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  #6726  
Old 09-13-2018, 05:05 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I don't think stopping the war to fight the enemy of the week will be satisfying at all. The conflict itself needs a resolution. Denying it will make everyone pissed off. It's a cheap way out.
I most definitely agree that shifting the focus onto N’zoth or Azshara or any other 3rd party would be a great disappointment. But what would satisfy both sides that can actually be given?

We can’t give either side total victory.

I’d say the Alliance wants to stop being the victim of the Horde. They want to be strong, they want to win, and they want retribution. I’d like to think taking down Sylvanas (and making that a clear Alliance Victory with little to no Horde involvement) might satisfy that. Maybe getting a little bit more aggressive, taking not only the initiative but taking the kind of extreme actions Sylvanas has been up to might please them, but that’s probably a harder sell.

The Horde is divided in what it wants. There’s the #nohonornopauldrons crowd who wants redemption, a return to the Horde of Thrall, Warcraft 3, etc. etc. there’s the “Sylvanas Did Nothing Wrong” who want vindication and victory. I find myself stuck between them, sympathizing with the Saurfang for Warchief crowd but wanting to know exactly what Vol’jin and the Loa had in mind for Sylvanas as War Cheif. The only way I see both sides being reconciled is if Sylvanas accomplishes something of great value to the Horde or to the World, and then falls, with someone like Saurfang or Baine stepping in to take her place.

Finally, there will need to be some resolution to the Heart of Azeroth storyline. I imagine this will also remove Azerite as a resource, so, that may be interesting. Probably will happen in the post raid, same as the whole discovery of Azerite in the first place.

I feel like 8.3 is going to be the Siege of Stormwind. It’s been brought up in the Novel and a Good War as the ultimate goal of this war. An Alliance only Mythic Dungeon will show us the Fall of Sylvannas, while a Horde one will involve freeing Saurfang (these may come in patch 8.2.5, but 8.3 with the Raid hitting in 8.3.5 might do the trick). Of course these dungeons will eventually be available to both sides, but it will be as ackward as all these other cross-factional dungeons have been. The Raid might involve a couple mirrored bosses for each faction, and I can see potential for shared bosses. For instance, someone might summon up a monster/elemental/Loa that reaks havoc on their enemies, but that they can’t control and that needs to be put down by either side. I do expect a sea battle between Jaina’s Flying Galleon and maybe some Warship with Talanji giving magical boosts.

Actually, that may be the finale. The Horde manages to take the city, but Saurfang calls for a retreat (either for reasons of honor or because there’s no way they’ll be able to hold it, or both). They are retreating through the harbor when Jaina shows up in her War Galleon with the Kul’Tiran Fleet to cut them off. There’s a big ship fight, with Horde players buying just enough time for a retreat but Alliance getting to reclaim the City. Both sides lick their wounds on their respective continents.
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  #6727  
Old 09-13-2018, 09:13 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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If you run this command in-game:

/run for i=5,12 do local n,d = C_ContributionCollector.GetName(i), C_ContributionCollector.GetDescription(i) if n ~= "" then print(n..": "..d) end end

You'll see this:

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  #6728  
Old 09-13-2018, 10:07 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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It's interesting that, with the exception of Stromgarde, all these Warfronts are about the Alliance attacking Horde capitals. Could we finally be seeing the turnaround/Alliance on the offensive this could desperately use? Having the Horde be on the defensive for a change would be great.
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  #6729  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:37 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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You know the alliance is more on the offensive this expansion than the horde is.

This is if you take the questing into account, and seeing as arathi is neutral.
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  #6730  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:42 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Too one-sided. The Horde gets rekt in the Eastern Kingdoms as well as in North and South Kalimdor? Could just be remnants of earlier iterations of warfronts, where prominent cities are besieged and are not necessarily canon?
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  #6731  
Old 09-13-2018, 11:47 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
You know the alliance is more on the offensive this expansion than the horde is.

This is if you take the questing into account, and seeing as arathi is neutral.
Wait? When are they more on the offensive in questing? The only times there are direct faction conflict during the questing is when the Horde attacks Stormsong, and the war campaign quests which are mirrored?
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  #6732  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:30 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Warfront: Launch a massive Naval assault on the home of Gallywix.
I think this battle will happen on high seas.
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  #6733  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:45 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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The world quests for alliance is all about sabotaging the hordes operation in zandalar while the horde merely has operations in kul tiras. and just take some resources, the alliance does more stuff and are planning some invasion while horde one just feels like you are trolling the Proudmoores.
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  #6734  
Old 09-13-2018, 12:49 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Are there files for any of these besides the Barrens one? I don't doubt the text is real but I question if any more work has gone into these besides Barrens or if they were early ideas that ultimately didn't go anywhere.
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  #6735  
Old 09-13-2018, 01:07 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Are there files for any of these besides the Barrens one? I don't doubt the text is real but I question if any more work has gone into these besides Barrens or if they were early ideas that ultimately didn't go anywhere.
Ujimasa on the Discord found a new zone/instance called "Silvermoon City" was added in 8.0.1 that's labeled as contested rather than Horde territory like the current one.

