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  #1  
Old 01-01-2010, 08:02 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Default Azotha = Vrykul?

It just confuses me a bit. WotLK lore seems to establish that the humans of today are the Vrykul children born to the curse of flesh and hidden away by parents who did not want them dead.

Does this mean the Vrykul parents themselves deserted and fled with their children?

Does this mean that the Vrykul parents left the children in the wilderness to fend for themselves?

Does this mean that they kept their children hidden in their homes?

I'm curious as to how the Azotha tied into this... Human females (or some of them, atleast) still retain the ability to turn their skin into stone into modern daysm so clearly there are ties between humans and Vrykul aswell.

The Azotha seem to be Aztec inspired, warring with trolls for dominance over Stranglethorn Vale, and seem to have used gold as a rather large part of their culture...

So how did it go?

Vrykul + Curse of Flesh = Azotha + The Sundering = Vrykul and Earthen went into hibernation, whilst the Azotha, unable to function as constructs which turn themselves on/off could not go into hibernation, but had to flee as the world broke and eventually settled in what would later be STV?

Then again, isn't Strom and Arathi the first human civilazation?...
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:15 AM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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I dont think the "Iron ladies" thing from the RPG is 100% canon...

However, the way I see it is that the Azotha are like the cavemen of Azeroth. So the "deformed" children of the Vrykul were Azotha who later evolved into the humans "today".
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Old 01-01-2010, 10:52 AM
Stormcrusher Stormcrusher is offline

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Its been said in more credible lore sources that humans are from Strom/Arathi Highland area.

Everything we have seen in game an written lore points to that and refers to it, except the 3rd party RPG book Lands of Conflict, which has already seen countless retcons.

I wouldn't trust it for now, and just go with what everything else says about the Azotha settling in Arathi. Although we don't know much about human culture before the Troll Wars really. The artifacts found in STV could be from an ancient war, or even old Azotha explorers.
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Old 01-01-2010, 12:37 PM
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I am not sure which to believe. It is more likely that the first humans were near where Stromgarde is now, if only for continuity reasons.

However, this can be creatively reconciled because we have so little information.

Perhaps the first humans were in Stranglethorn Vale, but the first human civilization was in the Arathi Highlands.

Or perhaps the humans from Stranglethorn Vale and the Arathi Highlands have different origins, but became the same species (for fantasy reasons, though in this sort of fantasy everything can breed anyway). One from the vrykul, one not. What revelations could there be about the second origin?

Well, they all hate trolls.
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Old 01-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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The first generations of humans (cursed Vyrkul) would have been the Azotha. Their Vyrkul parents, if they traveled with them, would really be a non-issue because they’d have died off naturally and only have been able to produce Azotha/Human children. Although the Azotha ruins supposedly revealed some Titan connection, which would be from their Vykrul heritage.

As far as where they settled, they were described as being “scattered and nomadic” which means they probably were spread out liberally. We know little about the specifics of Azotha settlement, except we know that they were from all over what would become Lordearon and I wouldn’t discredit the fact that there were probably some Azotha as far south as in STV.

What we know about the Arathi area is that’s where the most powerful tribe of early humans existed, the Arathi, which eventually conquered all the other human tribes and consolidated the power of humanity to form the first great human nation Arathor, with it’s capital being Strom. Then huge numbers of humans migrated there for protection.
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Old 01-01-2010, 01:33 PM
RobLore RobLore is offline

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In Kalimdor pre-sundering, Lordaeron was probably pretty close to southeastern "Northrend" so it would be logical to asume the first "azotha" settled around the region that is now the continent of Lordaeron and then, since they were nomadic, they were scattered across the entire world from Stranglethorn to what would be become several islands isolated in the Great Sea.

Perhaps even the wastewander bandits in Tanaris have always been there since pre-sundering (or from some island created by the sundering).
(The wastewankers are also nomads so that would explain why they dont really have any large settlements if they have been there forever)
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Old 01-01-2010, 02:12 PM
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Azotha weren't a species as much as a culture. The various human tribes, Arathi or otherwise, were probably similar to a degree, having descended from the same source. As such, they could probably be grouped under the "Azotha culture" despite being from different tribes, kind of like how various Amerindian tribes are grouped under, say, "plains indians".
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Old 01-01-2010, 04:27 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Originally Posted by RobLore View Post
I dont think the "Iron ladies" thing from the RPG is 100% canon...
Don't see why it wouldn't be. Now that we know that humans are titanic creations like Dwarves, it makes way MORE sense than it did before. Previously I was kinda "what the fuck?" about it.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:03 PM
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I think that Azotha being the original name for the humans i.e. what the Vrykul called them would make sense. Azotha could mean "weak" or "runts" or something like that in the Vrykul language.

