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  #56101  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:35 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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I defended Trump's reaction on Saturday, because at the time, it was the right one to make. Antifa is associated with violence. At the time, we didn't know if the driver was even with the alt-right.

But now that it is known, Trump's failure to call out the white supremacists is beyond contempt. Every time I have given him the benefit of the doubt, I have been disappointed. Maybe he really is as racist as people say. It would no longer surprise me at this point.

One of the most contemptible things I used to hear from the left (and it's still said) is that Islamic terrorism is caused by American actions or the Sykes-Picot Agreement. While I concede that American actions in the Middle East have not always been wise, and that the Sykes-Picot was horribly flawed, these excuses ignore the fact that people have responsibility for their choices.

If an American Muslim joins ISIS, it isn't because of Islamophobia, or racism, or alienation—it is because that particular Muslim chose to join. And there are far, far more American Muslims who rejected ISIS despite being exposed to the same pressures.

Now, I hear the exact same excuse from the right. Oh, it's not the racist's fault that they're racist—they were driven to it because they're poor. Because people look down on them. Because they don't have options.

Bullshit. There are a lot of poor white people. Most of them don't march under the swastika, because they understand decency and personal responsibility. The only thing I hate about the alt-right more than its racism is its hypocrisy.

People need to take responsibility. If something's fucked up in your life, at least concede the possibility that maybe it's because you're doing something wrong.
Exactly, actions by others explain extreme behavior on a broad scale, but they never EXCUSE terrorism or extremism.
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  #56102  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:49 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Oh I thought he did call them out.
He did on Monday, but then he doubled down on his Saturday comments during Tuesday's press conference. Trump said that he wanted to wait to get the information—which is fair. But he then went on to say that the other side was still just as bad.

He also said that Heyer's mother congratulated him, and then said (at around the 21:00 mark) that he hadn't yet reached out to the Heyer family. I'm not sure if there was some miscommunication or he was just lying again.

I don't trust Antifa. There are too many violent people in that group for me to vouch for them. However, it was a neo-Nazi who murdered Heather Heyer, and it's not appropriate for the president to equivocate after something so heinous.
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  #56103  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:51 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The fuck is this about? The DoJ wants the IP addresses of everyone who visited some protest website leading up to inauguration day, as well as all other info they submitted. Since it's a protest organization site, that means names, addresses, phone numbers, etc.
http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecur...-trump-website
Petition: http://act.demandprogress.org/sign/t...mp-protesters/
Is the apple-cheeked hate goblin trying to retaliate against "the left" for exposing neonazis who were fired or something?
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  #56104  
Old 08-16-2017, 03:56 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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He did on Monday, but then he doubled down on his Saturday comments during Tuesday's press conference. Trump said that he wanted to wait to get the information—which is fair. But he then went on to say that the other side was still just as bad.

He also said that Heyer's mother congratulated him, and then said (at around the 21:00 mark) that he hadn't yet reached out to the Heyer family. I'm not sure if there was some miscommunication or he was just lying again.

I don't trust Antifa. There are too many violent people in that group for me to vouch for them. However, it was a neo-Nazi who murdered Heather Heyer, and it's not appropriate for the president to equivocate after something so heinous.
The way I interpreted it was that he didn't want to make a comparison but I agree that is wrong. He should have just said that white supremacy and neo nazis are worse. It was more dodgy I think than saying they were the same which is still wrong.

I will have to rewatch it for the Heyer's mother comment. I remember him mentioning a statement but not whether or not they spook to each other before he said he would reach out to her.
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  #56105  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:01 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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The way I interpreted it was that he didn't want to make a comparison but I agree that is wrong. He should have just said that white supremacy and neo nazis are worse. It was more dodgy I think than saying they were the same which is still wrong.