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
Too one-sided. The Horde gets rekt in the Eastern Kingdoms as well as in North and South Kalimdor? Could just be remnants of earlier iterations of warfronts, where prominent cities are besieged and are not necessarily canon?
You could make the argument that the Alliance got rekt in the Eastern Kingdoms and as well as North and South Kalimdor in Cata and MoP, this might be a deliberate nod/reversal to that.

Though also its more likely that if when we get an idea of who the canonical winners of the warfronts are I'd doubt the Horde don't win in the Barrens and Azshara. (I could see the Alliance maybe winning Silvermoon but only because there's also all those missions about the Horde planning an invasion of Azuremyst and Blizzard does seem to be leaning on the each faction gets one continent idea).

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 09-13-2018 at 01:14 PM..
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  #6736  
Old 09-13-2018, 08:01 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
If you run this command in-game:

/run for i=5,12 do local n,d = C_ContributionCollector.GetName(i), C_ContributionCollector.GetDescription(i) if n ~= "" then print(n..": "..d) end end

You'll see this:

This definitely effects how I see the expansion playing out.

8.1: in addition to Azshara, I’d expect a Wailing Caverns revamp as well as the Barrens Warfront. We’re expecting Kul’Tiran and Zandalari about now.

8.2: Silvermoon Warfront with the invasion of Azuermust as a quest line? A Scenario? Not sure about the main thrust. Might not be a bad time for the Undead and Worgen Allied Races with us over in the Eastern Kingdoms again. Maybe a Sunwell Plateau revamp.

8.3: Siege of Stormwind Raid, as exploiting Alliance overreach at Azshara. I wonder if we’ll see Gallywix die? He’s just as bad as Sylvanas if not worse. Probably get our Goblin and Gnome Allied Races here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
......



You could make the argument that the Alliance got rekt in the Eastern Kingdoms and as well as North and South Kalimdor in Cata and MoP, this might be a deliberate nod/reversal to that.

Though also its more likely that if when we get an idea of who the canonical winners of the warfronts are I'd doubt the Horde don't win in the Barrens and Azshara. (I could see the Alliance maybe winning Silvermoon but only because there's also all those missions about the Horde planning an invasion of Azuremyst and Blizzard does seem to be leaning on the each faction gets one continent idea).
I’d argue that in attacking some of these locations the Alliance is overextending themselves. Mulgore certainly isn’t a fight I’d pick for an early offensive (Wrathion estimated 2 years before the fall of Thunder Bluff). Azshara is exceedingly easy to reinforce and resupply from Orgrimmar/Durotar. I mean both of these would be strong victories, but not ones I’d bet on.

As for Silvermoon, here’s how I see the sequence of events:
-Alleria, Umbric, and Arator take the Alliance lead in this Warfront.
-Arator goes down, and with him, Alleria’s only anchor to Sanity.
-Consumed with Vengeance and the Void, Alleria corrupts the Sunwell, casting Quel’thalas into Shadow.
-Sunwell Plateau Revamp has us destroy the Sunwell. Blood Elves retreat.
-optional/bonus: this assault on her homeland draws out Sylvanas. She is obviously disturbed/distressed at this turn of events. Might cause her to regret/repent, might make her surrender herself (not necessarily the whole Horde), or might make her even more genocidal. I could see it going either way.
-(future dream) Blood Knights find a new support in a forgotten Zandalari Sun Loa (no official Troll/Elf name, I propose Belor), better known by his Tauren name: An’she. Might be Bwomsamdi’s boss. Blood Knights and Sunwalkers (and Freethinkers?) form their own united order of Paladins to rival the Knights of the Silver Hand.
-???
-profit.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 09-14-2018 at 03:40 AM..
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  #6737  
Old 09-14-2018, 07:06 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
This definitely effects how I see the expansion playing out.

8.1: in addition to Azshara, I’d expect a Wailing Caverns revamp as well as the Barrens Warfront. We’re expecting Kul’Tiran and Zandalari about now.

8.2: Silvermoon Warfront with the invasion of Azuermust as a quest line? A Scenario? Not sure about the main thrust. Might not be a bad time for the Undead and Worgen Allied Races with us over in the Eastern Kingdoms again. Maybe a Sunwell Plateau revamp.

