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Old 06-13-2017, 06:54 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Default Understanding Gender Identity

So this is my angle: most of the time, I can understand why people believe certain things because I can find an empathetic connection. I don't agree with everyone's politics, but we share the desire to create the best society possible.

I don't support homosexual relationships, but I understand the pull of attraction because I have felt attraction myself.

With gender identity, I believe I don't understand it because I have never felt any sense of internally-driven "identity" myself. I don't feel like my brain is telling me I am a man or a woman in any sense other than the way it interprets external observations (e.g. the rest of my body). It's very reactive, in that sense. Right now, I feel like a male because I observe my body as male. I feel like if I magically woke up tomorrow as physically female, but my brain were the same, I'd feel like a female (despite some initial confusion over wtf is going on - this is comic book territory, after all).

Because I cannot grasp myself internally feeling male, I cannot fathom/empathize with (for example) a woman who internally feels male, much less a man who feels female.

Are there good online writings that break down what it feels like to "feel like a man" or "feel like a woman"?

Is this one of those things where only a chunk of people feel internal identity at all, so that's why someone like me wouldn't specifically feel "like a man" despite being by all accounts a man?
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:02 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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a lot of this tends to come down to wiring.
There are differences between the male and female brain. While the degree of difference is up to debate we do know there is a difference.

Similiar differences also exist within the brain of the transgendered. As far as for the whole issue of why you or I don't feel a sense of maleness or other such things it may be because everythings wired correctly and we don't experience dysphoria.

It's like asking how come we don't experience the feelings of a schizophrenic in a sense.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:06 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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As far as for the whole issue of why you or I don't feel a sense of maleness or other such things it may be because everythings wired correctly and we don't experience dysphoria.

It's like asking how come we don't experience the feelings of a schizophrenic in a sense.
I feel like if I magically became a woman but had my same brain, I'd naturally identify as a woman because of the observed reality. I feel like my identity is... reactive instead of proactive?
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:12 AM
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:54 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Thanks, I'll check them out.
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Old 06-13-2017, 08:57 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't like how it reinforces gender stereotypes when people think in order to do something traditionally done by the opposite sex you have to identify as that.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:34 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I don't like how it reinforces gender stereotypes when people think in order to do something traditionally done by the opposite sex you have to identify as that.
We as humans extensively reinforce basic stereotypes to establish conditions.

Genders are just a scapegoat in this kind of behavior.

Because, well, show me any culture or civilization that didn't portray a forced imposition of standards.
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Old 06-13-2017, 09:51 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I blame the many languages that assign masculine and feminine "gender" to ordinary words, unrelated to sex in any form or fashion, for no discernable reason.

Yeah, I'll be a grammar nazi by saying it's ridiculous.


EDIT: Also, languages that use double negatives to make an emphatic positive. Disgraceful. Don't they understand multiplication?

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Old 06-13-2017, 10:30 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I blame the many languages that assign masculine and feminine "gender" to ordinary words, unrelated to sex in any form or fashion, for no discernable reason.

Yeah, I'll be a grammar nazi by saying it's ridiculous.


EDIT: Also, languages that use double negatives to make an emphatic positive. Disgraceful. Don't they understand multiplication?
Seems unrelated to me. We may say "a casa" or "a bola" but we don't actually think on houses and balls as being female.
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:32 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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edit: Also, languages that use double negatives to make an emphatic positive. Disgraceful. Don't they understand multiplication?
-2 × (-2) = 4
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Old 06-13-2017, 10:43 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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We as humans extensively reinforce basic stereotypes to establish conditions.

Genders are just a scapegoat in this kind of behavior.

Because, well, show me any culture or civilization that didn't portray a forced imposition of standards.
But I want to do what I want.
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:05 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Why are there sub 18 people that think like this I know one of my therapists was with some transgender kid activist

Going off what mutters posted I am confused what the terms gender queen and fluid are non binary makes no sense whatsoever some of those people just didn't seem to identify with male or female or both
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Old 06-13-2017, 11:24 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
a lot of this tends to come down to wiring.
There are differences between the male and female brain. While the degree of difference is up to debate we do know there is a difference.

Similiar differences also exist within the brain of the transgendered. As far as for the whole issue of why you or I don't feel a sense of maleness or other such things it may be because everythings wired correctly and we don't experience dysphoria.

