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  #57201  
Old 12-14-2017, 07:19 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Casting doubt.

Piggybacking on that doubt to further throw support for Trump and cast doubt on Trump's accusers.

And a disclaimer in case someone calls his bullshit.

There is a lot of evidence, including some open local secrets such as Moore being banned from malls due to his lecherous behavior around teenage women, that certainly would give weight to the claims of Moore's accusers.
Well yes. Thats what you do without evidence. Innocent until proven guilty. Casting doubt is the entire basis of our legal system (and, in theory, our social interactions. Witch hunting and all being a pretty good reason why we do it that way).

Im unaware of the mall thing, but a quick google search gives a Snopes article where they claim there is no proof of him being banned.

Some sources say he was, the manager of the mall at the time say he wasn't...

All of which is besides the point. If there isn't proof (and accusations aren't proof), then it shouldn't be accepted as true. Pretty sure that was covered with Job (Though I'll give you what constitutes proof is different these days)

Put another way, believe the victim, don't condemn the accused.
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  #57202  
Old 12-14-2017, 09:14 AM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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And yet you were willing to condemn the accused when she was a Democratic candidate.
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  #57203  
Old 12-14-2017, 04:21 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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And yet you were willing to condemn the accused when she was a Democratic candidate.
It’s weird that you expect consistency on this forum.
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  #57204  
Old 12-14-2017, 04:32 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Casting doubt.

Piggybacking on that doubt to further throw support for Trump and cast doubt on Trump's accusers.

And a disclaimer in case someone calls his bullshit.

There is a lot of evidence, including some open local secrets such as Moore being banned from malls due to his lecherous behavior around teenage women, that certainly would give weight to the claims of Moore's accusers.
He also got kicked out of the YWCA. It's also hilarious to see many republicans denying Trump's crimes when three of the four people indicted have pled guilty; More importantly he moves to fire Moore AFTER his bank records got subpoenaed.

Trump's going down hard, and he's gonna drag the rethuglicans down with him. And I will be laughing my ass off
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  #57205  
Old 12-14-2017, 08:58 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
And yet you were willing to condemn the accused when she was a Democratic candidate.
Because her server was proven. Because it was more than accusation. There is evidence.

What I disagreed with was that it was not a crime and how the FBI handled it.

I did not condemn Clinton for Benghazi.

I have not, in more recent examples, used the recent FBI issues with the investigation "because" there is no proof, just accusations
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  #57206  
Old 12-15-2017, 01:43 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Due to rapepublican fuckery, the federal courts are still ready to be stuffed by the president, who has apparently finally gotten around to picking people for it. Surprising nobody, this is the kind of person picked:
https://www.apnews.com/902193d81d0d4...dge-goes-viral
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  #57207  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:12 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
rapepublican
Please stop using 'words' like this. It is at best a taunt, meant to aggravate the other side, and at worst it trivializes the crimes of actual rapists and misrepresents those republicans who are not.
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  #57208  
Old 12-15-2017, 06:42 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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The president has banned the CDC from using 7 words in any official documents being prepared for next year's budget.
The banned words are:
  • Vulnerable
  • Entitlement
  • Diversity
  • Transgender
  • Fetus
  • Evidence-based
  • Science-based
That's... Very unsettling, to say the least.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...010_story.html
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  #57209  
Old 12-15-2017, 11:58 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The president has banned the CDC from using 7 words in any official documents being prepared for next year's budget.
The banned words are:
  • Vulnerable
  • Entitlement
  • Diversity
  • Transgender
  • Fetus
  • Evidence-based
  • Science-based
That's... Very unsettling, to say the least.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...010_story.html
Hey we can't let them be triggered by them scary words.
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  #57210  
Old 12-16-2017, 03:41 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Hey we can't let them be triggered by them scary words.
How bizarre. Look:

Quote:
In some instances, the analysts were given alternative phrases. Instead of "science-based" or "evidence-based," the suggested phrase is "CDC bases its recommendations on science in consideration with community standards and wishes," the person said
Is this some kind of party game? I try to describe the word without saying it, and you guess what I'm talking about?

(But seriously, the Taboo game would consider it cheating to use "science" in the above example.)
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  #57211  
Old 12-16-2017, 01:28 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The president has banned the CDC from using 7 words in any official documents being prepared for next year's budget.
The banned words are:
  • Vulnerable
  • Entitlement
  • Diversity
  • Transgender
  • Fetus
  • Evidence-based
  • Science-based
That's... Very unsettling, to say the least.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...010_story.html
This would be hilarious if it wasn’t reality.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #57212  
Old 12-16-2017, 02:34 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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It's not reality its America.
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  #57213  
Old 12-16-2017, 04:35 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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But I'm actually pretty decent at these games. Lemme try:
  • Particularly susceptible
  • Entitled claim
  • Variety
  • People with gender identity non-corresponding to their sex
  • Fetal one
  • In keeping with evidence
  • Scientific

Bam. Ready for the bonus round.
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  #57214  
Old 12-16-2017, 09:10 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
But I'm actually pretty decent at these games. Lemme try:
  • Particularly susceptible
  • Entitled claim
  • Variety
  • People with gender identity non-corresponding to their sex
  • Fetal one
  • In keeping with evidence
  • Scientific

Bam. Ready for the bonus round.
I mean... Yes?