I will have to rewatch it for the Heyer's mother comment. I remember him mentioning a statement but not whether or not they spook to each other before he said he would reach out to her.
The Heyer thing was kind of confusing. It's possible that Trump meant Heyer had made a positive comment, but that it wasn't directly toward him, so they hadn't really been in direct contact. But like I said, I'm tired of giving him the benefit of the doubt because he will just disappoint me again.
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  #56106  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:07 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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The Heyer thing was kind of confusing. It's possible that Trump meant Heyer had made a positive comment, but that it wasn't directly toward him, so they hadn't really been in direct contact. But like I said, I'm tired of giving him the benefit of the doubt because he will just disappoint me again.
I think he was talking about this.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rump-for-word/

They spoke of each other but never directly to one another.
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  #56107  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:09 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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So from what I can tell, the conservatives/anti-pc posters are defending Trump, downplaying the KKK/Nazis/alt-right, and hyping the left as being equally bad; while the liberals/sjw posters are criticizing Trump, are more upset at these people than half the shit blacks have said are racist, and downplaying liberal vandalism?

So same as usual?
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  #56108  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:22 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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Originally Posted by PajamaSalad View Post
I think he was talking about this.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...rump-for-word/

They spoke of each other but never directly to one another.
Ah, okay. So I guess he was telling the truth that time.

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So from what I can tell, the conservatives/anti-pc posters are defending Trump, downplaying the KKK/Nazis/alt-right, and hyping the left as being equally bad; while the liberals/sjw posters are criticizing Trump, are more upset at these people than half the shit blacks have said are racist, and downplaying liberal vandalism?

So same as usual?
Like war, SoL never changes. And welcome back.
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  #56109  
Old 08-16-2017, 04:58 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
So from what I can tell, the conservatives/anti-pc posters are defending Trump, downplaying the KKK/Nazis/alt-right, and hyping the left as being equally bad; while the liberals/sjw posters are criticizing Trump, are more upset at these people than half the shit blacks have said are racist, and downplaying liberal vandalism?

So same as usual?
I mean...

The left is as bad. Not as bad as actual nazis, but these people arent.

And while THIS rally caused deaths, As lve said, the lefts been attempting to kill people for months.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers the chemicle bomb attack that was stopped during Trumps innaguration?

And then the media cover, calling butyric acid "stink bombs"?

Im tired of thatshit getting ignored
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  #56110  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:01 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I mean...

The left is as bad. Not as bad as actual nazis, but these people arent.

And while THIS rally caused deaths, As lve said, the lefts been attempting to kill people for months.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers the chemicle bomb attack that was stopped during Trumps innaguration?

And then the media cover, calling butyric acid "stink bombs"?

Im tired of thatshit getting ignored
So, you're confirming what I already said? You're not adding anything new to it.
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  #56111  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:05 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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So, you're confirming what I already said? You're not adding anything new to it.
No
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:10 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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No
Yes
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  #56113  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:14 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
I mean...

The left is as bad. Not as bad as actual nazis, but these people arent.

And while THIS rally caused deaths, As lve said, the lefts been attempting to kill people for months.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers the chemicle bomb attack that was stopped during Trumps innaguration?

And then the media cover, calling butyric acid "stink bombs"?

Im tired of thatshit getting ignored

And here are evil leftists in Canada assaulting police with dangerous hydroxic acid dispersal units.
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  #56114  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:22 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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As lve said, the lefts been attempting to kill people for months.

FFS, am I the only one who remembers the chemicle bomb attack that was stopped during Trumps innaguration?

And then the media cover, calling butyric acid "stink bombs"?

Im tired of thatshit getting ignored
1. And Trump supporters that murder or attack people get brushed off as lone wolfs.

2. Because it failed, hell a guy tried to shoot him and failed and it wasn't treated like a big deal.

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Other assassination attempts that failed by a long shot have received scant coverage, too. A previous, would-be Obama assassin, James McVay, also hatched a plot that involved swiping a police officer's gun. After stabbing a 75-year-old-woman to death in South Dakota and stealing her car, McVay drove to Wisconsin, where he planned to ambush a cop and take his firearm, according to statements he made to police after his arrest in July 2011. McVay said he planned to continue on through Chicago and Indianapolis and eventually kill the president on a golf range in Washington. But he was apprehended near Madison, Wis. CNN covered McVay's arrest and scheme, but some other national news outlets, including The Washington Post and New York Times, appear to have skipped the story altogether.

