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  #11476  
Old 11-17-2017, 03:31 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Of course, the right is all about "support our troops" until it's not convenient for them. Typical.
I support plenty of fuck ups. Thats part of what taxes are for.
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  #11477  
Old 11-17-2017, 03:32 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I support plenty of fuck ups. Thats part of what taxes are for.
"Plenty of fuck ups." It's good to know how the right really feels about the military.
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  #11478  
Old 11-17-2017, 03:37 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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"Plenty of fuck ups." It's good to know how the right really feels about the military.
Again..

Atheist, antitheist, prochoice, pro gay marriage.

Im only "right" because you are so far left, anything right of communism is considered far right
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  #11479  
Old 11-17-2017, 03:58 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Again..

Atheist, antitheist, prochoice, pro gay marriage.

Im only "right" because you are so far left, anything right of communism is considered far right
Nah, you're just edgy-right.

Closer to being on topic with this thread, Cap'n Crunch has finally been banned from conferences/conventions after decades of being that creepy old guy who was always trying to get younger guys alone and get touchy with them.
https://slashdot.org/story/17/11/17/...riate-behavior
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  #11480  
Old 11-17-2017, 04:00 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Correct, none of those are radical. There is nothing wrong with any of those, and most Americans actually agree.
Thanks for making my point.

You're utterly inflexible, condescending, and wrong. Even with Trump getting elected and the GOP winning majorities throughout Congress and state governments nationwide, you're in absolute denial that your worldview might not be correct.

At least you're not alone in this regard. You're just like every other leftist, who will continue to wail and scream and cry about racism or some other weak shit as the GOP continues to trot out radicals who win just because the right wants nothing more than to tell you to go fuck yourself at the ballot box.
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  #11481  
Old 11-17-2017, 04:07 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Thanks for making my point.

You're utterly inflexible, condescending, and wrong. Even with Trump getting elected and the GOP winning majorities throughout Congress and state governments nationwide, you're in absolute denial that your worldview might not be correct.

At least you're not alone in this regard. You're just like every other leftist, who will continue to wail and scream and cry about racism or some other weak shit as the GOP continues to trot out radicals who win just because the right wants nothing more than to tell you to go fuck yourself at the ballot box.
Nothing in this post makes sense. Are you saying that pedophile donnie won the republican primary because he was running against "leftists?"
It's also quite sad that things like people who love each other but happen to be gay being allowed to get married is something that you feel so strongly about that you're willing to throw everything else out the window. I've never understood that about rightists. They just run on so much hate and then cry about "muh SJWs and PC run amok" whenever someone says something like "maybe you shouldn't call those people 'niggers.'" That kind of attitude and hatred of Freedom is why Obama won twice, and why the """left""" is making a comeback.
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  #11482  
Old 11-17-2017, 04:17 PM
Bolvar Bolvar is offline

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Nothing in this post makes sense. Are you saying that pedophile donnie won the republican primary because he was running against "leftists?"
It's also quite sad that things like people who love each other but happen to be gay being allowed to get married is something that you feel so strongly about that you're willing to throw everything else out the window. I've never understood that about rightists. They just run on so much hate and then cry about "muh SJWs and PC run amok" whenever someone says something like "maybe you shouldn't call those people 'niggers.'" That kind of attitude and hatred of Freedom is why Obama won twice, and why the """left""" is making a comeback.

You literally just did what I said you would do... made an utterly unfounded attempt to paint me as a racist when I said nothing racist whatsoever.
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  #11483  
Old 11-17-2017, 04:42 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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You literally just did what I said you would do... made an utterly unfounded attempt to paint me as a racist when I said nothing racist whatsoever.
Maybe you should look inward instead of complaining about people calling you racist if it happens as much as you claim.
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  #11484  
Old 11-17-2017, 04:46 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Maybe you should look inward instead of complaining about people calling you racist if it happens as much as you claim.
Pretty sure victim blaming is against the leftist creed, brotates
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  #11485  
Old 11-17-2017, 05:23 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Thanks for making my point.

You're utterly inflexible, condescending, and wrong. Even with Trump getting elected and the GOP winning majorities throughout Congress and state governments nationwide, you're in absolute denial that your worldview might not be correct.

