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Old 08-17-2015, 07:45 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Night Elf Icon (War3) The Illidari

Not quite an Illidan thread, or a demon hunter thread.

The second hero class in WoW. A big theme with dks was about being the fallen hero, forced to integrate with the factions. While the PC didn't always stand out, the class did throughout Northrend. Darion played a behind the scenes role.

So the demon hunter is a part of the Illidari. More demonic than others, they're going into a demon jail world, before ultimately being captured and imprisoned for about 10 years. How will they interact with the factions, if at all due to class halls?

Illidan. He was the crazed leader of Outland before his death. Now he's freed by Gul'Dan for something. Illidan isn't known for staying as someone's pawn though, so what role will he play in Legion? Will he be in our face, or behind the scenes? How close is he to the other demon hunters?

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Last edited by Noitora; 11-09-2015 at 03:01 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2015, 07:57 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Illidan. He was the crazed leader of Outland before his death. Now he's freed by Gul'Dan for something. Illidan isn't known for staying as someone's pawn though, so what role will he play in Legion? Will he be in our face, or behind the scenes? How close is he to the other demon hunters?
Well...based on precedent, while he indeed doesn't stick with one paymaster for long, it's mainly because someone else comes along and offers him a better deal to be their pawn instead.

Or he tries to take the initiative himself, blissfully unaware that he's still the unwitting pawn of the very people he thinks he's successfully defying, because his actions end up predictably playing right into their hands.

Remember, both times that Illidan significantly struck out on his own - the middle of TFT and the events of TBC - it turned out that he was probably doing exactly what Kil'jaeden wanted him to do, all in the belief that he was being extremely clever and playing the Legion for fools.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:07 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I'd be interested to see who's the "Thassarian" and the "Koltira" of the Illidari. Obviously their races have been determined, but their character and how we interact with them has potential.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:10 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Well...based on precedent, while he indeed doesn't stick with one paymaster for long, it's mainly because someone else comes along and offers him a better deal to be their pawn instead.

Or he tries to take the initiative himself, blissfully unaware that he's still the unwitting pawn of the very people he thinks he's successfully defying, because his actions end up predictably playing right into their hands.

Remember, both times that Illidan significantly struck out on his own - the middle of TFT and the events of TBC - it turned out that he was probably doing exactly what Kil'jaeden wanted him to do, all in the belief that he was being extremely clever and playing the Legion for fools.
I think Illidan proved he WAS extremely clever in TBC, considering the post BC lore.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:19 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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I think Illidan proved he WAS extremely clever in TBC, considering the post BC lore.
Yeah, and all it will take is people telling us after the fact how clever he was, because his own actual behavior to the contrary prevents them from showing us as much while he's alive and active.

The post-TBC lore proved only that he was doing more than we thought; not that it was especially clever. What was found in the Black Temple by warlocks questing for green fire indicated that the "more" basically amounted to synthesizing a new drug to replace an old one.

Illidan can't prove he's clever himself, because when Illidan's actually around, he's too busy being himself to be clever. Because Illidan isn't clever.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:28 PM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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TBC Illidan didn't really do anything. He was just a raid boss, like a dragon lying in his lair waiting to be killed, not a character in a story (which was Kael'thas). So they could pretty much make up anything about what he was really up to.


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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
So the demon hunter is a part of the Illidari. More demonic than others, they're going into a demon jail world, before ultimately being captured and imprisoned for about 10 years. How will they interact with the factions, if at all due to class halls?
I think it would make more sense for the playable demon hunters to get horns and stuff due to some event at the jail world, instead of starting out that way.


Anyway, they said PC demon hunters were imprisoned by the wardens, and then the wardens release them in this expansion. This seems to raise all sorts of questions.

If they were sent on a mission to another planet, and hence not at Black Temple when Illidan fell, why were they imprisoned? Did they just take a portal back to Black Temple after accomplishing whatever they were trying to do, and found themselves in a Black Temple controlled by Akama, who then hands them over to Maiev?

And what about the other Illidari? The Illidari consisted of blood elves and naga most prominently, as well as fel orcs and demons. Did the wardens imprison them as well? Or just the demon hunters? If just the demon hunters, why?


Also, playable demon hunters are presumably going to fight the naga in this expansion. Does it simply mean that Illidan and his demon hunters betray Azshara? Or was it an alliance of convenience in the first place? Vashj was fanatically loyal to Azshara 10,000 years ago, but she also seems very loyal to Illidan as well in TBC, suggesting that Illidan and Azshara were on the same side; but now they'll fight each other. I hope this expansion sheds some light on what exactly Azshara's plans were in sending Vashj and her naga to aid Illidan.

Last edited by Siegrune; 08-17-2015 at 09:07 PM..
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  #7  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:29 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Yeah, and all it will take is people telling us after the fact how clever he was, because his own actual behavior to the contrary prevents them from showing us as much while he's alive and active.

The post-TBC lore proved only that he was doing more than we thought; not that it was especially clever. What was found in the Black Temple by warlocks questing for green fire indicated that the "more" basically amounted to synthesizing a new drug to replace an old one.

