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  #426  
Old 05-27-2015, 10:45 AM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

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Remember those confusing tweets of not-knowing-when-exactly-Stormwind-fell from Loreology and that not-blizzard-lady who helped with UVG? They said it was either in year 3 or 4.

(Varian was born 10 years before the First War)

This seems to have source here:

Wolfheart, chapter 22:
The tranquility of those days softened Varianís heart. Still the young boy, he looked up at his father.
That was when the assassin struck.
Llane fell, dead. His slayer, the female half-orc called Garona, loomed like a sinister giant over Varian, who was now suddenly some thirteen years old.
Screaming, tears pouring down his face, young Varian lunged at the killer. Events had not played out this wayóin real life, he had not entered the room until the half-orc had already murdered his fatheróbut now they mixed with Varianís turbulent emotions of that time.
But Garona disappeared. Llaneís face, contorted in death, filled Varianís thoughts. The teenage version wanted to cry out for his father, but no sound came from his straining mouth.
Then the tragic memory became mixed with others. With Llane dead, the capital was vulnerable. The orcs, who had already invaded the kingdom four years previous, now overran the great city. The capital fell as brutal axes slew hundreds.
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  #427  
Old 05-27-2015, 03:47 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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'slew hundreds'

all of my rage
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  #428  
Old 05-27-2015, 03:56 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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'slew hundreds'

all of my rage
Yeah, wasn't old Stormwind so large that if you flew high up in the sky you couldn't see the edge of the city? hundreds, sounds like a fucking town.
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  #429  
Old 05-27-2015, 04:06 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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well there was that novel which talked about "thousands of vessels coming to Lordaeron" so that would explain it.
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  #430  
Old 05-27-2015, 04:06 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Meh.
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  #431  
Old 05-27-2015, 04:13 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Don't forget, that makes the sacking of Stormwind about as costly for the alliance as the entire second war would be.

At first, nothing had seemed able to stop these grotesque invaders, but gradually what had looked to be a horrible slaughter had turned instead into an agonizing stalemate. Battles had been won by attrition. Hundreds had died on both sides, all seemingly for no good reason. For years, the Kirin Tor had foreseen no end.
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  #432  
Old 05-28-2015, 05:39 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Don't forget, that makes the sacking of Stormwind about as costly for the alliance as the entire second war would be.

At first, nothing had seemed able to stop these grotesque invaders, but gradually what had looked to be a horrible slaughter had turned instead into an agonizing stalemate. Battles had been won by attrition. Hundreds had died on both sides, all seemingly for no good reason. For years, the Kirin Tor had foreseen no end.
Day of the Dragon: Grand scale when discussing geography or periods of time; tiny scale when discussing casualty figures.
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  #433  
Old 06-22-2016, 02:06 AM
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After so many years, I have finally managed to create a coherent and sensible timeline based solely on the RTS games. Funnily enough, it works even with Warcraft III and its manual.

559
Medivh is born during fall (Warcraft I & II manuals).

564
Llane is born (Warcraft I manual).

571
Medivh falls into coma. The first rift appears, the Warlocks study it and try to control it (Warcraft I manual).

577
Medivh awakens from his coma. Llane reaches the age of ascension and is given the hourglass (Warcraft I manual). Gul'dan is contacted by Medivh (Warcraft II manual).

578
(Over thirty years before 608; BDTP manual).
(A year plus three months after the Warlocks, with the aid of Medivh, stabilize the rift (577); Warcraft I & II manuals).
The first of orcs (Bleeding Hollows) cross over to Azeroth.

583
The rift is transformed into a portal (Warcraft II manual).
The first attack against Stormwind ( Warcraft I & II manuals).

584
Llane becomes the King of Azeroth at the age of twenty (Warcraft I manual).

593
Aegwynn visits King Llane (Warcraft I & II manuals).
Gul'dan and Blackhand cross to Azeroth (Warcraft I & II manuals).
Lothar's last entry in his Chronicles (leaves for the Deadmines?; Warcraft I).

