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  #101  
Old 12-28-2017, 02:54 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Cacofonix View Post
They've never really addressed the Forsaken being in the Horde as they were shown through TFT to Vanilla (betrays Garithos' army, wars on their neighbors) that doesn't make Thrall and Co. unbelievably trusting of walking corpses or duplicitous and the Alliance unbelievably hostile towards sapient Undead (When's the last time the Alliance Death Knights got anything worse than rotten fruit?). Especially since WC3: RoC's manual talked about Thrall outlawing Necromancy since it was Old Horde magic.

I mean, it's obvious that the Forsaken only joined the Horde out of game design issues (let the Horde have a base in the Eastern Kingdoms).
Sylvanas had sent out messages to different people or factions. Thrall at first was going to say no, but was convinced by Hamuul to let them in, feeling they were like the orcs and deserved a chance. I’m pretty sure that’s on a website somewhere.

Varian feels too “soft” in the pic. Anduin looks out of place, almost photoshopped. That’s clearly Onyxia so once again idk what Shaman is on.

Arthas looks weird, and it’s funny that Jaina wears midriffs everywhere.

C’Thun looks too small, but I guess that that’s buried C’Thun.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.

Last edited by Noitora; 12-28-2017 at 02:59 PM..
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  #102  
Old 12-28-2017, 03:18 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Jaina & Arthas are fine. I like the happy "Disney" feel it has right before everything gets rekt.

As for Sylvanas, what other factions did she send messages to, besides the Horde and perhaps the Alliance?
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  #103  
Old 12-28-2017, 03:33 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is online now

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Sylvanas had sent out messages to different people or factions. Thrall at first was going to say no, but was convinced by Hamuul to let them in, feeling they were like the orcs and deserved a chance. I’m pretty sure that’s on a website somewhere.
Yup, it's from the Game Guide on the official site.

Here's the original version: https://web.archive.org/web/20131215...me/race/undead
Quote:
Despite not being affiliated with the Scourge, the Forsaken came under threat from humans who were dedicated to eradicating all Forsaken. As a means to further her own goals and protect her budding nation, Sylvanas sent emissaries to various factions in search of allies. The kind-hearted tauren of Thunder Bluff proved to be the most promising contact. Specifically, Archdruid Hamuul Runetotem saw the potential for redemption in Sylvanas’ people, even though he was fully aware of the Forsaken’s sinister nature. Thus, the tauren convinced Warchief Thrall, despite his misgivings, to forge an alliance of convenience between the Forsaken and the Horde. In the end, the Forsaken’s chances of victory against the Lich King were bolstered, while the Horde gained an invaluable foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms.
The current version is slightly different: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/undead
Quote:
To further her own goals and protect her budding nation, Sylvanas set out to forge alliances. Chief among these were the tauren of Thunder Bluff, who saw the potential for redemption in the Forsaken. Thus, the tauren convinced then-Warchief Thrall to forge an alliance of convenience between the Forsaken and the Horde.
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  #104  
Old 12-28-2017, 04:02 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I remember reading back in Vanilla it was the Grimtotem who facilitated the Forsaken joining the Horde.
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  #105  
Old 12-28-2017, 04:55 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I remember reading back in Vanilla it was the Grimtotem who facilitated the Forsaken joining the Horde.
Which is too bad that they never delved any further into that.

Didn't back in Vanilla the Grimtotem help the Forsaken with the Plague?
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  #106  
Old 12-29-2017, 01:39 AM
Fraznak Fraznak is offline

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I remember reading back in Vanilla it was the Grimtotem who facilitated the Forsaken joining the Horde.
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The first tablet goes to a tauren female... one called Magatha. She is among the elders in Thunder Bluff, and is one of the proponents of the alliance between the tauren and the Forsaken. She, more than anyone among the elders, feels the tauren and their ways can help the Forsaken find a path back to being human.

Bring her the [Tablet of Beth'Amara]. The tablet may be the link she needs in finding a way to help the Forsaken... or so she claims
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Didn't back in Vanilla the Grimtotem help the Forsaken with the Plague?
Magatha ask Forsaken for help with Stonetalon and they created some toxin
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The tauren have a bond with the land, and it pains me to hear of Stonetalon's plight. But I fear that to heal the land, we must first remove the disease upon it.