Transgender(ed) is rude unless used as a descriptor. You refer to men and women as, well.. Men or women, regardless of what sex(gender. whatever) they would be referred to. You won't say "The gay people" when referring to a disease or health issue. Hell, you'd very rarely refer to it as homosexual, instead going for homosexuality. It's a thin line, but it's a line that needs to be straddled. The CDC itself said that the "ban" is being overblown.

Further, science based* would be deferred to ‘C.D.C. bases its recommendations on science in consideration with community standards and wishes.’’’ for a multitude of reasons.

Lets go with (I'll use the example again for the sake of being quick and dirty) transgendered folks. In reality, while the science supporting Trans as an actual thing exists, it's not really all that concrete. It's based on brain scans, pheromones and other factors. It's not common science. It's not even necessarily accepted science (Or, more accurately, real research into the subject is still new enough that while it may be accepted as currently understood, it shouldn't be taken as law), and this means that you want to codify how you say things.

Science says, at the moment, that sex is, for the most part, binary. I mean, intersex exists, but it's a mutation and definitely not the norm. By changing the language to include "Based on community standards" it allows an opening for non-scientifically backed, but pretty much scientifically accepted things like Transgenderism to be inserted without being inaccurate.

Entitlement, diversity and evidence based are also "problematic words" that would be better..ahh...substituted...for alternative words in the political climate.

Fetus should be ignored or avoided because it's not a real distinction. Taking from Wikipedia
Quote:
, In biological terms, however, prenatal development is a continuum, with no clear defining feature distinguishing an embryo from a fetus. A fetus is also characterized by the presence of all the major body organs, though they will not yet be fully developed and functional and some not yet situated in their final anatomical location.
Considering I've not seen the entirety of the memo, I can't say what the tone is, so this is all guessing, of course.

But, I mean, I'd be more willing to trust the CDC who outright said

Quote:
“The assertion that H.H.S. has ‘banned words’ is a complete mischaracterization of discussions regarding the budget formulation process,” an agency spokesman, Matt Lloyd, said in an email. “H.H.S. will continue to use the best scientific evidence available to improve the health of all Americans. H.H.S. also strongly encourages the use of outcome and evidence data in program evaluations and budget decisions.”
But by all means, I could very well be wrong. In all honesty, the whole thing should have been leaked if it was as bad as that. Unless we are going to say that someone could send the words, but not the rest of the memo, even if by typing it out, sending a picture, ect.

Or, we can just assume that everyone is evil and the world is falling apart.

Either way.
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  #57215  
Old 12-17-2017, 02:04 AM
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More bullshit Trump apologetics from a fake “free speech” advocate.
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  #57216  
Old 12-17-2017, 03:52 AM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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@Ruinshin it's the first step (well, not really the first, just the first in regards to the CDC) to establish a rule set more in line with hardcore rightwing thoughtmaterial. As real short version of this is: "It starts with "You can't use the word "homosexual" in an official document", and it ends with "We don't have gays in this country." ".

By removing words you're A giving people the hint that the government doesn't want you to think along their lines. And B you're forcing to look for alternatives if you do, which can and probably will lead to imprecise language and / or convenient, willful misinterpretation. Let's take the word transgender since it's the easiest example here.

Show of hands, who doesn't know what a transgender person is? You might not understand it (reasonable enough, education about it is a fairly new thing) entirely, you might not really know how to use the word grammatically, and you may find it icky. But generally we all have at the very least a basic understanding of "Dude's a lady" / "Lady's a dude".

Now, let's say the CDC can't use the word "transgender" in their next budget thingy. Okay, fine, looks innocent enough, what's the next best thing? Just call it transsexual. Well, probably - short, same context, most people know it. Seems innocent enough right? Except the term transsexual is and has been falling out of medical use because it suggests an old and outdated oppinion - that your gender has anything to do with your physical sex. (MAN explaining this is so much easier in english; german doesn't have different words for Sex and Gender...)
Except, it doesn't. Your gender is defined by your brain's gender. In the overwhelming majority of humans, your sex and gender align, so there's no problem. But when your brain has a different oppinion, shit gets real fam.
"So what's problematic about transsexual?" In itself nothing, as far as i'm concerned, but if you use it in an official governmenty document you invite all kinds of problems - let's say an old streight white rich Republican really, REALLY wants transgender rights out the window - he now has an attack point to undermine them. Give it a couple of years under this legislation and you'll probably see trans-people having to undergo Gender Reasignment Surgery (ever thought about why it's called that? It used to be mandatory for legal gender change) to legally change their gender. Which not everyone WANTS to do, is not covered by your insurance and is likely going to be harder to get ahold of in the long run. Which will result in less registered transgender citizens. And less medical coverage, if any. And before you know it Zar Trump proclaims "We don't have trannies in America".