595
The First War begins (six years before the beginning of the Second War; Warcraft II & its manual).
Lothar returns from his captivity in the Deadmines to lead the forces of Azeroth in the war to come (Warcraft II manual), twenty months after his capture (Warcraft I).
Thrall is born during the later part of the year (24 years before the Third War; Warcraft III manual).
Prince Arthas is born? (24 years before the Third War; Warcraft III manual).

596
Prince Arthas is born? (24 years before the Third War; Warcraft III manual).

597
Jaina Proudmoore is born? (23 years before the Third War; Warcraft III manual).

598
Garona's final entry? (15 years after the first attack on Stormwind; Warcraft I manual).

600
The First War ends (nearly 5 years after its beginning; Warcraft II manual).

601
The Second War begins (42 winters after Aegwynn first came to Azeroth).

606
The Second War ends during the early part of the year (almost 15 years of peace before the Third War; Warcraft III manual).
The Bleeding Hollows cross over to Draenor (the Eve of Summer; BDTP manual).

608
Beyond the Dark Portal.

620
Third War.
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  #434  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:12 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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You know, one of the things I most dislike in WoW is how the expansions, spanning whole wars, last but a year.

Anyway, Marthen when do you consider the Third War begins? Hearthglen? Northrend? The Betrayal?

---------
If I were to "prolongate" the duration of things in WoW, I would first of all make Anduin Wynn born in 616, thus being 8 years old in vanilla. It would span from 624, with the arrival of the armies of Stormwind and Khaz Modan to Blackrock Mountain, to 627, with the Argent Dawn siege upon Naxxramas.

628 and early 629 would see the whole of the Burning Crusade, with the arrival of the Alliance and Horde Vanguards in Northrend in 630. The Cataclysm would hit on the early weeks of 632, and the Siege of Orgrimmar in summer 633. The Battle of the Broken Shore would occur in summer 635, with Anduin at 19 years of age.

Yes, I use Anduin's age as a reference, it makes it easier :p

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  #435  
Old 06-22-2016, 04:44 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
You know, one of the things I most dislike in WoW is how the expansions, spanning whole wars, last but a year.

Anyway, Marthen when do you consider the Third War begins? Hearthglen? Northrend? The Betrayal?
Well, Blizzard certainly has had this weird tendency to cramp everything into a single year ever since they released World of Warcraft. I mean, even that timeline I posted is no longer canon; yes, it is purely based on the RTS manuals and easily could be considered canon back then, however, it is not anymore (though, once again funnily enough, all Blizzard had to do was to place the Third War at the year 25 instead of 20 and interpret the year 0 as the beginning of the First War and there would be no need for any retcons).

Anyway, I think that emergency meeting where Medivh shows up serves really well as the principal point. The plague already rampages in the Northlands, the Horde is on the move.
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  #436  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:09 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Kind of an odd choice, I prefer Thrall's attacks on the internment camps as a starting point. For one thing, it explains the name of the third war in-universe: The third war of orcish ascension.
Would have helped avoid a lot of the confusion for the RPG writers too.

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Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
You know, one of the things I most dislike in WoW is how the expansions, spanning whole wars, last but a year.

Anyway, Marthen when do you consider the Third War begins? Hearthglen? Northrend? The Betrayal?

---------
If I were to "prolongate" the duration of things in WoW, I would first of all make Anduin Wynn born in 616, thus being 8 years old in vanilla. It would span from 624, with the arrival of the armies of Stormwind and Khaz Modan to Blackrock Mountain, to 627, with the Argent Dawn siege upon Naxxramas.

628 and early 629 would see the whole of the Burning Crusade, with the arrival of the Alliance and Horde Vanguards in Northrend in 630. The Cataclysm would hit on the early weeks of 632, and the Siege of Orgrimmar in summer 633. The Battle of the Broken Shore would occur in summer 635, with Anduin at 19 years of age.