At least you're not alone in this regard. You're just like every other leftist, who will continue to wail and scream and cry about racism or some other weak shit as the GOP continues to trot out radicals who win just because the right wants nothing more than to tell you to go fuck yourself at the ballot box.
Kak isn't QUITE like any Leftist. According to Obama, he gets lumped together with the ignorant Rightists.

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It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations
Kak is a gun-clinger. And the radical left tosses him in the pile of deplorables, just like the rest of us.
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  #11486  
Old Yesterday, 12:46 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
You're utterly inflexible, condescending, and wrong.
Kettle, may I introduce you to pot?

Now I may be out of my element, speaking on the subject as a non-American, but taking (what seems to me) your local (and politically biased) social norms and ideals and framing them as "core American traditions" or some shit sounds to me like a whole load of bullshit. I think anyone foreign to the US (and dare I say most people within the US) would claim that your shtick is "freedom and liberty for all, no matter their religion or creed", not "God hates fags so let's not let them get married, yeah?".
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  #11487  
Old Yesterday, 03:35 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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your shtick is "freedom and liberty for all, no matter their religion or creed", not "God hates fags so let's not let them get married, yeah?".
For many of us, forcing businesses to participate in or create products for events/ceremonies that go against their religion is a violation of "freedom and liberty for all, no matter their religion or creed". It's like forcing a kosher deli to sell pork.

They may not be a majority yet, but I've spoken with some leftists who won't be satisfied until all clergy are required by law to officiate gay weddings. And you know that's ridiculous. I mean... my clergy already won't officiate weddings between certain divorced heterosexual people, but no one's trying to force that on us. Strange discrepancy.

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  #11488  
Old Yesterday, 03:51 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
For many of us, forcing businesses to participate in or create products for events/ceremonies that go against their religion is a violation of "freedom and liberty for all, no matter their religion or creed". It's like forcing a kosher deli to sell pork.

They may not be a majority yet, but I've spoken with some leftists who won't be satisfied until all clergy are required by law to officiate gay weddings. And you know that's ridiculous. I mean... my clergy already won't officiate weddings between certain divorced heterosexual people, but no one's trying to force that on us. Strange discrepancy.
Since you don't have a state church, I agree, your congregations should have the freedom to deny homosexual weddings, and bakers shouldn't have to bake homocakes if they don't want to, and a private business should be allowed to refuse service to whoever they want to. It's their loss. But is that what the issue is really about?

Has it been possible to get married outside of a religious institution in the US, to reap tax benefits and insurance and what have you all this time? Is the federal government forcing churches to marry gays (I'd love to see Westboro Baptist Church's reaction to that)?

Also worth pointing out; a deli that doesn't sell pork can hardly qualify as a deli. How are they supposed to make BLTs?
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  #11489  
Old Yesterday, 05:05 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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But is that what the issue is really about?

Has it been possible to get married outside of a religious institution in the US, to reap tax benefits and insurance and what have you all this time?
It's all too connected now; government benefits have become too entangled with social fluff.

What happens when a household of four roommates wants to enjoy tax benefits and insurance as a single entity? We'll say no. Okay, so what if those four people want to be married? Because they invoke their rights as...

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
people who love each other
People who love each other. Don't they deserve to be married? It's hard to answer because, once upon a time, marriage was an institution sanctioned by a state and a church that were themselves joined together. And now, as they struggle for custody over this institution, they find that they still have traditional attachments that don't make much sense in a modern context.

Private clergy aren't government officials, but they officiate in this government ceremony. The government is supposed to "stay out of the bedroom", but officials and voters still base this household status around people being allowed to "love each other".

If church and state really are separate, I don't want my government having any reaction over who loves whom. I want to make the divorce final.
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  #11490  
Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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What happens when a household of four roommates wants to enjoy tax benefits and insurance as a single entity? We'll say no. Okay, so what if those four people want to be married? Because they invoke their rights as...
Is that a polygamy argument? How'd we drag the mormons into this?

What if it's just two roommates, they can be male and female, or two of the same sex, it doesn't matter, entering into marriage for the purpose of tax benefits and insurance? They don't love each other or anything, they just want the benefits because they've planned on being roommates for some time, and it'd make life easier for them. Why shouldn't they be allowed to reap the same benefits as two people in love, if they share a household? And if it's an issue with the sanctity of the ceremony, and keeping the promise made when swearing "I do", is civil marriage not a thing in the US? Does it have to go through a religious institution, or is the problem that people insist on holding their ceremonies in a church, officiated by a priest?