8.3: Siege of Stormwind Raid, as exploiting Alliance overreach at Azshara. I wonder if we’ll see Gallywix die? He’s just as bad as Sylvanas if not worse. Probably get our Goblin and Gnome Allied Races here.



I’d argue that in attacking some of these locations the Alliance is overextending themselves. Mulgore certainly isn’t a fight I’d pick for an early offensive (Wrathion estimated 2 years before the fall of Thunder Bluff). Azshara is exceedingly easy to reinforce and resupply from Orgrimmar/Durotar. I mean both of these would be strong victories, but not ones I’d bet on.

As for Silvermoon, here’s how I see the sequence of events:
-Alleria, Umbric, and Arator take the Alliance lead in this Warfront.
-Arator goes down, and with him, Alleria’s only anchor to Sanity.
-Consumed with Vengeance and the Void, Alleria corrupts the Sunwell, casting Quel’thalas into Shadow.
-Sunwell Plateau Revamp has us destroy the Sunwell. Blood Elves retreat.
-optional/bonus: this assault on her homeland draws out Sylvanas. She is obviously disturbed/distressed at this turn of events. Might cause her to regret/repent, might make her surrender herself (not necessarily the whole Horde), or might make her even more genocidal. I could see it going either way.
-(future dream) Blood Knights find a new support in a forgotten Zandalari Sun Loa (no official Troll/Elf name, I propose Belor), better known by his Tauren name: An’she. Might be Bwomsamdi’s boss. Blood Knights and Sunwalkers (and Freethinkers?) form their own united order of Paladins to rival the Knights of the Silver Hand.
-???
-profit.
Oh man, that would be so cool if that all happened. I've long wanted more info on An'she. Didn't he have a presence in legion where you received his blessing? I might be mis-remembering.

I'm so unhappy with the way the story's gone that I've been unsubscribed for months. But then they have interesting things like the botani in the barrens that I want to see where it goes. I miss running around in the game too. I don't know what to do.
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  #6738  
Old 09-14-2018, 08:21 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Yes, let's ruin the entire point of Void Elves and their narrative just so Blood Elves can feel better about themselves.
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  #6739  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:30 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Yes, let's ruin the entire point of Void Elves and their narrative just so Blood Elves can feel better about themselves.
They have been foreshadowing that something bad is going to happen to Alleria pretty heavily though, saying that her love for Arator is the only thing keeping her from embracing the Void and confirming the "her third death will usher us in" quote refers to Alleria.

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 09-14-2018 at 09:32 AM..
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  #6740  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:31 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Yes, let's ruin the entire point of Void Elves and their narrative just so Blood Elves can feel better about themselves.
How so, Grim?
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  #6741  
Old 09-14-2018, 09:31 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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The thing with the Southern Barrens Warfront...honestly marching on Thunder Bluff has always struck me as a patently stupid idea. Access to it is through a now-fortified, natural bottleneck, meaning all you'd really have to do to remove their overland forces from the war is park a moderately sized army outside the gates and lob occasional rocks at them. Putting themselves behind a gate that gets closed when a threat is near means the tauren have already throttled their ability to sally forth and retaliate once it's being attacked.

By actually breaching the gates and invading, a hostile army would basically be subjecting themselves to the very situation they should be using against the tauren by putting the Barrens at their back, leaving themselves vulnerable to Orgrimmar eventually retaking the gate from the east and trapping them in Mulgore.

That's all ignoring the fact that actually besieging Thunder Bluff isn't really viable; the only way to reliably attack is by air, and an air force can't really occupy a city the way an army on foot can.
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  #6742  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:11 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
They have been foreshadowing that something bad is going to happen to Alleria pretty heavily though, saying that her love for Arator is the only thing keeping her from embracing the Void and confirming the "her third death will usher us in" quote refers to Alleria.
I don't think you were supposed to see that as foreshadowing something bad. It's one of those "love conquers darkness" tropes.
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  #6743  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:40 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I don't think you were supposed to see that as foreshadowing something bad. It's one of those "love conquers darkness" tropes.
I saw it more as one of those "<character and or object>'s importance to keeping things stable and happy is emphasized, said character/object then gets killed to move the story foward" tropes. Could be me just thinking of more pessimistic story tropes though.
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  #6744  
Old 09-14-2018, 12:04 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I don't think you were supposed to see that as foreshadowing something bad. It's one of those "love conquers darkness" tropes.
I thought that they were foreshadowing something with Alleria though? With her mentioning that it feels like she's 'died twice' and the prophecy mentioning 'at the hour of her third death she will usher in our coming'.
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  #6745  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:34 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Ion's first answer on the QnA is out: https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...?context=10000

Basically, he thinks on-proc DoT azerite traits shouldn't be as strong as rotation-changing ones, and tuning changes are to come in the approximate future.
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  #6746  
Old 09-14-2018, 02:55 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Yes, let's ruin the entire point of Void Elves and their narrative just so Blood Elves can feel better about themselves.
Grim, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t have a dark race without them doing dark things. If they are to be shown struggling with the Void, then occasionally they must fail, and that failure must have consequences.

