNA or genetic traits.

It's just the kind of manufactured unplanned coincidence that gave us Tirisfal/Tyr's Fall and Genn Greymane becoming a worgen.
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  #1581  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:42 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
I can't see what leads you that thoughtline? I thought all the druidic stuff was Drust. Did i miss something to that nature?

Assuming i did miss something I'd really hope they don't go that route. its tacky enough that the signs suggest they're going with some strange "Some Kul'tirans are randomly fucking massive and no-one ever mentioned this before" plot point but stretching them to being druidic/shamanic too? It'd take away from the Gilnean Harvest witches too.

Kul'tiras honestly had all the flavour it ever needed prior to this expansion. They're the Navy nation, they don't need half giants and nature based nonsense. I'd hope anything druidic is limited to the Drust.
Since Ethenil brought this up in the fallout of our discussion on discord, I will try to answer this for him, using the points brought up there.

1) Before the Light, humanity was strong on crude druidism and shamanism.

2) Kul Tiras is an island nation, which often tend to be rather distinct culturally, usually in a traditionalist way thanks to the quite large isolation of the rural populace.

3) The Sea Priests seem to be, at least based off of the information we have so far, quite heavy on elementalism at their core (particularly water and air). Coupled with both 1) and 2), this would give enough potential validity to playable shamans.

4) Kul Tiras was founded by Gilnean sailors, something that can be even slightly felt in the DNA of their architecture. Coupled with both 1) and 2), this would give enough potential validity to playable druids.

5) Many also theorize the Drustvar come from the Vrykul, and that the early people of Kul Tiras bred with the last of them, giving some Tirasian families a rather different heritage and also explaining how a segment of the population has so distinct traits, such as being far taller and massive. Coupled with 1), 2), and perhaps even 4), this would give enough potential validity to playable druids.

There's also the thing that from what we have seen so far, it does not seem Kul Tiras would be as heavy on the Light as Lordaeron and Stormwind, perhaps even less that Gilneas. Some have even argued they should not have paladins or even priests at all.

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Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Humans are already over-played enough. Giving them every class in the game we might as well delete the other races.
We are not talking about the playable humans here, but of an allied race.

Last edited by Marthen; 11-20-2017 at 08:45 AM..
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  #1582  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:35 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Since Ethenil brought this up in the fallout of our discussion on discord, I will try to answer this for him, using the points brought up there.

1) Before the Light, humanity was strong on crude druidism and shamanism.

2) Kul Tiras is an island nation, which often tend to be rather distinct culturally, usually in a traditionalist way thanks to the quite large isolation of the rural populace.

3) The Sea Priests seem to be, at least based off of the information we have so far, quite heavy on elementalism at their core (particularly water and air). Coupled with both 1) and 2), this would give enough potential validity to playable shamans.

4) Kul Tiras was founded by Gilnean sailors, something that can be even slightly felt in the DNA of their architecture. Coupled with both 1) and 2), this would give enough potential validity to playable druids.

5) Many also theorize the Drustvar come from the Vrykul, and that the early people of Kul Tiras bred with the last of them, giving some Tirasian families a rather different heritage and also explaining how a segment of the population has so distinct traits, such as being far taller and massive. Coupled with 1), 2), and perhaps even 4), this would give enough potential validity to playable druids.

There's also the thing that from what we have seen so far, it does not seem Kul Tiras would be as heavy on the Light as Lordaeron and Stormwind, perhaps even less that Gilneas. Some have even argued they should not have paladins or even priests at all.
Good to see you Marthen, I don't believe we've spoken since the Wow movie cratered. You bring up some fair points:

1) I will give you that I forgot about the shamanism aspect of the earlier humans/proto vrykul but i don't really buy Druidism. Even Gilnean Harvest-witches only had some elements of the craft and needed Night Elves to teach them the rest. Them having forms earlier than their Night Elf contact is really a game-before-lore thing. Growing plants is a long way from turning into animals.

2) Fair but i'l get back to this point.

3) Fair enough, point conceded. I'd buy into Kul'tiran Shaman. I even like the idea of them a bit. Controlling the sea/weather would be a very valuable asset to a naval nation and i could see Shaman in high regard as such.

4) Granted but this assumes we had a decent amount of "harvest-witch" likes that traveled to found Kul'tiras to start with. I'm hypothesizing here but since I don't recall ever meeting a Vrykul Druid (This bear is supposedly theorized to be such but it could easily just be Blizzard wanting a unique bear model that fits. They went out of the way to keep him as a bear when he dies after all) and the Harvest witches were stated to be very low in number I'd guess the chance of a decent number of them being sailors that founded Kul'tiras would be very miniscule. So possible I guess but I think you're along the same population level of High Elves at that point.

