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Old 04-21-2012, 02:35 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default Orcish Culture and History

I feel like Orcs haven't been given enough background. Let me illustrate.

Sometimes, when I'm not a Warcraft fan, I'm a treky. As a Treky, early on, I didn't much care for Klingons. Eventually, however, as I watched more trek and saw them get fleshed out some more, I started to get more interrested. The bloodwine, the formality, the war stories, Kahless, the Singing. All of the mindset became easier to understand, and therefore, easier to like.

I see Orcs as comparable to Klingons as they both started as simply warriors and bad guys who were fleshed out into more honorable warriors as their franchises expanded. That said, Klingons got a lot more fleshed out.

I think Orcs would be more interesting if they gave them some more back story, some traditions, some mythology. As it is, I don't know that there's record of any individual orc more than a century before the Dark Portal Opened. I'd like to here about Orcs of old, there origin myths. The stories of the founders of clans. Lets see some orcish rituals. Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Draenei, Trolls, Goblins, and even Gnomes and Worgen have centuries more history than one of the principle races of Warcraft.

As I see it, by the end of MoP, the Orcs will be in a pretty low place, the lowest they've been since the post 2nd War era. The next expansion would be a good time to see where they go from there, and I hope they use that opportunity give these guys some more background.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:44 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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I want them to delve into the Blood River War. That'd be cool.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:56 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I wont compare them with any alien from Star Trek since i hate that show. However they remind me of Mongols, Goths, Huns, and other barbarian tribes from history,though i don't remember any demon corruption in history but oh well...
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:07 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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The comparison to Klingons is more apt than you may realize, as its almost a direct rip in many situations. Much of that may be attributable to Christie Golden, the author chiefly responsible for orcish backstory, also being a prominent Star Trek author.

Though I don’t think its fair to say we don’t have orcish traditions and mythology. Unlike the Klingons, the orcish faith isn’t deist and is instead nature and spirit based. And they have numerous traditions. Off the top of my head, the lok'vadnod for example.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:12 PM
Mshadowz Mshadowz is offline

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Aside from Archeology finds, there isn't a whole lot on the orcs before the rise of the Horde, although RotH did an amazing job fleshing out their culture and it's fall from grace.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:13 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I wont compare them with any alien from Star Trek since i hate that show.
We can't be friends anymore on account of your astonishingly poor taste.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:03 PM
Jiwat Jiwat is offline

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Star Trek is okay, though a bit long in the tooth, but the effort to make the universe seem real by making people with too much time create way too much ancillary information about everyone who has lived in it... *inhale* Is largely a complete waste of time and the textbook reason for why people make fun of Trekkies.

Since you can enjoy the movies and the like just the same without all that knowledge, the only purpose it serves is to satisfy the overly curious crowd who can't accept being told to not examine fiction too closely.

Last edited by Jiwat; 04-21-2012 at 04:06 PM..
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:10 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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We can't be friends anymore on account of your astonishingly poor taste.
Star Wars is better anyway.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:15 PM
Gurtogg_Bloodboil Gurtogg_Bloodboil is offline

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the only purpose it serves is to satisfy the overly curious crowd who can't accept being told to not examine fiction too closely.
Do you know what forum you're posting on?
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
We can't be friends anymore on account of your astonishingly poor taste.
It's okay if he only hates it because he only has seen the more recent stuff (ENT before season 4, the whole of Voyager and, of course, JJtrek) or the original series with the sometimes idiotic stories. Really, the best Star Trek was TNG and DS9 after growing their respective beards. After that Braga and Berman just turned everything into crap.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:16 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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I would rather they did this but with the Trolls. We know more about the Orcs past than most other races.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:17 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I would rather they did this but with the Trolls. We know more about the Orcs past than most other races.
Orc bias !
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:19 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by HerrRotalHenricsson View Post
It's okay if he only hates it because he only has seen the more recent stuff (ENT before season 4, the whole of Voyager and, of course, JJtrek) or the original series with the sometimes idiotic stories. Really, the best Star Trek was TNG and DS9 after growing their respective beards. After that Braga and Berman just turned everything into crap.
I liked Voyager and JJtrek.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
I would rather they did this but with the Trolls. We know more about the Orcs past than most other races.
I agree with you since there are races who are in more need of a background than say orcs, humans and, possibly, nightelves. It's still sad that even the races blizzards puts more focus on are basically unknowns to us.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:25 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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My thoughts exactly.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:24 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Ku'ja View Post
I would rather they did this but with the Trolls. We know more about the Orcs past than most other races.
We need more info on High/Blood Elven culture.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:26 PM
Jiwat Jiwat is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurtogg_Bloodboil View Post
Do you know what forum you're posting on?
Most of the story here follows the Chekov's Law that if something happens or is otherwise known, it is for a purpose that will be relevant later.