Illidan can't prove he's clever himself, because when Illidan's actually around, he's too busy being himself to be clever. Because Illidan isn't clever.
Just like Malfurion and Thrall aren't wise, Jaime isn't intelligent, Tyrande isn't a good leader, ect.

It's ALWAYS tell, and not show with blizzard.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:40 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Remember, both times that Illidan significantly struck out on his own - the middle of TFT and the events of TBC - it turned out that he was probably doing exactly what Kil'jaeden wanted him to do, all in the belief that he was being extremely clever and playing the Legion for fools.
I don't think Kil'jaeden wanted his fully loyal pitlord with fully working Dimensional Gates that turned Draenor into a completely subservient demon world TRADED for a disloyal demon hunter that immediately started plans on how to fight the Legion and, well, freed the planet from demon control. The only benefit he sowed was Illidan's eventual defeat in his madness... and short-lived blood elf pawns.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:59 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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It would have been neat if Mags had been doing the same thing his successor Illidan did. With Sargeras seemingly lost, some of the less loyal demon lords ought to have declared themselves independent and carved out their own demonic kingdoms out of the big, BL pie.
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:07 AM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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It would have been neat if Mags had been doing the same thing his successor Illidan did. With Sargeras seemingly lost, some of the less loyal demon lords ought to have declared themselves independent and carved out their own demonic kingdoms out of the big, BL pie.
Well, Magtheridon was semi-independent. He declares himself Lord of Outland (emphasizing his lordship over a particular world, instead of his position within the main Legion hierarchy), "has become decadent and complacent" according to Illidan, and is so far out of the main chain of command that he suspects that Illidan had been sent by "the Legion" (as if he isn't part of it!) to test him.

But then again, Illidan's main reason for shutting down the Dimensional Gates and conquering the Black Temple is to "cleanse agents of Kil'jaeden from these lands." So Magtheridon or at least many of the demons under his command still obeyed or would have obeyed Kil'jaeden.
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:12 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Well, Magtheridon was semi-independent. He declares himself Lord of Outland (emphasizing his lordship over a particular world, instead of his position within the main Legion hierarchy), "has become decadent and complacent" according to Illidan, and is so far out of the main chain of command that he suspects that Illidan had been sent by "the Legion" (as if he isn't part of it!) to test him.

But then again, Illidan's main reason for shutting down the Dimensional Gates and conquering the Black Temple is to "cleanse agents of Kil'jaeden from these lands." So Magtheridon or at least many of the demons under his command still obeyed or would have obeyed Kil'jaeden.
I wasn't sure if he was really independent, so I didn't mention it. Thanks for confirming that he was somewhat rebellious.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:38 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I'd be interested to see who's the "Thassarian" and the "Koltira" of the Illidari. Obviously their races have been determined, but their character and how we interact with them has potential.
I hope rectoned Varedis and Alandien death

Last edited by Rhllor; 08-19-2015 at 06:43 PM..
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:00 PM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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I hope rectoned Varedis and Alandien death
On one hand, it seems likely that they'll give us the "good"/friendly demon hunters like Altruis as prominent NPCs; on the other hand, the playable demon hunters were technically in the same faction as the Illidari demon hunters like Varedis and Alandien, and in the case of the blood elven ones they were trained by Varedis and Alandien.

All I can hope for is that they don't simply say "Illidan is good, Varedis was evil," which would be a repeat of "Doomhammer is good, the orcs under him were evil."

Last edited by Siegrune; 08-19-2015 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:00 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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The Illidari need a lecherous, drunkard satyr.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:04 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I hope rectoned Varedis and Alandien death
Why retcon?
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:05 PM
Siegrune Siegrune is offline

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Why retcon?
They're listed as deceased on Wowpedia; it's probably standard to assume that quest mobs are slain, if the quest objective is to kill them.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:11 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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You could get NPCs following you in the questline, and join you near the end.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:11 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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They can just be brought back to life via dark rituals. Like Loramus.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:44 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
They're listed as deceased on Wowpedia; it's probably standard to assume that quest mobs are slain, if the quest objective is to kill them.
Demon hunter though
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:46 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Demon hunter though
I don't think those hunters were as corrupted as Illidan and the PCs. Also who'd even bother to summon them?
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:43 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
On one hand, it seems likely that they'll give us the "good"/friendly demon hunters like Altruis as prominent NPCs; on the other hand, the playable demon hunters were technically in the same faction as the Illidari demon hunters like Varedis and Alandien, and in the case of the blood elven ones they were trained by Varedis and Alandien.

All I can hope for is that they don't simply say "Illidan is good, Varedis was evil," which would be a repeat of "Doomhammer is good, the orcs under him were evil."
I also think Feronas, but Varedis and Alandien have to be, they were the instructors.



Last edited by Rhllor; 08-19-2015 at 09:47 PM..
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  #22  
Old 08-20-2015, 03:14 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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Also Alandien is the only female DH in canon.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:24 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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The dks had a bunch of Naxx cameos but they didn't turn good. We got new characters.
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:41 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Aren't Varedis and the other instructors more weak than the playable DH's?
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Old 08-20-2015, 03:46 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Aren't Varedis and the other instructors more weak than the playable DH's?
Depends on when the players start turning into demons, but considering that the players are the Order Masters of their respective class, yes.
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