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Old 01-23-2018, 12:57 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Do you even know what you're talking about? Please explain how voter ID would prevent gerrymandering.
Well, first off you need to understand the difference between Republican and Democratic strategies and goals when attempting to Gerrymander.

Which, uniquely enough, answers that question.
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Old 01-23-2018, 01:17 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Well, first off you need to understand the difference between Republican and Democratic strategies and goals when attempting to Gerrymander.

Which, uniquely enough, answers that question.
I feel like you're confusing gerrymandering with a completely different concept somehow.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:10 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I feel like you're confusing gerrymandering with a completely different concept somehow.
For someone who complains about gerrymandering, one would think you would know the differences between the two parties when they do it.

But, of course, you don't hate gerrymandering. You hate republicans and the way they do it (which, to be fair, was pretty extreme this last go round)
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:36 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
For someone who complains about gerrymandering, one would think you would know the differences between the two parties when they do it.

But, of course, you don't hate gerrymandering. You hate republicans and the way they do it (which, to be fair, was pretty extreme this last go round)
Thanks for accusing me of things. Are you going to explain how voter ID would prevent gerrymandering now?
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:15 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Thanks for accusing me of things. Are you going to explain how voter ID would prevent gerrymandering now?
People vote illegally. Voter ID fixes this. (as a theory)

The majority of unauthorized immigrants are spread out across 20 or so metro areas (over half, like 6 in 10, I think was the last number I saw). Democrats gerrymander differently than Republicans. While Republicans are more likely to draw lines between political subsets (And race does play into it because of the way races tend to vote. The "Black Vote" being the perfect example) and hard line outcomes, Democrats weaken those lines by making sure to loop in enough people that tend to vote Democrat to make it nearly impossible for Republican candidates to win.

Whereas Republicans will draw up a map that goes out of it's way to exclude areas that would otherwise be part of the district, Democrats go out of their way to add areas that would not otherwise be part of the district.

The argument, if one is to believe it, is that since the unauthorized immigrants are largely focused in urban areas, and that since they vote illegally, their votes weaken the conservative voices in city areas and thus incentivize Democrats to further consolidate the districts in such a way as to both keep minorities and illegal aliens grouped together in order to weaken GOP candidates and voters, but also to then be able to focus on target areas to keep on the Government Teat, as it were.

Voter ID would disable those illegals being able to vote, reducing support for democrats, which gives the Democrats less incentive to combine areas into a district if it doesn't get the same bang for their buck.

Of course, that assumes Illegal aliens vote, that other urban areas carry enough of a conservative slant to tip the balance, and a few other things.

While it's a valid point (if you are serious about tackling Gerrymandering), Voter ID is something I'd rather live without. Let states decide.

Of course, since the controlling party tends to set the districts, whenever there is a strong party by an overwhelming factor, the lines get out of sync pretty quickly. The sweep of Conservative seats in the last decade made it unlikely for Democrats to gain any real ground for a good long while though. Quite literally, it could be a generation barring a massive turnout for Democrats.

And that should be fixed.
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Old 01-23-2018, 03:58 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
People vote illegally. Voter ID fixes this. (as a theory)

The majority of unauthorized immigrants are spread out across 20 or so metro areas (over half, like 6 in 10, I think was the last number I saw). Democrats gerrymander differently than Republicans. While Republicans are more likely to draw lines between political subsets (And race does play into it because of the way races tend to vote. The "Black Vote" being the perfect example) and hard line outcomes, Democrats weaken those lines by making sure to loop in enough people that tend to vote Democrat to make it nearly impossible for Republican candidates to win.

Whereas Republicans will draw up a map that goes out of it's way to exclude areas that would otherwise be part of the district, Democrats go out of their way to add areas that would not otherwise be part of the district.

The argument, if one is to believe it, is that since the unauthorized immigrants are largely focused in urban areas, and that since they vote illegally, their votes weaken the conservative voices in city areas and thus incentivize Democrats to further consolidate the districts in such a way as to both keep minorities and illegal aliens grouped together in order to weaken GOP candidates and voters, but also to then be able to focus on target areas to keep on the Government Teat, as it were.