Yes, I use Anduin's age as a reference, it makes it easier :p
If you want to drag out the events a little more, there's not much in the story that prevents the early expansions from crossing over a little. Much of TBC in particular can occur concurrently with vanilla without much contradiction. WotLK has some more limits (mostly due to Garrosh' involvement in the story), but you can still have the last few patches of TBC take place during the early stages of the war on the lich king (Actually, thinking about it, that would explain the rather meagre blood elf showing in the war with the lich king, as well as explaining why the blues targeted Dalaran and not Silvermoon (though it doesn't explain away Nazjatar))

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  #437  
Old 06-22-2016, 05:42 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Idk why y'all get triggered by yearly timelines. A lot can happen in a year. A lot happens in 24.
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  #438  
Old 06-22-2016, 06:02 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Idk why y'all get triggered by yearly timelines. A lot can happen in a year. A lot happens in 24.
Indeed. If we were to dissect the timeline it would be a riot. Every year there's a world ending threat in which every faction dispatches tens of thousands of troops, resulting in heavy casualties. The Cataclysm alone should have destroyed several nations after the huge casualties in Northrend. Durotar was struck by drought and famine, yet Garrosh still pulls countless orcs out of his ass, all with heavy equipment and a fuckton of war machines.

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  #439  
Old 06-22-2016, 11:34 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Kind of an odd choice, I prefer Thrall's attacks on the internment camps as a starting point. For one thing, it explains the name of the third war in-universe: The third war of orcish ascension.
Would have helped avoid a lot of the confusion for the RPG writers too.



If you want to drag out the events a little more, there's not much in the story that prevents the early expansions from crossing over a little. Much of TBC in particular can occur concurrently with vanilla without much contradiction. WotLK has some more limits (mostly due to Garrosh' involvement in the story), but you can still have the last few patches of TBC take place during the early stages of the war on the lich king (Actually, thinking about it, that would explain the rather meagre blood elf showing in the war with the lich king, as well as explaining why the blues targeted Dalaran and not Silvermoon (though it doesn't explain away Nazjatar))
Huh, I had actually not thought about that.

Let's see, roughly.

616 - Revolt of the builders in Stormwind and death of Tiffin; later that year birth of Anduin Wynn;

617-620 - Creation of the Defias Brotherhood;

620 - Third War;

621 - War of the Frozen Throne; Foundation of Orgrimmar;

622-623 - Varian Wynn divided shenanigans; Lady Prestor convinces Stormwind to lay siege upon Shadowforge City and destroy Ragnaros (I won't enter into much details of my ideas for the WoW times though);

624 - Varian's return and outing of Onyxia, Second Siege on Blackrock, this time on the Black Dragonflight; in the west, the Might of Kalimdor fight the War of Ahn'Qiraj;

625 - Rise of the Blood God, threatening once more the safety of Stormwind; the Blood Plague spreads through Stranglethorn, only heavy control keeps it from spreading further north; heavy Darkspear involvement in the Battle of Zul'Gurub; Kil'jaeden puts his plans in motion by sending demons commanded by Kruul, feigning to be Illidari; Naxxramas assaulted by the Argent Dawn; opening of the Dark Portal in winter;

626 - War of Outland; Taking of Hellfire Citadel at year's end; Felling of Lady Vashj;

627 - Felling of the Sun King; Siege on the Black Temple and death of Illidan; Quel'Thalas invades Zul'Aman and slay Zul'jin; With the elven forces distracted, the False Sun King steals M'uru from Silvermoon and takes Quel'Danas: summoning of demons under the banner of the Deceiver - at these events, the Lich King stirrs in Northrend;

628 - Battle of Quel'Danas, final death of Kael'thas and partial summoning of Kil'jaeden, and his defeat - No matter, his objective was achieved: the Lich King is now wary and will seek to invade everything;

At year's end necropoli attack major regions in Azeroth, and the Argent Dawn do all they can to stop the Plague; the Lich King himself comes in one of these, named Acherus, and lay waste to Tyr's Hand and the "Scarlet Enclave"; Events lead up to Malygos's awakening and the Nexus War: with Dalaran rebuilt, it prepares to teleport to Northrend;

629 - Battle of Light's Hope Chapel and freeing of the Death Knights; Mobilizing of the Alliance and Horde Vanguards; Dalaran over Crystalsong; By years end the Alliance defeats Naxxramas once again, the Horde invades Azjol-Nerub and the Argent Crusade take Gundrak;