Star Trek is full of facts and figures that are completely irrelevant to the product but exist simply so that people can flaunt their knowledge and measure their fandom cock against other fans.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:48 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I would rather they did this but with the Trolls. We know more about the Orcs past than most other races.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. We know that thousands of years ago Trolls dominated the whole of Azeroth, muscleing out the Aqir, that they might be akin to elves (there is some controversy there), that their empire split into the Amani and Gerubashi and from there faded away in the face of Elven expansion. We know that after the Shattering the Gerubashi fell in with Hakkar the Soulflayer whilst the Amani Empire was crushed beneath the combined weight of the the Humans and High Elves. All this we know is well before the games.

Now, if you could tell me any details about what they orcs were doing even 100 years before RotH, I will happily concede that Trolls need a lore expansion more-so than Orcs (and by details I mean something other than assuming that the were doing the same things they were doing, say 10 years before RotH, or even in the early parts of RotH).
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:56 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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that they might be akin to elves (there is some controversy there)
Not might, they are
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:21 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Tbh more then anything I'd like to see more tauren lore. People always whine about draenai and worgen, sometimes about BEs or gnomes... but the tauren almost never get mentioned. Even though their lore atm is probably the most lackluster of all, they appear in a decent number in the world but all of their appearances are so terribly generic and lacking in meaningful lore. Their "major" lore is FUBAR and their background is disappointingly sketchy.

For the tribes!
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Tbh more then anything I'd like to see more tauren lore. People always whine about draenai and worgen, sometimes about BEs or gnomes... but the tauren almost never get mentioned. Even though their lore atm is probably the most lackluster of all, they appear in a decent number in the world but all of their appearances are so terribly generic and lacking in meaningful lore. Their "major" lore is FUBAR and their background is disappointingly sketchy.

For the tribes!
They appeared one day, did Earthmother stuff, got Old Godded, something with Cenarius, got attacked by centaurs, wandered a lot, and then met Thrall.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:35 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
Tbh more then anything I'd like to see more tauren lore. People always whine about draenai and worgen, sometimes about BEs or gnomes... but the tauren almost never get mentioned. Even though their lore atm is probably the most lackluster of all, they appear in a decent number in the world but all of their appearances are so terribly generic and lacking in meaningful lore. Their "major" lore is FUBAR and their background is disappointingly sketchy.

For the tribes!
But you can always feel their presence in the story either trough their gods or their mythology

Gnomes and Draenei just don't have the same stuff

Worgen and Blood elfs is more because their plotlines are frozen in time
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:37 PM
Ku'ja Ku'ja is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. We know that thousands of years ago Trolls dominated the whole of Azeroth, muscleing out the Aqir, that they might be akin to elves (there is some controversy there), that their empire split into the Amani and Gerubashi and from there faded away in the face of Elven expansion. We know that after the Shattering the Gerubashi fell in with Hakkar the Soulflayer whilst the Amani Empire was crushed beneath the combined weight of the the Humans and High Elves. All this we know is well before the games.

Now, if you could tell me any details about what they orcs were doing even 100 years before RotH, I will happily concede that Trolls need a lore expansion more-so than Orcs (and by details I mean something other than assuming that the were doing the same things they were doing, say 10 years before RotH, or even in the early parts of RotH).
We know a little bit of what happened but we know nothing of what actually took place and why they lost everything (just a outline of what happened). I mean they used to dominate Azeroth and now they are in small numbers and have been at war with each other. The Zandalari wanting to go back to the Trolls routes and form a new Empire is a perfect opportunity to give us another major power and to give us a backstory on the race as a whole.

There are still other races that would be better than the Orcs for us to learn more about like the Tauren, Draenei (the fact that they have been on other planets that have been taken over by the Burning Legion shows we know very little of them) and Dwarves.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:44 PM
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If you want to know more about orc culture and history, you are more than welcome to compile a thread analogous to the Seven Kingdoms thread. But since I have an obvious Horde bias for compiling the Seven Kingdoms and Gilneas threads, you may want to get one of our other fair and balanced posters - such as Millenia, Quirnheim, or Fojar - to do the Orc Clans: Culture and History thread.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:55 PM
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one of our other fair and balanced posters
Whaaat???
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