5) I can't say you're wrong but I really dislike this potential turn of events. Kul'tiras was well documented and active amongst humanity throughout much of the earlier history. It sits badly with me that the fact a good chunk of them are as Igod puts it "3 feet taller than those around them" and especially so that this apparently never came up beforehand at all. It's also never suggested that Kul'tiras was in any sense of isolation from Alliance affairs prior to the Daelin incident. Hell Jaina studied at Dalaran and Arthas and her parents conversed regarding their union quite frequently. Considering how connected they were I'd also find it odd they didn't have some version of the Light unless they actively rejected it (possible considering how useful shamanism would be to a Navy nation) but i wouldn't expect Paladins either.
Also as a minor addendum, it seems odd that any Kul'tirans would breed with a race they exterminated and that the offspring would be allowed to remain with them in any fashion. Not impossible but it certainly raises an eyebrow. Overall, while i can't disprove you here I must reiterate I really, really don't like it and hope they keep the Druidism to the Drust.
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  #1583  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:19 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Is there any reason to think that the return of Kul Tiras will lead to more Classes for playable Humans?

Do we even know one way or the other if there are going to be any race-class unlocks in Battle?
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  #1584  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:39 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Is there any reason to think that the return of Kul Tiras will lead to more Classes for playable Humans?

Do we even know one way or the other if there are going to be any race-class unlocks in Battle?
I don't think there's been anything specific but my guess is that we won't see any right away, slim possibility of some being added later on but I think the focus is on allied races for now
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  #1585  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:47 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Is there any reason to think that the return of Kul Tiras will lead to more Classes for playable Humans?

Do we even know one way or the other if there are going to be any race-class unlocks in Battle?
There's been no indication of new race/class combos. People are speculating that the new buff Kul Tirans could be a potential future allied race, or that we might need race/class combos to balance out some of the new ones being added by allied races (such as the horde getting two new druid races).
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  #1586  
Old 11-20-2017, 11:49 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I wouldn't expect any new combos with the focus being on allied races, but Legion did kind of quietly add gnome hunters. Maybe night elf paladins, what with two of the Legion paladin followers being night elves.
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  #1587  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:02 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Speaking of drust-human hybrids, you'd think that there'd be more hybrids around than merely elf-humans, orc-ogres, orc-draeneis and the unholy hybrid of all these hybrids.

Ignore the Mary Sue RPers for a second. Doesn't this strike you as odd? It's incredibly unlikely that trolls can't breed with humans or elves, so why haven't they?
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  #1588  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:20 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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You think this coat is cloth or leather?

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  #1589  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:32 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Leather.
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  #1590  
Old 11-20-2017, 12:38 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
Good to see you Marthen, I don't believe we've spoken since the Wow movie cratered. You bring up some fair points:
Hah, that was quite a blunder, but I am still happy for some little details it has given the main universe.

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
1) I will give you that I forgot about the shamanism aspect of the earlier humans/proto vrykul but i don't really buy Druidism. Even Gilnean Harvest-witches only had some elements of the craft and needed Night Elves to teach them the rest. Them having forms earlier than their Night Elf contact is really a game-before-lore thing. Growing plants is a long way from turning into animals.
Chronicle clarified (to the joy of Genesis ) that it was indeed a crude form of druidism, not just "growing plants". And it specified it was as important as elemental shamanism.

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
4) Granted but this assumes we had a decent amount of "harvest-witch" likes that traveled to found Kul'tiras to start with. I'm hypothesizing here but since I don't recall ever meeting a Vrykul Druid (This bear is supposedly theorized to be such but it could easily just be Blizzard wanting a unique bear model that fits. They went out of the way to keep him as a bear when he dies after all) and the Harvest witches were stated to be very low in number I'd guess the chance of a decent number of them being sailors that founded Kul'tiras would be very miniscule. So possible I guess but I think you're along the same population level of High Elves at that point.
The timeline is our friend here. At the time both Gilneas and Kul Tiras were settled, the faith in the Light only appeared in Lordaeron, existing as not more but a (eventually budding) sect for a long time. As such, we are not talking only about harvest witches here, but potentially all early settlers.