It's like asking how come we don't experience the feelings of a schizophrenic in a sense.
But thats sex. Not gender.

Gender itself is more of a spectrum.

While this genderfluid bullshit is a crock, as are the whole more than two genders, gender itself tends to be a social construct.

Its not exactly a secret that little boys used to wear dresses, or wear pink. Male/Female stereo types are just reinforced by the social framework of genders.

This doesnt mean that men and women think/act the same. Gay guys dont automatically think they are women, gender wise.

But it does mean that social norms can hide or reinforce biological differences in ways that make it difficult to attribute to nature.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:19 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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While this genderfluid bullshit is a crock, as are the whole more than two genders, gender itself tends to be a social construct.
Well that's the rub. All social construct is a crock. Therefore, if gender is a social construct, then any idea within it (e.g. genderfluid) is no LESS a crock than any other construct.

"Sex" is an actual objective way to classify male and female. "Gender" is... see, I can't think of it as anything other than make believe.

It would be like if we had separate concepts for "Race" and "Floopdidoo", with race being a person's genetic race and floopdidoo being what the person identifies as (white, black, pacific islander, etc.) but in a way unrelated to race. It would be like if we had separate concepts for "Weight" and "Rheen", with weight being related to how heavy a person is and rheen being the size a person feels like mentally.

Again, with me it always comes back to not having a concept of being "male" other than in reaction to my sex, or not having a concept of "white" other than in reaction to my race, or not having a concept of...

...ahem, my weight is irrelevant.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:26 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
But thats sex. Not gender.

Gender itself is more of a spectrum.

While this genderfluid bullshit is a crock, as are the whole more than two genders, gender itself tends to be a social construct.

Its not exactly a secret that little boys used to wear dresses, or wear pink. Male/Female stereo types are just reinforced by the social framework of genders.

This doesnt mean that men and women think/act the same. Gay guys dont automatically think they are women, gender wise.

But it does mean that social norms can hide or reinforce biological differences in ways that make it difficult to attribute to nature.
Huh that's something I wouldn't expect, I'm more conservative than you on this issue .

You're confusing "gender" and "gender roles" I believe.
Gender/sex is immutable, determined biologically from birth. This includes those who are transgendered as well as I have mentioned their brains. All the additions of stereotypical behaviour and clothing are not gender but gender roles. One can be a feminine man and a masculine women but at the end of the day they are still a man and a women.

the transgendered have a differently developed brain which brings about the dysphoria from the mismatch.

Yea the transtrender BS is annoying as are those who treat it as a fashion style but there is no spectrum.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:38 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I don't understand why people need to be able to use the opposite sex bathroom or locker room along with competing with the opposite gender in athletics. That sort of separation seems entirely physical to me.
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Old 06-13-2017, 12:47 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Huh that's something I wouldn't expect, I'm more conservative than you on this issue .

You're confusing "gender" and "gender roles" I believe.
Gender/sex is immutable, determined biologically from birth. This includes those who are transgendered as well as I have mentioned their brains. All the additions of stereotypical behaviour and clothing are not gender but gender roles. One can be a feminine man and a masculine women but at the end of the day they are still a man and a women.

the transgendered have a differently developed brain which brings about the dysphoria from the mismatch.

Yea the transtrender BS is annoying as are those who treat it as a fashion style but there is no spectrum.
I frequently hear people say "gender" to mean your definition of "gender roles". Or at leasy, they wouldn't use "sex/gender" with an interchangeable slash.

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Old 06-13-2017, 12:49 PM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

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Seems unrelated to me. We may say "a casa" or "a bola" but we don't actually think on houses and balls as being female.
Yeah, no one cares, except the usual feminazi complaining about some male word (and not saying anything about the female words).

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
But thats sex. Not gender.

Gender itself is more of a spectrum.

While this genderfluid bullshit is a crock, as are the whole more than two genders, gender itself tends to be a social construct.

Its not exactly a secret that little boys used to wear dresses, or wear pink. Male/Female stereo types are just reinforced by the social framework of genders.

This doesnt mean that men and women think/act the same. Gay guys dont automatically think they are women, gender wise.

But it does mean that social norms can hide or reinforce biological differences in ways that make it difficult to attribute to nature.
Gender is fake bullshit, invented by some psycho kid molester.

