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  #26  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:20 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Then you're gonna run into problems once all the spin offs start later during TNG.
And technically, you already fucked up by not watching Enterprise before TOS.
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  #27  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:58 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Deep Space Nine starts in Season 6 of TNG, so you have two seasons where those two are running beside one another.

Voyager starts in Season 3 of Deep Space Nine, and those two run together for the rest of the run of Deep Space Nine.

The TNG movies are spread around those. It gets even weirder if you want to try to watch them in Stardate order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Star_Trek
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  #28  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:39 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
And technically, you already fucked up by not watching Enterprise before TOS.
Oh, that depends on whether or not you see Enterprise as canon
(and just to be a bitch he's even more fucked because he should have watched Enterprise even before the Boom-Boom Abrams movies)
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  #29  
Old 07-17-2013, 10:46 AM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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I watched that animated series in my childhood, is it the same universe with the TV series?
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  #30  
Old 07-17-2013, 11:49 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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It's not canon.
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  #31  
Old 07-17-2013, 12:02 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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It's not canon.
It's on the official ST site now in both the database and episode list. CBS seems to have decided they are canon.
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  #32  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:15 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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From what I know, Roddenberry himself decanonized the show after being dissapointed with how it had turned out.

Later live action shows and movies then took some details from TAS and made them canon. Most famous is Kirk's middle name being Tiberius.
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  #33  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:28 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
From what I know, Roddenberry himself decanonized the show after being dissapointed with how it had turned out.

Later live action shows and movies then took some details from TAS and made them canon. Most famous is Kirk's middle name being Tiberius.
That was even apparently controversial at the time. But either way, the people in control of what is and is not canon now seem to have decided it's canon.
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  #34  
Old 07-18-2013, 04:00 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
And technically, you already fucked up by not watching Enterprise before TOS.
I have no interests in seeing Enterprise, because, well, critical and fan reviews of the show aren't exactly encouraging.

That's one of the main reasons why I didn't see many of TOS's Season 3 episodes.
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  #35  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:02 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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ENT isn't all that bad. Season 3 is quite decent if you can accept its rather controversial themes.
It's a bit less Star Trek and a bit more 24 in space.
Season 4 is awesome, but in order to get all of the enjoyment out of it you have to know your Trek.
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  #36  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:47 AM
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Yeah, I'd put a lot of Enterprise ahead of a lot of Voyager and some of TNG. It's worth watching but I'd watch it last.
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  #37  
Old 07-19-2013, 03:38 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spidey1980 View Post
ENT isn't all that bad. Season 3 is quite decent if you can accept its rather controversial themes.
It's a bit less Star Trek and a bit more 24 in space.
Season 4 is awesome, but in order to get all of the enjoyment out of it you have to know your Trek.
Maybe, I might consider watching it. But most likely, I won't.
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  #38  
Old 07-19-2013, 11:08 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Just throwing it out there, this is generally how i few Enterprise:
Season 1 and Season 2: boring Star Trek, in large parts bad (most of season 1), some of it very bad (example: Dear Doctor)
Season 3: no Star Trek, 'murrica in Space, better quality with darker and worse storyline (example: Damage)
Season 4: best Trek we had since DS9 ended. Seriously. If you like TOS you HAVE to watch season 4. Skip 1,2 and 3 if you must but don't cut yourself off from quality.

If you don't really need to watch everything in a show to enjoy it i recommend skipping Season 3 in it's entirety.
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  #39  
Old 07-19-2013, 12:49 PM
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I loved season 3 of ENT. After the utter horse crap of seasons 1 and 2, it was like a breath of fresh air. It's a season-long story arc that is the darkest storyline Trek has seen since the DS9 days. IMO, it was a major upswing in quality and an entertaining season.

I also loved season 4, but a part of that is due to all the TOS-inspired episodes they did. The season is a series of mini-arcs over the course of two or three episode bunches, with a couple stand alone single eps here and there. It is HEAVILY steeped in prior Trek lore. I'm honestly not sure how someone who isn't a big fan of the franchise would take it.
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  #40  
Old 07-20-2013, 04:12 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
Season 4: best Trek we had since DS9 ended. Seriously. If you like TOS you HAVE to watch season 4. Skip 1,2 and 3 if you must but don't cut yourself off from quality.

