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View Poll Results: Who is the master race?
Boring Humans 13 13.54%
Monstrous Orcs 9 9.38%
Awesome Dwarves 14 14.58%
Aloof Elves 5 5.21%
Cunning Trolls 11 11.46%
Dapper Worgen 3 3.13%
Annoying Gnomes 2 2.08%
Stampeding Tauren 4 4.17%
Dead Undead 8 8.33%
Cuddly Pandaren 3 3.13%
Retconning Ereder--I Mean Draenei 10 10.42%
Asshole Elves 14 14.58%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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  #20001  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:47 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
No, I accept that they need mental help, and I'm being honest in my appraisal of the situation.

See, you're taking offense to the medical diagnosis. I take offense at the common ignorance around the fact that it is a medical issue, and a serious mental condition.

Sorry, but no doctor worth his salt should ever take a patient who wants to mutilate themselves because of a gender confusion issue. That's criminal.
And yet there's laws that exist that punish doctors who refuse to see or help people with diagnosed transgender issues.

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
While I know you were responding to Bolvar, and my reasons for disapproving of trannsexuals could not be more different than his, I must ask you (and everyone who is a proponent of transexuality) a simple question.

Why can't they be comfortable with who they are? Do they lack a sufficient coping mechanism? If so, would you not say that's a personality (or even mental) deficiency?

For any problem relating to any form of dismorphia that does not affect the subject's health, I've yet to see an explanation for why someone simply could not "deal with it". If they lack that ability, then radically altering the physical body seems more like treating a symptom rather than the cause.
Because who they are is not the same as who they see themselves to be.
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  #20002  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:48 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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That's so weird. My parents are open and very accepting people yet I turned out very conservative.
Though most people don't have a clue as I keep it to myself. You have no idea what secrets people tell you when you give off the impression that you're trustworthy, only because I don't talk crap about people and try not to smear myself in everyones faces.
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  #20003  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:51 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Slywyn View Post
Because who they are is not the same as who they see themselves to be.
Perception is subjective and, more importantly, ephemeral. What necessarily gives self-image primacy over physical form?
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  #20004  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:52 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Where did I suggest "rejecting" anybody as good practice?

Do you "reject" persons with cancer? Downs Syndrome? Parkinsons? Or do you offer them treatment?

Or, do you say, "I accept your cancer as who you really are" and blissfully ignore the matter entirely?
You might not have sad it, but the way you expressed your thoughts makes it seem as if you didn't mind rejection, much. At least that's the impression I got. If I was wrong, I'm sorry.
  #20005  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:52 PM
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News flash. Bolvar is the true arbiter of what and who everyone is. No matter what you feel you are, no matter what people who've spent a lot of time studying the subject say, only Bolvar can truly tell you that if you're not a good heterosexual, cisgendered protestant who either has a beard, shaves it with a lawnmower, or is a woman, you're just an attention whore. I mean, it's not like some people who are different are screwed up in the head because they fear what people like him will say about them, or infer about them, or do to them, right? Or even are just trying to understand why everyone else is so damn different to you, but all in the same way? Nope! All attention whores!

Also, all biology is meatstuff. That lump between you ears? Not biology. Whatever goes on in there is totally either manning up or attention whoring. Nope, absolutely no biology there. No way that anything genetic could alter the way you think. Nope, if you're not like Bolvar, you just want attention.
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  #20006  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
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No, I accept that they need mental help, and I'm being honest in my appraisal of the situation.
Your entire viewpoint seems to boil down to "They're different than me, therefore they are broken or sick".

I really want to know: As a cisgender individual, what makes you think you can tell the world what it means to be transgender?
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  #20007  
Old 11-27-2012, 05:55 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Perception is subjective and, more importantly, ephemeral. What necessarily gives self-image primacy over physical form?
Ask one of the people who suffer from any number of body-image disorders.

The most extreme that I know of is a certain disorder that essentially disconnects a body part from the person's brain. To them, that body part is alien, and often, the nervous connections to and from it do not match up with those in the rest of said person's body.

For whatever reason, I have no idea.

Some of them will go as far as having that bodypart surgically removed, and if that is not an option, or if they are refused, will do it themselves in order to remove the offending body part.
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  #20008  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:01 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Perception is subjective and, more importantly, ephemeral. What necessarily gives self-image primacy over physical form?
because society's projection shouldnt be your reflection?
  #20009  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:07 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Slywyn View Post
Ask one of the people who suffer from any number of body-image disorders.
I am. And you said you have "no idea". So... you haven't proven anything.