Voter ID would disable those illegals being able to vote, reducing support for democrats, which gives the Democrats less incentive to combine areas into a district if it doesn't get the same bang for their buck.

Of course, that assumes Illegal aliens vote, that other urban areas carry enough of a conservative slant to tip the balance, and a few other things.

While it's a valid point (if you are serious about tackling Gerrymandering), Voter ID is something I'd rather live without. Let states decide.

Of course, since the controlling party tends to set the districts, whenever there is a strong party by an overwhelming factor, the lines get out of sync pretty quickly. The sweep of Conservative seats in the last decade made it unlikely for Democrats to gain any real ground for a good long while though. Quite literally, it could be a generation barring a massive turnout for Democrats.

And that should be fixed.
Seems like that's based on a faulty premise. Even the president's voter fraud investigative team was disbanded because they couldn't find anything (except for those Republican voters that got arrested in 2016, of course).

Hopefully, state and federal courts will continue to give Republicans bloody noses over their blatant gerrymandering to help fix this problem, though. And Alabama electing a Democratic Senator for the first time in decades gives hope that D's may be able to get into power and break it up as well. IIRC, there are still worries about the next census fucking things up, though.
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  #57332  
Old 01-23-2018, 04:15 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Hopefully, state and federal courts will continue to give Republicans bloody noses over their blatant gerrymandering to help fix this problem, though. And Alabama electing a Democratic Senator for the first time in decades gives hope that D's may be able to get into power and break it up as well. IIRC, there are still worries about the next census fucking things up, though.
Sure. It needs to be fixed.

But, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, hurting Gerrymandering (in all its forms) isn't going to fix the problem. At best, it will be short term solutions.

The last few years especially (few being, you know, relative) has seen a MASSIVE increase in existing trends of democrats moving to big cities and urban areas.

I'd have to find the article again, but even as bad as current Repub Gerrymandering is, I think the numbers were best case scenario only a few (admittedly precious) seats.

Democrats "really" need to spread out more into the rural areas, because as it stands rural districts are more red now than they've been in a long time, and those rural seats are still seats.
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:56 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Democrats "really" need to spread out more into the rural areas, because as it stands rural districts are more red now than they've been in a long time, and those rural seats are still seats.
Relying on people moving strategically in order to maintain a properly functioning democracy seems like a bit of a flaw in the system, doesn't it?
That's kind of happening, though, but at a very slow rate. A couple decades ago, liberals from all across the country flooded into California and accelerated its liberalization significantly. This same movement has since started spreading a bit to Oregon, Washington, and Colorado. It seems that there is a slow wave of a sort of liberal gentrification sweeping through.
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Old 01-23-2018, 07:57 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Relying on people moving strategically in order to maintain a properly functioning democracy seems like a bit of a flaw in the system, doesn't it?
That's kind of happening, though, but at a very slow rate. A couple decades ago, liberals from all across the country flooded into California and accelerated its liberalization significantly. This same movement has since started spreading a bit to Oregon, Washington, and Colorado. It seems that there is a slow wave of a sort of liberal gentrification sweeping through.
Again, not really a democracy....

But, even beyond that.. that's actually a pretty big problem that I know the DNC is talking about.

The problem is true democracy is understandably evil. Mob rule is not anywhere we want to go. And you can't ignore the rural population to cater to the urban ones, which is what will happen if you go with popular vote.

Our system isn't perfect, but it's by far the best out there at the moment, even with it's flaws.

We need to be able to represent both the interests of urban and rural voters, and obviously those two groups live in vastly different worlds, even if they might not admit it.

The biggest way to fix that is to just flat out encourage voter turnout. Using Hawaii as an example, there are quite a few conservatives living there, despite the entire shithole of a government being ran by dems (And, to be clear, it's not a shithole because it's Democrat, it's a shithole because its a corrupt mess of nepotism, bigotry and entitlement with little to no oversight.), but nobody who is Republican really goes out to vote because the belief is their vote won't matter.

It's bad enough, actually, that a few years back they had to get special disposition because they couldn't get enough republicans in the government that the law demanded

California is the same way. There are a hell of a lot of conservatives in southern California, and there are states where the reverse is true. They tend to lean right, but have a strong Dem base.

