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  #101  
Old 03-15-2016, 07:12 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Because Old Gods forbid the Night elves be given undeniable evidence of a martial advantage over greenskins. "Superior tactics and experience" are much more easily dismissed in favor of simpletons who cobble together technology generously provided by their allies.

Seriously, is there any invention produced solely from an Orcish mind?
per ToW, they're even warriors.
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  #102  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:15 PM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

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Zin-Azshari used to be named Elun'dris, "the Eye of Elune."

Suramar was the religious center.
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  #103  
Old 03-16-2016, 12:35 PM
Noitora Noitora is online now

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Zin-Azshari used to be named Elun'dris, "the Eye of Elune."

Suramar was the religious center.
Stop feeding Ruin's canon. We're going to need an Azshara novel at some point.
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  #104  
Old 03-16-2016, 01:19 PM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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Crysltalsong was called Moonsong before it became what it is now.

Also that bit about Suramar really makes me think we'll find out what Elune is in Legion. Since the temple of Elune is the tomb of sargeras now.
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  #105  
Old 03-16-2016, 02:39 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by noitora View Post
stop feeding ruin's canon. We're going to need an azshara novel at some point.
it's all fitting hahahahaha
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  #106  
Old 03-17-2016, 02:38 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Seriously, is there any invention produced solely from an Orcish mind?
They had their own forges and knew how to work metal. Blackrock Foundry existed before the formation of the Iron Horde, so at least the Blackrock Clan had knowledge of masonry and could apply that knowledge on a large scale. Even the Frostwolf Clan was capable of building small structures from stone, however.

As for inventions produced solely from Orcish minds?

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Flask_of_Blazegrease
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Wolfskin_Snowshoes
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Screaming_Bullroarer
http://wow.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Bellows
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  #107  
Old 03-17-2016, 03:03 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Apep View Post
Because Old Gods forbid the Night elves be given undeniable evidence of a martial advantage over greenskins. "Superior tactics and experience" are much more easily dismissed in favor of simpletons who cobble together technology generously provided by their allies.

Seriously, is there any invention produced solely from an Orcish mind?
Before the World of Warcraft era lore retconned it (the Tides of Darkness novel should burn), the orcs actually had been quite cunning. Their technology was crude, yet effective.

Thankfully, WoD began to "de-retcon" this development (one of its few redeeming qualities), something that the Chronicle Vol. 2 will hopefully continue in.

Just some orcish things from the Warcraft II manual.

Stronghold.

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The massive, jagged spires of the Orc Stronghold are a constant reminder to the Horde of their power and dominance. As the center of larger Orcish settlements, the Stronghold can process resources in the same fashion as a Great Hall - and the overseer can induce the production of more gold from the pitiful worms under his command. These intimidating structures of steel and stone use techniques in their construction that serve as strong barriers, greatly reducing the damage inflicted by attacking forces. Convinced of their innate superiority as warriors, Troll Berserkers and Ogres will only act under the direction of an overseer who has proven himself capable enough to establish a Stronghold. As need and resources dictate, a Stronghold can be reinforced and refitted as a Fortress.
Foundry.



Catapults, all the advanced buildings etc.
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The Orcs that live and work in the Blacksmith shops are veteran warriors themselves. Understanding the value of strong steel, they are always developing new techniques and methods to improve their weapons or upgrade the quality of their armor. The steel that they forge is essential in the manufacture of the devastating Catapult, and their skills also aid in the crafting of the strange mechanical workings that are used to improve the accuracy and strength of these great machines. Their expertise is often required for the construction of advanced structures.
And their greatest invention, Ogre Juggernaughts (although manned by Ogres, the ships were implied to be constructed by orcs.
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Known by the trio of towering smokestacks that surround this structure, the Foundry is instrumental in creating the massive armor plates and lethal cannons that are found on the greatest of the Orcs warships - the Juggernaught. Abysmally dark and sweltering with unnatural heat, Foundries are filled with an acrid layer of smoke and soot - making most Orcs feel right at home when visiting one. Heat emanates from all openings as Foundry workers pour molten slag into casts for new cannons, while pounding resounds for miles along the coast as they shape ore into new armor.
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  #108  
Old 07-10-2018, 02:14 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Night Elf Icon (War3) Some rant.

I applaud the people who work on phylogenetic trees for World of Warcraft's races for their dedication to the franchise, but there are always the same small flaws that leave me slightly disgruntled.

In all cases that I have seen, the Highborne are displayed as if they were a separate species from the rest of the Kaldorei, instead of simply being a social caste. Although they have at times lighter skin than night elf commoners, as far as we currently know, this is not the case!

Branching off from the Highborne, we then get the high elves (including void and blood elves) and the Nightborne.

This, I can understand when it comes to the high elves. Although, I would like to interject that it is very likely that the exiled Highborne took some of their most loyal servants with them, making the high elf population less homogeneous than we like to believe. Someelves had to be the ancestors of the blood elf commoners we see in Quel'thalas nowadays, after all.

It is the belief that the Nightborne are the descendants of the Highborne that I have issues with. Some of them likely were, but certainly not all of them. I doubt that they were even the majority. Suramar was not an exclusively Highborne city; it is the city Tyrande grew up in, after all. In fact, I doubt even Zin-Azshari, had an exclusively Highborne population. Azshara's handmaidens were nobles (as is the case among most royals), but it is very unlikely that all the "servants" were nobles too, if you would go as far as calling an empress's handmaidens servants.
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  #109  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:47 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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It does seem like it'd amount to an awful lot of the Highborne, which were supposed to be a pretty exclusive and limited caste. Especially when one considers the slow rate of proliferation among night elves, there being an entire city full of Highborne seems like a stretch. Plus we know Suramar was home to Tyrande, the Stormrage brothers, and the Shadowsongs, and none of them were Highborne.