Is it not fortunate, then, that the Forsaken are allied with us? They know much of disease. I believe they can aid us, and by doing so they will strengthen the trust between our people
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I will create a toxin to bleed the violence from the Venture Company, rendering them weak and docile. That should fix the Horde's problem in Stonetalon, yes?
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  #107  
Old 12-29-2017, 08:24 AM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
Sylvanas had sent out messages to different people or factions. Thrall at first was going to say no, but was convinced by Hamuul to let them in, feeling they were like the orcs and deserved a chance. I’m pretty sure that’s on a website somewhere.
And that's weak. The Orcs under Thrall tried to be better. The Forsaken have never done this. Thrall wouldn't have grounds to trust their claims over calling it a ruse by the Scourge or something. Especially since the Tauren as a rule are all about the tree hugging while the Forsaken turn anywhere they invade into a sludge pit.

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Despite not being affiliated with the Scourge, the Forsaken came under threat from humans who were dedicated to eradicating all Forsaken.
I hope this isn't talking about the Alliance since that's not how the Alliance works (see the Death Knights and now Void Elves). The Silver Hand even helped Undead Plague victims if you remember.

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while the Horde gained an invaluable foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms.
That's being duplicitous. I recall Thrall trying to get away from humanity in RoC.

Last edited by Cacofonix; 12-29-2017 at 08:28 AM..
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  #108  
Old 12-29-2017, 10:56 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Honestly it was always extremely flimsy that the Scarlet Crusade were the only group in the entire world that seemed to think the "despite not being affiliated wit the Scourge" stuff could feasibly be a trick as all grounds for suspicion among the protagonists were either toned down or ignored outright for the sake of shoehorning them into a player faction.

After Arthas and Dar'khan destroyed two entire kingdoms by waltzing in pretending to be good guys so they could let in the rest of the Scourge, everyone should have been intensely paranoid about the Forsaken being more of the same thing. Hell, the fact Sylvanas leads the Forsaken should have had the blood elves trusting their intentions even less, because half of the Scourge is made up of familiar rotting faces anyway, so just because they used to know the talking corpse in charge wasn't remotely a good reason to trust her.

It always seemed kind of dumb and bizarre to me the way WoW treated the very idea of the Scourge covertly infiltrating the Forsken like it was somehow a ridiculous notion that only crazy Scarlet Crusaders would ever entertain, despite the pre-WoW Scourge being notable for using agents and champions who could pass for living (let alone free-willed undead) citizens of their enemies' kingdoms. An undead agent of the Scourge wouldn't even need magic or makeup to blend in at the Undercity, yet after all these years we had a ton of apothecaries secretly collaborating with the Burning Legion, and nary a single Forsaken ever turned out to be a spy for the Scourge the whole time.

Last edited by ARM3481; 12-29-2017 at 11:04 AM..
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  #109  
Old 12-29-2017, 09:24 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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The Forsaken are powered by bad worldbuilding/mary sue magic.
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  #110  
Old 12-29-2017, 10:18 PM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post

Arthas looks weird, and it’s funny that Jaina wears midriffs everywhere.
Blame her time in Dalaran IMHO. Elven ladies' fashion is all about bare midriff and Jaina most likely picked up her fashion sense from them while learning in Dalaran. Kul Tiran fashion sense looks nothing even close to it.
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  #111  
Old 12-29-2017, 11:39 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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The Forsaken are powered by bad worldbuilding/mary sue magic.
yes
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  #112  
Old 12-30-2017, 09:27 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Blame her time in Dalaran IMHO. Elven ladies' fashion is all about bare midriff and Jaina most likely picked up her fashion sense from them while learning in Dalaran. Kul Tiran fashion sense looks nothing even close to it.
Honestly makes sense.
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  #113  
Old 01-19-2018, 03:52 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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i want to see some kind of acknowledgement that it was the dwarves powering the alliance during vanilla time

sovereign imperative, largest conflict being between dwarves and orcs...

sending the largest alliance contingent to silithus to counter the silithid...

but i'm not holding out too much hope
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  #114  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:31 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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largest conflict being between dwarves and orcs...

sending the largest alliance contingent to silithus to counter the silithid...
Have any of those actually ever been suggested to be even remotely true, or is this just some wishful fan thinking with no actual basis?
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  #115  
Old 01-19-2018, 06:30 PM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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Have any of those actually ever been suggested to be even remotely true, or is this just some wishful fan thinking with no actual basis?
Wasn't it the Might of Kalimdor, a collaboration of the 7th Legion and the Kor'kron, all under the leadership of Varok Saufang?