Voting matters. Hell, look at Alabama with their insane voter turnout with the moore dude.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:44 AM
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Sure is weird how that keeps happening, you know?
Ruinshin, you've gone batshit insane over the past years. Like off-the-walls loony. A true conservative nutter. I hope you can get help because you are letting the internet and your social isolation/detachment destroy yourself and your grasp of reality. It's not pretty, especially since you were sane once before on this forum, and now you've become just another typical sad internet guy.
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:58 AM
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Do you even know what you're talking about? Please explain how voter ID would prevent gerrymandering.
Well, between other things:

* You can't vote using a false/stolen identity, since the ID won't match.
* You can't vote twice with the same identity, since it's registered properly.
* You can't vote outside your designated area, so no voting in places you don't belong to.

Welcome to the civilized world.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:09 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Ruinshin, you've gone batshit insane over the past years. Like off-the-walls loony. A true conservative nutter. I hope you can get help because you are letting the internet and your social isolation/detachment destroy yourself and your grasp of reality. It's not pretty, especially since you were sane once before on this forum, and now you've become just another typical sad internet guy.
I had something else typed, but it was less than polite.

So all I'll say is...

Thank you for your concern, I respectfully disagree, I quite often and have been vocal about shitposting because frankly getting an unbiased and serious political conversation is beyond this place.

That includes you.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:19 AM
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Thank you for your concern, I respectfully disagree, I quite often and have been vocal about shitposting because frankly getting an unbiased and serious political conversation is beyond this place.

That includes you.
Yet you presume that you are up to the task?
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:39 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Yet you presume that you are up to the task?
Here?

No.

In general?

Yes.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:51 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
Well, between other things:

* You can't vote using a false/stolen identity, since the ID won't match.
* You can't vote twice with the same identity, since it's registered properly.
* You can't vote outside your designated area, so no voting in places you don't belong to.

Welcome to the civilized world.
What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? At least Ruinshin tried to connect some dots.
Also, I don't think you're qualified to welcome me to he civilized world. The civilized world doesn't send in federal police to assault people for trying to vote.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:58 AM
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In general?

Yes.
Hypocritically laughable.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:13 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Hypocritically laughable.
You are, yes.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:11 AM
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You are, yes.
Brilliant. Your political ken and maturity are truly beyond this board.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:16 AM
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Hypocritically laughable.

Quote:
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Brilliant. Your political ken and maturity are truly beyond this board.
Pot and Kettle, you're not exactly a picture of balanced humility yourself Geni.
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:08 AM
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Pot and Kettle, you're not exactly a picture of balanced humility yourself Geni.
Go fucking pot and kettle yourself, Mutters, and stop trying to play morality police. I'm not making the claim that my political maturity is beyond this board with a shitposter persona.
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:33 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Go fucking pot and kettle yourself, Mutters, and stop trying to play morality police. I'm not making the claim that my political maturity is beyond this board with a shitposter persona.
We're a bunch of 25-30ish greasy nerds on a World of Warcraft discussion forum. Any form of maturity is beyond this board.
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Old 01-25-2018, 07:26 AM
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Please try to remain civil.
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Old 01-25-2018, 08:17 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Please try to remain civil.
Or what?
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Old 01-25-2018, 10:27 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Go fucking pot and kettle yourself, Mutters, and stop trying to play morality police. I'm not making the claim that my political maturity is beyond this board with a shitposter persona.
I'm not playing morality police, I'm not saying 'be nicer or else you get a paddling', I'm saying if you're going to criticize him for being a shitposter it's probably going to help not to be rude while you're doing it.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:43 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Hrm. It would see the official WH position on Russia Lago has gone from "it didn't happen" to "it happened but the president was totally not involved."
(Check timestamp or skip to 15:10)

That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault. <= WE ARE HERE
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... you deserved it.

Status of other presidential scandals:

OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... you deserved it. <== WE ARE HERE

MONEY LAUNDERING/FINANCIAL CRIMES
That didn't happen. <== WE ARE HERE
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... you deserved it.

EMOLUMENTS/CONFLICT OF INTEREST
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did... you deserved it.
Fuck the constitution <== WE ARE HERE

[edit]

Early estimates of republicare are in. Looks like you're looking at a 30% increase in your insurance bill.
http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...019-story.html
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