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
5) I can't say you're wrong but I really dislike this potential turn of events. Kul'tiras was well documented and active amongst humanity throughout much of the earlier history. It sits badly with me that the fact a good chunk of them are as Igod puts it "3 feet taller than those around them" and especially so that this apparently never came up beforehand at all. It's also never suggested that Kul'tiras was in any sense of isolation from Alliance affairs prior to the Daelin incident. Hell Jaina studied at Dalaran and Arthas and her parents conversed regarding their union quite frequently. Considering how connected they were I'd also find it odd they didn't have some version of the Light unless they actively rejected it (possible considering how useful shamanism would be to a Navy nation) but i wouldn't expect Paladins either.
Frankly, I personally do not see the issue, for several reasons;

1) Except for an extremely outdated mission in Warcraft II's expansion, we have never seen Kul Tiras directly. Only some of its soldiers and nobles.

2) The proportion. So far, it seems these strongman Tirasians (as I jokingly call them, as our strongmen are usually also some feet higher than the average and massive with a lot of belly) do form a smaller portion of the population, not the majority.

3) The timeline. If these massive chaps have been part of the Tirasian population since its foundation, they would be considered normal. And as such, there would be no reason to specifically mention them.

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Originally Posted by Sa'danak View Post
Also as a minor addendum, it seems odd that any Kul'tirans would breed with a race they exterminated and that the offspring would be allowed to remain with them in any fashion. Not impossible but it certainly raises an eyebrow. Overall, while i can't disprove you here I must reiterate I really, really don't like it and hope they keep the Druidism to the Drust.
It wouldn't be unusual going by our real world history. Conquerors often tended to kill off only the male population, taking the daughters for themselves as their prize. And since the children came from their seed, they were often (depends on the culture, of course) considered equal. I don't see it as too far-fetched.
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  #1591  
Old 11-20-2017, 01:50 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Speaking of drust-human hybrids, you'd think that there'd be more hybrids around than merely elf-humans, orc-ogres, orc-draeneis and the unholy hybrid of all these hybrids.

Ignore the Mary Sue RPers for a second. Doesn't this strike you as odd? It's incredibly unlikely that trolls can't breed with humans or elves, so why haven't they?
I've always found it rather strange that orc/troll couplings have never been a thing.

Last edited by Mungo; 11-20-2017 at 02:10 PM.. Reason: typo
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  #1592  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:17 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Speaking of drust-human hybrids, you'd think that there'd be more hybrids around than merely elf-humans, orc-ogres, orc-draeneis and the unholy hybrid of all these hybrids.

Ignore the Mary Sue RPers for a second. Doesn't this strike you as odd? It's incredibly unlikely that trolls can't breed with humans or elves, so why haven't they?
I do find that weird, yes. The absence of actual orc/human hybrids especially (Garona notwithstanding).
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  #1593  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:02 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I do find that weird, yes. The absence of actual orc/human hybrids especially (Garona notwithstanding).
Not really, go look at the map and you'll have your answers:

High Elves have lived very close to the human kingdoms, notably Lordaeron. There has been a lot of interaction and more good relations between the two races. Kael saw no issue with him trying to woo Jaina and he was next in line to rule the High Elves. So a human/elf pairing wasn't seen as taboo.

Orcs aren't located near any human settlements either minor or major. The closest would be Thereamore, but that only came into existence during the Third War. Orcs and humans have always had very bad relations to each other.

As for troll/human, the only major human settlement they are near is SW and those two have been at war with each for a long time, plus the jungle trolls are very "secretive" and thus keep interactions with non-troll races to a bare minumum.
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  #1594  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:04 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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80% of the story is told through games. Blizzard doesn’t want to invest in mixed race models. Some races have only just met a few years ago, so seeing a Pandaren-Draenei is unlikely beyond a toddler.

There’s also how these kids are made, and I don’t think Blizzard is going to explore the darker way.
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  #1595  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:32 PM
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Always wanted to see a Gnome/Dwarf hybrid.
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  #1596  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:09 PM
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Always wanted to see a Gnome/Dwarf hybrid.
Where do you think all those kobolds came from?
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  #1597  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:10 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Leather.
Yeah I'm feeling leather, though I wouldn't mind if it were cloth. Either way, one of my alts is gonna rock that, if possible.
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  #1598  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:22 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yeah I'm feeling leather, though I wouldn't mind if it were cloth. Either way, one of my alts is gonna rock that, if possible.
The fuck are you supposed to be?
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  #1599  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:25 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Old 11-20-2017, 05:59 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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The fuck are you supposed to be?
What, my avatar?

Sphinx Awlad, cosmic sphinx kitten from Fate/Grand Order. I find it cute.
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