Last edited by Genesis; 01-19-2018 at 06:32 PM..
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  #116  
Old 01-19-2018, 09:08 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I do believe dwarves played a major role in the Might of Kalimdor, alongside the orcs, yes. Them plus the 7th Legion.
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  #117  
Old 01-20-2018, 04:13 AM
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I do believe dwarves played a major role in the Might of Kalimdor, alongside the orcs, yes. Them plus the 7th Legion.
There is Duke August Foehammer and Ironforge Cavalrymen, but that's all that I can find referenced so far.
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  #118  
Old 01-20-2018, 04:35 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Wasn't it the Might of Kalimdor, a collaboration of the 7th Legion and the Kor'kron, all under the leadership of Varok Saufang?
I remember that Blizzard at one point sad that "the distant battlefields" of World of Warcraft Manual were Silithus (explaining the absence of Stormwind's military in Vanilla), but nothing on Ironforge being the largest Alliance contributor. And who knows if they still consider that canon.

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There is Duke August Foehammer and Ironforge Cavalrymen, but that's all that I can find referenced so far.
Ethenil likes headcanons aka conjectures he'd like to be true even though they are not.
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  #119  
Old 01-20-2018, 07:04 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Blame her time in Dalaran IMHO. Elven ladies' fashion is all about bare midriff and Jaina most likely picked up her fashion sense from them while learning in Dalaran. Kul Tiran fashion sense looks nothing even close to it.
I like you. I wish fashion was really a thing in WC
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  #120  
Old 01-20-2018, 04:43 PM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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... do i really need to spell it out? do people have that short memories?

the majority of the alliance soldier NPCs during the ahn'qiraj opening events were dwarves, with steam tanks, and cavalry. they were literally lined up opposite horde grunts on the hill leading down from cenarion hold





as for largest conflict in vanilla time being between dwarves and orcs. that's self-explanatory and i am honestly gobsmacked i need to explain it: alterac valley was the largest battleground in vanilla wow. it was between Stormpikes (Majority dwarves) and Frostwolves (Majority orcs)

the conflict was started by a sovereign imperative from ironforge, and the dwarves have repeatedly been named as the backbone of the alliance. i'd like to see that get a proper mention in the chronicles

Last edited by Thunderbraid; 01-20-2018 at 04:48 PM..
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  #121  
Old 01-21-2018, 10:30 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Sheesh why do you always act condescending whenever Dwarves are involved?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #122  
Old 01-21-2018, 12:44 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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... do i really need to spell it out? do people have that short memories?

the majority of the alliance soldier NPCs during the ahn'qiraj opening events were dwarves, with steam tanks, and cavalry. they were literally lined up opposite horde grunts on the hill leading down from cenarion hold

as for largest conflict in vanilla time being between dwarves and orcs. that's self-explanatory and i am honestly gobsmacked i need to explain it: alterac valley was the largest battleground in vanilla wow. it was between Stormpikes (Majority dwarves) and Frostwolves (Majority orcs)

the conflict was started by a sovereign imperative from ironforge, and the dwarves have repeatedly been named as the backbone of the alliance. i'd like to see that get a proper mention in the chronicles
yeah no one cares. Consider yourself lucky if it isnt retconned
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  #123  
Old 01-21-2018, 04:00 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Sheesh why do you always act condescending whenever Dwarves are involved?
he is the fojar of dwarves.
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  #124  
Old 01-21-2018, 04:33 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Yall are being jerks when he's not even saying anything unreasonable.
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  #125  
Old 01-21-2018, 11:04 PM
Al'Akir Al'Akir is offline

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Yall are being jerks when he's not even saying anything unreasonable.
+1


I, too, remember the dwarves being heavily represented in Silithus during that time, outnumbering the humans by a good amount. I cant remember why exactly, but I also do remember the dwarves being named for their contribution to the war effort above the other alliance races
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