If you don't really need to watch everything in a show to enjoy it i recommend skipping Season 3 in it's entirety.
In that case I should watch the 4th Season, since I liked TOS.
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  #41  
Old 07-20-2013, 05:54 AM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Just start with Home. You can skip Stormfront. It's a stupid time travel two-parter that ties up lose ends from the previous season and then wipes itself out of canon entirely.
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  #42  
Old 07-20-2013, 08:14 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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I wish Abrams would do the same with his movies. Even when real Star Trek is crap it's still better than his.
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  #43  
Old 07-20-2013, 09:06 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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I wish Abrams would do the same with his movies. Even when real Star Trek is crap it's still better than his.
I think you're forgetting Star Trek 5.
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  #44  
Old 07-20-2013, 10:42 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by Rotal View Post
I wish Abrams would do the same with his movies. Even when real Star Trek is crap it's still better than his.
Tchah, the new Star Trek has revived the franchise. It was dying before that.

And the movies are good.

Last edited by CoDimus the Staunch; 12-16-2013 at 12:35 AM..
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  #45  
Old 07-20-2013, 11:18 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
I think you're forgetting Star Trek 5.
No. 5 is still better than 11*. Haven't heard anything that would convince me 12 is better either. I would count Threshhold as worse but they at least had the decensy to retcon it out of existence - so again, even when Star Trek is crap it's better than JJtrek.


* why? Because 5 feels like a movie that just doesn't work and was wrecked sometime during it's developement. It is bad because of it's makers legitimate inability to do a good movie. AbramsTrek, on the other hand, is crap because no one in developement gives a shit and even if it wasn't legitimately worse than 5 i'd still have no tolerance for this behaviour.

Last edited by Commander Rotal; 07-20-2013 at 11:31 PM..
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  #46  
Old 07-21-2013, 07:58 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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To be honest, Star Trek 5 should be forgotten and burned, like the Star Wars Holiday movie. The JJ movies, on the other hand, are actually good movies, which automatically makes them better than Star Trek 5.

May not be the Star Trek you remember, but it still has elements of it. Just buried behind more action that you need to be able to look past. But it did give the franchise a much needed boost in popularity (relying TNG can only take you so far, and other than the original none of the rest of the TV series did well enough to really hold the franchise up on their own IMO) and is bringing new people as well as older fans back.

Last edited by Garotar; 07-21-2013 at 08:01 AM..
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  #47  
Old 07-21-2013, 08:25 AM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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Both of the JJ movies are hands down better films in every possible way than TFF was.
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  #48  
Old 07-21-2013, 10:58 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
The JJ movies, on the other hand, are actually good movies,
Only if you completely shut off your damn brain to watch them. That's not "Star Trek needs to be cerebral!!111"-stupid, it's "the plot makes no sense"-stupid with plotholes the size of several black holes, stupid and unlikeable characters, a design that befits Star Wars more than anything else and morally questionable actions by both the bad guys AND heroes. You may like them and that's your right - but calling them "good movies" when you really should know they aren't just weakens your position by acting like a fanboy. Don't do it.
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  #49  
Old 07-21-2013, 04:19 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Only if you completely shut off your damn brain to watch them. That's not "Star Trek needs to be cerebral!!111"-stupid, it's "the plot makes no sense"-stupid with plotholes the size of several black holes, stupid and unlikeable characters, a design that befits Star Wars more than anything else and morally questionable actions by both the bad guys AND heroes. You may like them and that's your right - but calling them "good movies" when you really should know they aren't just weakens your position by acting like a fanboy. Don't do it.
You know, had there been anything in this that seemed like a coherent argument, it was lost the moment you used fanboy.

I never said that the movies were the best Star Trek movies, or that they were the best movies in existence (I think Pacific Rim with all it's various plotholes is a better movie). I like most of the Star Trek movies (with their various plot holes) better than these ones. I think most of the starship designs are better than the the ones in the JJ verse, the exception being the ship designs from TOS. My favourite Trek is TNG (including the movies) and DS9. But both JJ movies are certainly a hell of a lot better than Star Trek 5, which is one that should have been reconned (and was thankfully completely ignored) out of existence. Which if it makes you feel better, you can take by calling me a fanboy. Or you could just take it as I don't like Star Trek 5 and I think it really sucks.

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  #50  
Old 07-21-2013, 04:35 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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oh, 5 sucks balls, there's no argueing here.
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