630 - Early in this year the armies of Khaz Modan are successful in pushing back the Iron armies, opening the way into Ulduar; Champions manage to help the Keeper Thorim in his troubles, and then with his aid, destroy Loken: the Observer is called to Azeroth; Mainly Dalaran and Khaz Modan are in league with Thorim as the corrupted Keepers are freed one by one until Yogg-Saron is destroyed by their combined might; the Celestial Algalon reconsiders destroying Azeroth;

Angrathar the Wrathgate: Forsaken treachery; Alliance and Horde forces are diverted from their true purpose by Inavading the Undercity;

Meanwhile, the Nexus War comes to an end as Alexstrazsa kills her brother, Malygos; the Argent Crusade allied with the Ebon Blade take many posts in Icecrown and eventually Highlord Fordring calls for the Argent Tournament;

At year's end the Siege of Icecrown Citadel takes place and the Lich King is finally defeated;

Yogg-Saron's death gives N'zoth sufficient power (somehow?) to awaken his minions and begin the breaking of the Elemental Planes;

631 - The armies return home, but tensions between the Horde and the Alliance are increasing ever since the Battle of the Undercity; Prelude to Cataclysm novel;

The Shattering, the Great Cataclysm hits the world as the last leaves fall from Autumn's trees;

632 - By Midyear's Day, Ragnaros is pushed back from Hyjal, the Skywall has fallen, the Twilight's Hammer is pushed from Deepholm and Neptulon is taken by the naga; the Zandalari have mobilized the Amani and Gurubashi; By winter, the trolls have been defeated and Malfurion's Breach established; Indeed, sailors report of a strange landmass that has appeared in the South Seas;

633 - In the Firelands, Ragnaros is slain by Cenarius; In Northeron the Bastion of Twilight collapses; Siege of Wyrmrest and death of the Destroyer - end of the Cataclysm; During all this time the Horde and the Alliance have been at each other's throat; By Midyear, the Horde and the Alliance are fully aware that Pandaria has been discovered, and Theramore goes Kaput; The Fourth War begins;

Elite groups venture to Pandaria, and the armies have Landfall before year's end;

634 - The Pandaria Campaign reaches its climax, with the Siege of Fear and the Purge of Dalaran; At Midyear the Kirin Tor Offensive and the Sunreaver Onslaught establish bases in the Isle of Thunder; Meanwhile, the Barrens becomes a battlefield; Intricate planning and the aid of the Shado-pan allow the Mage factions to defeat Lei Shen; the Siege of Orgrimmar is won in winter, and Vol'jin becomes Warchief of the Horde;

635; Trial and escape of Garrosh; Soon to Azerothian eyes but a few years later to Hellscream himself, the Iron Horde crosses the Red Portal and take Blackrock Spire; the nations of Azeroth, wary and spent due to the recent wars decide to take a different approach: instead of spending armies, they send a few pseudo-military champions as commanders to Draenor; the whole of the Timeshift War ensues;

636 - The Tomb of Sargeras is opened; the Battle of the Broken Shore, with the notable deaths of King Varian Wynn, Warchief Vol'jin and Highlord Tirion Fordring; Anduin Wynn is crowned King of Stormwind at 19 years of age; Sylvanas Windrunner is nominated Warchief of the Horde;

22/06/2016 - Ethenil realizes he has gotten out of track and out of topic
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  #440  
Old 06-22-2016, 12:03 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Idk why y'all get triggered by yearly timelines. A lot can happen in a year. A lot happens in 24.
It's just that real wars (the grandest ones) last longer.

WWII took from1939-1945 for Germany to conquer places, stall, and get pushed back. WWI took from 1914-1918 for a lot less ground to get covered. American Civil War had 1861-1864 for a sustained invasion of the American south. When you go back in time further, you get names like "Thirty Years' War" and "Hundred Years' War".

In terms of the Second War, think of an invasion of 2-3 continents that pushed deep, got stalled, and were reversed with the attacker's starting continent being invaded. For BtDP, add another world of continents.