That said, even if Alleria does fall off the deep end, that doesn’t mean that’s the end for her. Perhaps one or both of her sisters could save her. Turalyon could save her. She was ready to give up on her sisterhood and her marriage as of Three Sisters. Wouldn’t it be something if after she falls one of those relationships were to bring her back. Or perhaps, for the sake of her sister, Sylvanas will sacrifice her remaining Val’kyr to bring back Arator alive. Even if she becomes a raid/dungeon boss that can still work out, as there are plenty those that we’ve managed to refrain from killing.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 09-14-2018 at 03:21 PM..
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  #6747  
Old 09-14-2018, 04:10 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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There are groups that use Holy Light for evil purposes in this setting, why can't there be groups that use Shadow magic for good? Void Elves are actually unique in that regard, and I think this story direction would ruin the entire point of them, which is that what's dark isn't always evil.
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  #6748  
Old 09-14-2018, 06:02 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Ion's AMA just ended. While most answers were "look for more information later" type information, he did share some unique details:

-Multiple new warfronts are coming, (he didn't say they were the Barrens, Silvermoon, and Azshara, but given he said more than one additional one I think it's pretty likely), the goal being that there will be enough that both factions will have at least one warfront in each stage of progression (i.e. open, one at the resource contribution phase, and one captured).

-They gave the alliance only horses for rep mounts because all the unique Kul Tiran creatures are flying mounts while Horde had lots of ground creatures to use (this doesn't acknowledge that two out of the three horde rep mounts are flying mounts though, or that we see wicker beasts used as mounts by the witches in Drustvar). They are going to add the Stormsong bee mount as a rep reward though (presumably from a new rep or through paragon rep).

-Paragon reputations are coming back (I really hope its' reworked).

And the big news:

-Patch 8.1 will be revealed next Tuesday with a special 8.1 themed live Q and A, with it going up on the PTR "soon after."

Last edited by Insane Guy of Doom; 09-14-2018 at 06:11 PM..
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  #6749  
Old 09-14-2018, 07:40 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There are groups that use Holy Light for evil purposes in this setting, why can't there be groups that use Shadow magic for good? Void Elves are actually unique in that regard, and I think this story direction would ruin the entire point of them, which is that what's dark isn't always evil.
Oh I most definitely agree that the Void can be used for good, but you have to acknowledge that since it is an inherently corruptive influence using it for good is a constant struggle for control (as Alleria says). If something is a constant struggle then I should reasonably expect to see failure once in a while. Alleria’s conditions for failure to maintain control couldn’t have been spelled out more clearly. I suspect foreshadowing.

This doesn’t even have to be malevolence. Alleria would be losing control, not choosing evil. That gives her room to be saved. It gives the Alliance guilt without actually having to change their character.
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Old 09-14-2018, 08:02 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
As for Silvermoon, here’s how I see the sequence of events:
-Alleria, Umbric, and Arator take the Alliance lead in this Warfront.
-Arator goes down, and with him, Alleria’s only anchor to Sanity.
-Consumed with Vengeance and the Void, Alleria corrupts the Sunwell, casting Quel’thalas into Shadow.
-Sunwell Plateau Revamp has us destroy the Sunwell. Blood Elves retreat.
-optional/bonus: this assault on her homeland draws out Sylvanas. She is obviously disturbed/distressed at this turn of events. Might cause her to regret/repent, might make her surrender herself (not necessarily the whole Horde), or might make her even more genocidal. I could see it going either way.
-(future dream) Blood Knights find a new support in a forgotten Zandalari Sun Loa (no official Troll/Elf name, I propose Belor), better known by his Tauren name: An’she. Might be Bwomsamdi’s boss. Blood Knights and Sunwalkers (and Freethinkers?) form their own united order of Paladins to rival the Knights of the Silver Hand.
-???
-profit.
Holy fuck man this is amazing. I'd totally love it, especially the part about the Blood Knights and the Zandalari. They should be called the Walkers of the Bleeding Sun.

I even like the part where Sylvanas feels some kind of guilt.
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