McVay was sentenced to death in 2014 for killing the South Dakota woman and hanged himself in his prison cell five months later.

From Trump's perspective, Sandford doesn't fit neatly into his campaign narrative. The billionaire has positioned himself as a staunch defender of the Second Amendment, so he certainly won't use the failed assassination attempt to push for gun control. Sandford is an illegal immigrant — and Trump is all about deporting illegal aliens — but the candidate's focus is on building a wall to keep out Mexicans and barring foreign Muslims from entering the United States. A Briton who overstayed his visa isn't a very good poster boy for the cause.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ee57c6e3ebd1
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  #56115  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:23 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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And here are evil leftists in Canada assaulting police with dangerous hydroxic acid dispersal units.
Its funny, because comparing butyric acid to a stink bomb is about as accurate as comparing waterboarding to a glass of water.
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  #56116  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:29 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Its funny, because comparing butyric acid to a stink bomb is about as accurate as comparing waterboarding to a glass of water.
Yes, it's so dangerous that it's used in things like Hershey's chocolate, fish bait, perfumes, and is found in things like milk, kombucha tea, skin flora, sweat, etc.
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Old 08-16-2017, 05:32 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Yes, it's so dangerous that it's used in things like Hershey's chocolate, fish bait, perfumes, and is found in things like milk, kombucha tea, skin flora, sweat, etc.
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ipcsneng/neng1334.html
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:12 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Regardless of whether the level of acid in the bomb was dangerous, not even Trump's team has made a big deal out of it, which is telling.


Speaking of toxicity though! A reminder that Flint isn't the Only US city (By far) with toxic water!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ater/94071732/

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Millions of Americans face similar risks because the nation’s drinking-water enforcement system doesn’t make small utilities play by the same safety rules as everyone else, a USA TODAY Network investigation has found.

Tiny utilities - those serving only a few thousand people or less - don’t have to treat water to prevent lead contamination until after lead is found. Even when they skip safety tests or fail to treat water after they find lead, federal and state regulators often do not force them to comply with the law.

USA TODAY Network journalists spent 2016 reviewing millions of records from the Environmental Protection Agency and all 50 states, visiting small communities across the country and interviewing more than 120 people stuck using untested or lead-tainted tap water.

The investigation found:

Quote:
About 100,000 people get their drinking water from utilities that discovered high lead but failed to treat the water to remove it. Dozens of utilities took more than a year to formulate a treatment plan and even longer to begin treatment.

Some 4 million Americans get water from small operators who skipped required tests or did not conduct the tests properly, violating a cornerstone of federal safe drinking water laws. The testing is required because, without it, utilities, regulators and people drinking the water can't know if it's safe. In more than 2,000 communities, lead tests were skipped more than once. Hundreds repeatedly failed to properly test for five or more years.
About 850 small water utilities with a documented history of lead contamination — places where state and federal regulators are supposed to pay extra attention — have failed to properly test for lead at least once since 2010.
This two-tiered system exists in both law and practice. State and federal water-safety officials told USA TODAY Network reporters that regulators are more lenient with small water systems because they lack resources, deeming some lost causes when they don’t have the money, expertise or motivation to fix problems. The nation’s Safe Drinking Water Act allows less-trained, often amateur, people to operate tiny water systems even though the risks for people drinking the water are the same.
How the hell is this acceptable?


https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...beyond-flints/

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For some locals, poisoning is a cost of living in this mining town. They use a colloquial term for the syndrome - getting leaded. "You can get very leaded," said Antonin Bohac, a mechanic at the nearby Brushy Creek Mine. "But I make good money."
Bohac said he was nearly taken off the job a few years ago after he was poisoned himself, with a lead level four times higher than what federal officials consider healthy for adults.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:30 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Regardless of whether the level of acid in the bomb was dangerous, not even Trump's team has made a big deal out of it, which is telling.
It was, as per the video that caught the plan, enough to clear a building.