Compare that to, say, the Grecco-Persian Wars of 499-449 BC. That conflict didn't even have the Greeks invading Persia at the end, not unless you link it to Alexander in the 330s BC.
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  #441  
Old 06-22-2016, 12:09 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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22/06/2016 - Ethenil realizes he has gotten out of track and out of topic
Well, technically, this thread is supposed to deal with the canon timelines, both the current and the past, not with "how would one do it better", but seeing how no thread stays on topic for long in these waters, I do not think that is an issue.
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  #442  
Old 06-23-2016, 11:40 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Well, technically, this thread is supposed to deal with the canon timelines, both the current and the past, not with "how would one do it better", but seeing how no thread stays on topic for long in these waters, I do not think that is an issue.
Very well then :p

What do you think of that timeline? I realize now Varian only returned during the Burning Crusade.
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  #443  
Old 07-21-2016, 01:48 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Heyo!

Loremasters and loreapprentices of SoL, when do you suppose the Ordering of Azeroth took place? How long ago do your headcanons and theories place the fall of the Black Empire and the arrival of the Pantheon?
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Old 02-06-2017, 09:11 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So I learned something new today. Either the WCI manual changed its use of italics, or there's an inaccurate transcription floating around.

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Dang it Grackle, the final part of the human portion of the manual is clearly a different segment from the last time a year is given, as it uses a different typeface.
I looked this up to immediately prove you wrong, and I found a version you may refer to: http://www.oldgames.sk/en/game/warcr.../download/958/

Download that, and you'll find italics for Lothar's first and last paragraphs.

How intriguing! But the physical copy I own of the manual matches this version: http://docslide.us/documents/warcraf...nual-scan.html

Page 26 shows what I grew up with - a paragraph break with no change in font. Nor is there a font change in the first paragraph.

. . . . .

So. I do know the unitalisized version dates to 1996 (you can read for yourself in the scan). I bought WCI when it was a $10 clearance, in 1997.

EDIT: Ah, there it is! The italicized version is 94-95. Older.

I personally don't think it matters; mere italics won't convince me of a 5-year time skip. Yet the discrepancy is curious, non? On the wowpedia page I corrected a word or two left out. Now I should make sure I wasn't butchering the original...

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  #445  
Old 02-07-2017, 02:45 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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I still mantain the war was supposed to start in 595/596. Everything points in that direction, even if the original shenigan in the Orcs and Humans manual might have been a mistake at first.

1. The very first "new" timelines place Medivh's birth at -37. Combine that with the fall of 559, and you get the start of the war at 595/596.

2. Couple Aegwynn's fourty two winters with her coming to Azeroth during the early 559. Substract 5-6 years from that (assuming her entry is written somwhere between the First and the Second War), and you get 595/596.

3. Place the Third War at 620 and substract Thrall's 24 years, as mentioned in the Warcraft III manual, from that. You get 595/596.

4. Combine Lothar's last entry (ten years of skirmishes), and then add some twenty months of his disappearance. Now, combine that with Lothar's Warcraft II entry which clearly states he led the armies of Azeroth into war upon his return. That means the war must have begun at least twenty months after his last entry, which bringss us to 595/596.

(A side note, but it has always been my belief that Lothar was indeed considered to be the Regent character by Warcraft II, and that the entry I am speaking of simply retconned the Deadmines mission into Lothar escaping on his own right at the start of the war.)


5. Combine Garona's entry about Blackhand with Aegwynn's "Gul'dan's and Blackhand's arrival heralded a war..." and you'll get that the war couldn't have begun in 598, and that the year was more tied to Doomhammer's own rise to prominence in the already outgoing war.

How does it not fit, my friends?
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:31 AM
Roland Ironfist Roland Ironfist is offline

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Revolt of the builders in Stormwind and death of Tiffin; later that year birth of Anduin Wynn;
That should be the other way around.
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:00 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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So since that day many moons ago, I updated my timeline many times.

I use this site called Timeglider, and to better organize it I have two timelines. When I'm writing, I can have both of them together, but unfortunately the site doesn't allow me to share both at once. If anyone wants to take a look, I suggest synching both as best you can!

http://timeglider.com/t/4ca7a524ca2f...1&max_zoom=100

http://timeglider.com/t/4b93add4c123...1&max_zoom=100

It's full of headcanons of course, but the only things that actually go against established lore are the durations of events. They're stretched out. Anduin's age is marked as a reference point.

It's in pause until Chronicle 3 comes out though.
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