If you think it's not going to be that bad, well, maybe. He's only got three more years, if you even have to wait that long, and the kind of slowburning dictatory bullshit Trump wants NOW takes a while to take hold (see his transgender-ban for the military which the law took a look at, laughed and said "ahahaha yeah no") And the next administration is going to have an easy time repealing all his shit.
But make no mistake, this is an attack. Basically on everyone. Which... you really shouldn't be surprised by at this point.
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  #57217  
Old 12-17-2017, 08:12 AM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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By removing words you're A giving people the hint that the government doesn't want you to think along their lines. And B you're forcing to look for alternatives if you do, which can and probably will lead to imprecise language and / or convenient, willful misinterpretation. Let's take the word transgender since it's the easiest example here.

Show of hands, who doesn't know what a transgender person is? You might not understand it (reasonable enough, education about it is a fairly new thing) entirely, you might not really know how to use the word grammatically, and you may find it icky. But generally we all have at the very least a basic understanding of "Dude's a lady" / "Lady's a dude".
I mean, Id argue large percentages dont know what trangender is. They confuse them with homosexual, transvestite, etc. Ive had this conversation a few times in hawaii.

On to the next step, and the thing I've got an issue with.

Those words aren't banned. The can be used in reports, in official documents, and in research papers. They are recommended to not use them in budget requests. A step beyond that..

There's no evidence it came from outside the CDC. The F.D.A recieved no such requests, former officials have said that while it's absurd, its not a ban. Or, in other words, It wasn't Trump. It was the CDC (Or possibly HHS. We cant seem to get an answer)

Its a recommendation on how to write requests for financial requests. The words aren't banned. There is no evidence it came from Trump. No other organization, health based or otherwise, has recieved similar instructions.

Its being overblown
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  #57218  
Old 12-17-2017, 01:27 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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You're becoming quite the anti-science authoritarian apologist, Ruin.

News came out recently that Mueller has millions of emails from the administration transition. The bad guys are already trying to call foul even though every time you access government computers, it tells you that you're subject to monitoring at all times and can have no expectation of privacy.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...robert-mueller
The backlash against this (and Mueller's investigation in general) leads me to believe there are a lot of juicy emails in there. It's also amusing that suddenly the bad guys care about how emails are obtained.

There's also a rumor going around that the president is going to fire Mueller on the 22nd of this month. Be ready.
https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller...events/search/
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbram...46451026608128
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  #57219  
Old 12-17-2017, 02:47 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
You're becoming quite the anti-science authoritarian apologist, Ruin.

News came out recently that Mueller has millions of emails from the administration transition. The bad guys are already trying to call foul even though every time you access government computers, it tells you that you're subject to monitoring at all times and can have no expectation of privacy.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...robert-mueller
The backlash against this (and Mueller's investigation in general) leads me to believe there are a lot of juicy emails in there. It's also amusing that suddenly the bad guys care about how emails are obtained.

There's also a rumor going around that the president is going to fire Mueller on the 22nd of this month. Be ready.
https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller...events/search/
https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbram...46451026608128
And you continue to think wster turns the frogs gay, my crackpot friend
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  #57220  
Old 12-17-2017, 03:48 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
And you continue to think wster turns the frogs gay, my crackpot friend
I'm not the one claiming that the investigation of the president and his administration's blatant crimes are a "deep state conspiracy."

Somebody found a fun FCC bot comment, by the way.
https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/filing/1051157755251
It's too bad the FCC won't release the data on where all these fake comments came from. They say it's to protect the privacy of the people who made the comments. You know, the comments we made with our full names and addresses.
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  #57221  
Old 12-17-2017, 04:48 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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I'm not the one claiming that the investigation of the president and his administration's blatant crimes are a "deep state conspiracy
No, you just think there have been blatant crimes, instead of stuff you don't like.
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  #57222  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:13 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
No, you just think there have been blatant crimes, instead of stuff you don't like.
You keep telling yourself that. I'll continue to make good on my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.
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  #57223  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:19 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
You keep telling yourself that. I'll continue to make good on my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.
Be sure to pay special attention to the sixth.

You seem to have a habit of ignoring it.
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Old 12-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Be sure to pay special attention to the sixth.

You seem to have a habit of ignoring it.
I'm well aware of it.
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  #57225  
Old 12-17-2017, 05:42 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Try forwarding it to the press.

Instead of circle jerking, they should call this shit out.

Instead, its allowed to go on. Like I said last time you brought this up, its enabled by a law that was passed under Obama. It needs to be challenged in order to be struck down
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