There's only two sexes, dictated in origin by chromosomes. Even transexuals eventually fall in one of the both categories, even if they didn't start as it. Generally speaking, I don't like seeing transexuals mixed with the rest of the LGTB bag, their problem is actually real and medical.

You like people of the same sex? Ok, you're gay. That's it. There's no "I'm a different gender now, I'm distinct and special". You're not a different gender for liking football, having aracnophobia, or liking some random fetish. A preference does not an identity make, it's just a preference.

If you come at me claiming to require a special treatment "because you act in a different way", I'm gonna tell you to fuck off, I don't care if you're a religious zealot or some attention whore.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:09 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Yeah, no one cares, except the usual feminazi complaining about some male word (and not saying anything about the female words).



Gender is fake bullshit, invented by some psycho kid molester.

There's only two sexes, dictated in origin by chromosomes. Even transexuals eventually fall in one of the both categories, even if they didn't start as it. Generally speaking, I don't like seeing transexuals mixed with the rest of the LGTB bag, their problem is actually real and medical.

You like people of the same sex? Ok, you're gay. That's it. There's no "I'm a different gender now, I'm distinct and special". You're not a different gender for liking football, having aracnophobia, or liking some random fetish. A preference does not an identity make, it's just a preference.

If you come at me claiming to require a special treatment "because you act in a different way", I'm gonna tell you to fuck off, I don't care if you're a religious zealot or some attention whore.
Intersex kind of shits on that
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:25 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Intersex kind of shits on that
And what percentage of the population is intersex?
That's the thing. Yes there exists people who have two heads but that doesn't mean that suddenly humanity now has a binary of having one head or two.

Statistical anomalies will be statistical anomalies and if at most 2% of the population are hermaphrodites with the 98% being of the two sexes then the rule still applies.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:40 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Intersex kind of shits on that
Intersex I understand. Yet, "sexual identity" has nothing to do with them feeling male or female. It's about attraction.

Because "sex" means both the male-female distinction and also the act of intercourse. While "gender" has a crazy array of meanings whose only common factor is a male-female dichotomy, the most senseless examples being nouns in certain languages that are unrelated to males and females or living matter at all.

Language is stupid.
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Old 06-13-2017, 01:56 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Intersex I understand. Yet, "sexual identity" has nothing to do with them feeling male or female. It's about attraction.

Because "sex" means both the male-female distinction and also the act of intercourse. While "gender" has a crazy array of meanings whose only common factor is a male-female dichotomy, the most senseless examples being nouns in certain languages that are unrelated to males and females or living matter at all.

Language is stupid.
Its not about attraction.

And strictly speaking, overall, modern culture only has two genders .

I know Hawaiian culture has more.

Femminiello was and is classicly considered its own gender expression.
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Old 06-13-2017, 02:15 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Its not about attraction.
I had no idea before I began the post, so I google searched, and wiki told me it was about attraction.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_identity

Quote:
And strictly speaking, overall, modern culture only has two genders .

I know Hawaiian culture has more.

Femminiello was and is classicly considered its own gender expression.
You can't really pin down "modern culture". If a sizable group of people believe something, then a certain "culture" can be said to.
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:12 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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There is no such thing as "trans". You are born with either XY or XX chromosomes. There is no "gender", nor a choice of what "gender" you are. It's dogshit cooked up by a child molesting shitbag who mutilated (and molested) one of his patients.

Sure, there is "intersex", but THAT requires physical and genetic proof, scientifically verifiable mutations by having extra chromosomes, that you have both "male" and "female" genes and sometimes body parts. It is also exceedingly rare.

Also, if there are concrete differences between "male" and "female" brains, then that means that the idea of "gender" is disproven, as there is physical hardwired differences between men and women.

So, no matter which way you slice it, the "gender spectrum" "trans" crowd are fucked.
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Old 06-13-2017, 03:21 PM
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Also, if there are concrete differences between "male" and "female" brains, then that means that the idea of "gender" is disproven, as there is physical hardwired differences between men and women.
If there are concrete differences between "male" and "female" brains, and the brains of transsexuals/transgender exhibit the traits of the opposite sex (as has been claimed to often be the case), would you not say that this is proof of the existence of "trans"?

Last edited by Nazja; 06-13-2017 at 03:31 PM..
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