And I always thought the Iron Vrykul/Dwarves/Giants/etc. were recent thing made by Loken and that the Stone ones were the ones left by the Titans.
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Old 01-01-2010, 06:12 PM
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I think that Azotha being the original name for the humans i.e. what the Vrykul called them would make sense. Azotha could mean "weak" or "runts" or something like that in the Vrykul language.

And I always thought the Iron Vrykul/Dwarves/Giants/etc. were recent thing made by Loken and that the Stone ones were the ones left by the Titans.
The question is, though, then, where are all the stone vrykul? It is implied that the curse of flesh is what caused the vrykul to start giving birth to humans, but not outright stated. If that's the case, well... Vrykul were already fleshy from the beginning, then!
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:16 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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What stopped humans to continue to be born from vrykul by the way? Just them going into hibernation?
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:24 PM
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What stopped humans to continue to be born from vrykul by the way? Just them going into hibernation?
Yup. You can't have sex while hibernating.
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:37 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Yup. You can't have sex while hibernating.
But they are awake now...
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:04 PM
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But they are awake now...
They're a bit too busy to schtupp eachother. Plus, supposedly, they had human kids because their "gods abandoned them". They have a new god now.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:09 PM
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They're a bit too busy to schtupp eachother. Plus, supposedly, they had human kids because their "gods abandoned them". They have a new god now.
A god who grants them immortality through undeath, so children are no longer an issue.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:20 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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They're a bit too busy to schtupp eachother. Plus, supposedly, they had human kids because their "gods abandoned them". They have a new god now.
That is the reason they thought of why it was happening. I don't think there is anything that says the real reason was because the titans cursed them and left but then they went back to "normal" because they have a new "god".

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A god who grants them immortality through undeath, so children are no longer an issue.
Not all vrykul are undead...
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:25 PM
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That is the reason they thought of why it was happening. I don't think there is anything that says the real reason was because the titans cursed them and left but then they went back to "normal" because they have a new "god".
The held the Titans in very high regard, as actual gods, so they felt that the only thing that could curse them was the Titans. I assume they knew about the Old Gods, as most Titan constructs have something to do with them, and the vrykul are theorized to be planetary antibodies/soldiers.

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Not all vrykul are undead...
Most, if not all, of the ones under Ymiron want to be undead.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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The held the Titans in very high regard, as actual gods, so they felt that the only thing that could curse them was the Titans. I assume they knew about the Old Gods, as most Titan constructs have something to do with them, and the vrykul are theorized to be planetary antibodies/soldiers.

Most, if not all, of the ones under Ymiron want to be undead.
None of this points to a reason why the vrykul stopped having human children.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:31 PM
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None of this points to a reason why the vrykul stopped having human children.
Who said they stopped?

Edit: They stopped while they were asleep, but what says they continue to not?
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:32 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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Who said they stopped?
So you think they have not stopped?
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:33 PM
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So you think they have not stopped?
I do. I feel that is one of the reasons the Lich King is so attractive to them.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:34 PM
Rolandius Rolandius is offline

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I do. I feel that is one of the reasons the Lich King is so attractive to them.
Back to my statement for the second time then, none of this points to a reason why the vrykul stopped having human children.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:42 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Back to my statement for the second time then, none of this points to a reason why the vrykul stopped having human children.
Well, is there evidence that they even started having children again after they woke up? And I don't think all the children being born were humans, just some.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:43 PM
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They've been awake for a few months, tops. Even if every male vrykul had sex with every female vrykul, they wouldn't be producing kids quite yet.
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Old 01-01-2010, 09:43 PM
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Back to my statement for the second time then, none of this points to a reason why the vrykul stopped having human children.
Then the answer to you original question may be "nothing".
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

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