Which brings me to another point, regarding gay marriage; why on Earth would a gay couple want to marry themselves in the name of a God and religion who think their entire lifestyle is sinful?
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  #11491  
Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Going back a bit...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar
All male feminists are closet rapists.
Not all of them, but it sure is nice to see them getting called out on their hypocrisy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar
Gay marriage
Transgendered military members
Court rulings supporting leftist business discrimination, but punishing the same for conservatives
Socialized medicine forcing businesses and taxpayers to pay for abortion/birth control
I only consider about half of those to be radical. Why should a gay couple not have the same marital rights as anyone else? What's wrong with someone who is transgendered serving in the military (note that this does not always mean physical combat, as I understand the limits of what women can do versus men).
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  #11492  
Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Is that a polygamy argument? How'd we drag the mormons into this?
They've been in it for over a century. Huge part of U.S. history, though their media spotlight is low nowadays.

Supreme Court powah: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reyn..._United_States

Quote:
What if it's just two roommates, they can be male and female, or two of the same sex, it doesn't matter, entering into marriage for the purpose of tax benefits and insurance? They don't love each other or anything, they just want the benefits because they've planned on being roommates for some time, and it'd make life easier for them. Why shouldn't they be allowed to reap the same benefits as two people in love, if they share a household?
You're not arguing with me. And you're not sounding like America's radical left.

Quote:
Which brings me to another point, regarding gay marriage; why on Earth would a gay couple want to marry themselves in the name of a God and religion who think their entire lifestyle is sinful?
Your guess is as good as mine.
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  #11493  
Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Has it been possible to get married outside of a religious institution in the US, to reap tax benefits and insurance and what have you all this time? Is the federal government forcing churches to marry gays (I'd love to see Westboro Baptist Church's reaction to that)?
I mean, its not "new" if thats what youre asking. Its been legal in states. The Supreme Court ruling was only after it was legal in most states. Not that it wasnt a hard fight for people to make it so.

But if you think Gay Marriage got legalized under Obama with the Supreme Court coming down and lifting a veil? yeah no. It just took out the dissenters.
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  #11494  
Old Yesterday, 12:33 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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But if you think Gay Marriage got legalized under Obama with the Supreme Court coming down and lifting a veil? yeah no. It just took out the dissenters.
Yeah, no, I'm pretty ignorant to the broader scope, but I don't think the Gay Marriage thing the other year was some spark or awakening. It was more like the last nail in a coffin that's been in the process of being shut close for some decades now.

Whilst my questions may be confrontative, they're actually genuine. Like I said, as a foreigner I'm aware that I'm out of my element discussing an issue I have very little insight into outside of very mainstream media. And I'm probably full of preconceived opinions on the matter too.
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  #11495  
Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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My position was always a simple one: Not everything needs to be "marriage." You can have all the same legal and social advantages without calling it such. We could have sidestepped the whole controversy by just letting each church decide their own system, but let people actually get married by the court. If you want a religious thing, just call it a "Jesus Fuck-Bond" or something, I don't care, just don't call it marriage since that would have the actual legal connotations.
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  #11496  
Old Yesterday, 01:44 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Civil unions are a thing.
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  #11497  
Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Civil unions are a thing.
I'm okay with churches using that name while the court does marriages, sure.
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  #11498  
Old Yesterday, 03:44 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
If you want a religious thing, just call it a "Jesus Fuck-Bond" or something, I don't care, just don't call it marriage since that would have the actual legal connotations.
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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
I'm okay with churches using that name while the court does marriages, sure.
Both institutions have claim on the word. Just have the legal version of marriage, and understand it's unrelated to the spiritual version.

(Saying religions can't claim a word is against the First Amendment, but I suspect you're firing a pre-emptive volley against us who would take the word away from the government, because you do that in your arguments sometimes. Fair enough.)

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  #11499  
Old Yesterday, 04:01 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Both institutions have claim on the word. Just have the legal version of marriage, and understand it's unrelated to the spiritual version.

(Saying religions can't claim a word is against the First Amendment, but I suspect you're firing a pre-emptive volley against us who would take the word away from the government, because you do that in your arguments sometimes. Fair enough.)
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