I've figured since Legion that what we see now as Suramar City was maybe just the "wealthy district" where Elisande's Highborne and their families and servants lived in the Nighthold (which is itself chock full of residential buildings), while the other residents outside the Nighthold were mostly traditional kaldorei nobility in the vein of the Ravencrests and maybe a wealthy merchant class that satisfied their desires for extravagant goods and services (like the vintners.) So they would have always had noble families like Houses Lunastre, Astravar and Stellaris competing for leverage and favor with their Highborne masters - and through them, Azshara - while their household armies provided security for the city in the form of the Duskwatch.

I get the sense from their clothes and furnishings that even the "average" Nightborne - such as the laborers at the vineyard or the merchants - live pretty extravagantly. As if perhaps what was saved from the Sundering amounted to the "rich part of town" where the wealthiest and most powerful noble families lived so they could be close to and curry favor with Elisande.

It's perhaps worth noting that the entire zone is called Suramar, and it's covered in ruins. Ruins seemingly connected to each other and modern-day Suramar City by teleportation hubs (which were defunct when we first showed up in Legion.) That concentration of ruins all over it coupled with even more ruins on the Broken Isles makes me think the city was far more gigantic before the Sundering, and the bulk of it - namely urban sprawl where commoners like Tyrande would have lived - probably wasn't protected by Elisande's shield and ended up being destroyed by the Legion's soldiers and the implosion of the Well. It could then perhaps be possible that the Moon Guard Stronghold was originally within the city limits, serving as Suramar's resident garrison of military spellcasters that drew its ranks from the noble families living around the Nighthold.

Highborne were supposed to be expressly noted and "chosen" based on their proficiency with magic (or occasionally on Azshara thinking they were pretty to look at and wanting to keep them around.) Yet it seems hard to believe such a standard applies to every disposable grunt in the Duskwatch. So it seems more likely to me that only the very topmost kaldorei there were Highborne, while the rest were the historical wealthy and powerful night elf noble Houses clustering around them.

I suppose they could have indeed meant that there was literally an entire city populated almost entirely by Highborne. But honestly that just sounds silly and ridiculous. Like finding out there's an entire kingdom somewhere with a population of thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands, all of whom are kings and dukes.

Edit: Incidentally, hell of a necro there Nazja...

Last edited by ARM3481; 07-10-2018 at 08:57 PM..
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  #110  
Old 07-10-2018, 08:55 PM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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I blame the night elves for killing the high elves and stealing their stuff. Also, I'm increasingly becoming less of a fan of night elves, since history became all about them once they were written into the lore. Sargeras, the demons, the Well of Eternity, Kalimdor, the Sundering, etc.? Yeah, that all goes back to night elves. They fought the Burning Legion first and their its "traditional" enemy on Azeroth. People may bitch about night elves having their stuff stolen or the universe shrinking in a way that makes night elves seem less unique, but they should be aware that night elves were one of the earliest and major perpetrators of that trend.
I completely agree with this. I liked night elves when WC3 was first released but it slowly diminished as the lore became increasingly night elf centric.
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  #111  
Old 07-10-2018, 10:40 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Incidentally, hell of a necro there Nazja...
I figure that, if a thread claims to be THE insert-race-name thread, then it's worth necroing.

Oh, and what I forgot to mention... it is very unlikely that being turned into a satyr is a uniquely Highborne phenomenon, so let's add that one to my list of grievances too!
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  #112  
Old 07-10-2018, 11:46 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I figure that, if a thread claims to be THE insert-race-name thread, then it's worth necroing.

Oh, and what I forgot to mention... it is very unlikely that being turned into a satyr is a uniquely Highborne phenomenon, so let's add that one to my list of grievances too!
Fair enough.

I would think it's not mechanically unique to them, no. Though circumstantially a disproportionate number of the important ones are probably former Highborne. Especially given the tendency of important satyr to have "Highborne-sounding" names.

But if they still swell their ranks by forcibly corrupting night elves (can't accurately recall if that was RPG-exclusive lore or not), then the satyr of Kalimdor had to be corrupting non-Highborne between the WotA and Stormrage, since there weren't a significant number of Highborne still running around the continent during that time.
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  #113  
Old 07-11-2018, 02:34 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I don't think the whole zone of Suramar corresponded to Suramar City, but rather a sort of province. I do think, however, that the northern portions of Thal'Dranah (Tomb of Sargeras and Crescent Ruins), which I imagine are what we saw in TFT, were indeed part of the city.
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  #114  
Old 07-11-2018, 06:24 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by TerrorhoofMayo View Post
I completely agree with this. I liked night elves when WC3 was first released but it slowly diminished as the lore became increasingly night elf centric.
Maybe we should have got the REALLY feral Night Elves for the Horde:



The Blood Elves could stay Alliance I suppose.
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  #115  
Old 07-12-2018, 10:01 AM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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Maybe we should have got the REALLY feral Night Elves for the Horde:



The Blood Elves could stay Alliance I suppose.
They have never existed.

Last edited by TerrorhoofMayo; 07-12-2018 at 10:04 AM..
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  #116  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:38 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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No one said it. The point is the Night Elves we did get didn't work in the long-run from a bunch of issues (namely from being Alliance without having a niche for themselves beyond serving as discount High Elves).
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