And it is telling that nobody is treating this shit like a big deal.

Even this forum brushes off people being beaten in the head with a metal bike lock as just "property damage" and "burning trash cans" when people call out the violence at these rallies.

So yes. The fuck up piece of shit who ran over people should rot in prison. So the fuck should the animal bastards who hit people with bags of rocks, throw glass filled explosives, fill soda cans with cement to throw them, etc.

And that shit doesnt get called out.
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How the hell is this acceptable?
Its not. hence why infrastructure is so important
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  #56120  
Old 08-16-2017, 07:43 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The regular "rotten egg" stinkbombs you can get at any dumb gag store are made with ammonium sulfide. When broken open, the liquid in the little ampoules break down into hydrogen sulfide and ammonia. Super dangerous, right?! I get the feeling you've never read an (M)SDS before.
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  #56121  
Old 08-16-2017, 07:46 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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The regular "rotten egg" stinkbombs you can get at any dumb gag store are made with ammonium sulfide. When broken open, the liquid in the little ampoules break down into hydrogen sulfide and ammonia. Super dangerous, right?! I get the feeling you've never read an (M)SDS before.
You realize they were talking about a pint of the acid, right?
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  #56122  
Old 08-16-2017, 07:48 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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You realize they were talking about a pint of the acid, right?
I'm sure it would have been very stinky.
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Old 08-16-2017, 07:54 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I'm sure it would have been very stinky.
Like I said, planned chem attacks get brushed off when the left does it.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:22 PM
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Looking at what Butyric Acid can do...that's not a Chemical Warfare attack. It's an attack with a chemical irritant, but what you're talking about is out of scope with reality. Not defending the idea of using it (regardless of who the target is), but don't make more out of the story than it is.

And speaking of the story in question...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7cf_story.html

Yeah, a James O'Keefe video is not something you should be using as significant proof of evil liberals. I can believe the protestors' argument that no actual attack was planned, because O'Keefe is notorious in the Liberal community for his shenanigans and no BTA was found in his or his group's possession. That doesn't mean he wasn't planning something else or didn't have connections to groups that were, just that O'Keefe is the very definition of an agitator and propagandist.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:40 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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More details are coming out about Charlottesville. It's looking more and more like the rumors of "both sides" being bad is bullshit. The fascists showed up wanting to fight from the start.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ght-left-trump
On Friday night, hundreds of white supremacists and neo-fascists had a torchlight march across the University of Virginia’s campus, a place to which they had not been invited. They openly chanted fascist slogans like “blood and soil” and “Jews will not replace us”.
When they reached a much smaller group of counter-protesters gathered around a statue of Thomas Jefferson, they surrounded them, hurled verbal abuse and then commenced beating them with lit torches and fists, and using pepper spray on them. Some protesters told me they had been sprayed with lighter fluid while naked flames burned all around them.
Some of the people trapped around the statue responded with fists and pepper spray, but their actions, and their posture, was entirely defensive from the start.


Many wore helmets and carried shields. Many carried clubs and chemical sprays. All of these were used on counter-protesters. And initially, the counter-protesters I saw from my perch at the south-east corner of the park used entirely passive methods to try to block the passage of the far-right groups.
As one of the far right’s formations approached Emancipation Park, I witnessed one of their number spray mace into the face of a young, female counter-protester who had done no more than talk to them.
I saw a large man, around 6ft 3in, dressed in full riot gear, swinging a club at any counter-protester he could find.
I saw a group of 250 or more white-shirted young men shove aside and threaten 20 members of the clergy who had linked arms at the top of a set of stairs, and hurl racial epithets at Cornel West.
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