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
because society's projection shouldnt be your reflection?
The physical form isn't society's projection. To be a certain sex and see oneself as another sex is simply self deception. To see oneself as a certain gender and see oneself as another sex is irrelevant.
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  #20010  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:10 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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This is what I have to say about further continuing this conversation with people who either won't or don't want to understand:



Yes, I stole it from someone's sig. Ask me if I give a fuck.

Now I'm going to go and actually do something productive with my night like talk to my BF or try to beat a game.
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  #20011  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:10 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Omacron, I don't know whether to find your nihilistic materialism endearing or exasperating.
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  #20012  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:11 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I am. And you said you have "no idea". So... you haven't proven anything.



The physical form isn't society's projection. To be a certain sex and see oneself as another sex is simply self deception. To see oneself as a certain gender and see oneself as another sex is irrelevant.
Hey, I'm surprised at this scientific and rational person who has emerged from within Omacron's perverted robotic exterior.
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  #20013  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:13 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
Hey, I'm surprised at this scientific and rational person who has emerged from within Omacron's perverted robotic exterior.
The robotic part implies rationality.

The perverted part implies parties.
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  #20014  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:30 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
The physical form isn't society's projection. To be a certain sex and see oneself as another sex is simply self deception. To see oneself as a certain gender and see oneself as another sex is irrelevant.
No, but society expecting you to be some way instead of letting you be is (I'm talking about the persona and their body of course)
  #20015  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:35 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Society isn't expecting anything, though. Biological ontology is.
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  #20016  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:40 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Society isn't expecting anything, though. Biological ontology is.
Sometimes I wonder whether you really don't have feelings. Then, I remember that you're just practicing for your future life as a robot.
  #20017  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:46 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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Wait. Sly. You have confused me yet again on the subject of your gender/sexuality.


Please clarify?
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  #20018  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:49 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dithon1 View Post
Wait. Sly. You have confused me yet again on the subject of your gender/sexuality.


Please clarify?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slywyn View Post
Not sure I have.

I did mention somewhere that I'm MtF though.

BF is okay with that though so it works out.
Here you go.

Maybe the Sexual Orientation Thread shall get revived now.
  #20019  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:55 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dithon1 View Post
Wait. Sly. You have confused me yet again on the subject of your gender/sexuality.


Please clarify?
Nazja got it. I am MtF, and what I would describe as pansexual. I care less about what parts you have and more about what's in your head.
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  #20020  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:57 PM
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I think Dithon1 might have been ironically trying to spark the flame war up again?
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
  #20021  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
I think Dithon1 might have been ironically trying to spark the flame war up again?
If he is he gets the one free answer and then I'm not talking to him further tonight.
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  #20022  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:00 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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I think Dithon1 might have been ironically trying to spark the flame war up again?
He-who-is-not-remembered-by-others-besides-Nazja isn't like that.
  #20023  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:08 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Here is an interesting idea related to this thread, lets say we already have the tech which using genetically engineered viruses or nanites is capable of a complete sexual transition from one sex to another, literal cell by cell transformation right down to the last strand of DNA. To cut the scientific mumbo-jumbo, it turns a dude into a chick with a 100% accuracy, with all bits working and so on.

How do you think this would affect the issue of transgendered people? And how will it affect our notions of genders themselves?

I would say that in a way it has both a chance of streamlining the sexuality issues of today by using this procedure and neuro-psychological science to streamline any individual into either the male or female role. But also a chance to produce an even stranger collection of sexualities and lifestyles, with this latter outcome being more likely considering modern trends.

To be honest the thought of people spontaneously changing gender for kicks, a very real development in the future, just doesn't sit right with me on some primal level.
  #20024  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:27 PM
Slywyn Slywyn is offline

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I would venture a guess and say that such a thing happening would be a dream come true for most transgender people that I know.
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  #20025  
Old 11-27-2012, 07:37 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Sometimes I wonder whether you really don't have feelings. Then, I remember that you're just practicing for your future life as a robot.
I HAVE feelings, and I recognize their use in theory, but in practice my life does not currently require them.
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