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  #176  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:34 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Vandel's one of the good ones. I think. Gotta reread that book one of these days.
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Becoming the guardian must endow you in ways other than magical because Aegwynn's tits are nearly the size of her head.
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And Lordaeron

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  #177  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:54 AM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Vandel's one of the good ones. I think. Gotta reread that book one of these days.
Want my copy? My son found a black crayon and decided to decorate.
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  #178  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:38 AM
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Want my copy? My son found a black crayon and decided to decorate.
Sounds like Illidan has another little fanboy .
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Not to sound mysogonystic, but I'd smash Natalie Dormer like it was the last time my cock would ever work.
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Becoming the guardian must endow you in ways other than magical because Aegwynn's tits are nearly the size of her head.
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And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
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  #179  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:49 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Sounds like Illidan has another little fanboy .
He is a hero who will be worshiped by ALL and those who oppose him will suffer in their foolishness and failure to recognize his greatness and power!
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  #180  
Old 02-05-2017, 03:35 AM
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He is a hero who will be worshiped by ALL and those who oppose him will suffer in their foolishness and failure to recognize his greatness and power!
Yes mommy.
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Not to sound mysogonystic, but I'd smash Natalie Dormer like it was the last time my cock would ever work.
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Becoming the guardian must endow you in ways other than magical because Aegwynn's tits are nearly the size of her head.
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And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
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  #181  
Old 02-05-2017, 04:05 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Vandel's one of the good ones. I think. Gotta reread that book one of these days.
Correct.

Vandel was one of the better things about that book.
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  #182  
Old 02-10-2017, 08:57 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Random thought: if Illidan had to sacrifice Tyrande to completely and utterly kill KJ, do you think he would?
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  #183  
Old 02-10-2017, 09:00 PM
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Random thought: if Illidan had to sacrifice Tyrande to completely and utterly kill KJ, do you think he would?
Good question.
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  #184  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:31 PM
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No because that would mean he'd have to give up something he actually values.
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  #185  
Old 02-11-2017, 01:04 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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I think he would go full Shakespeare and suicide afterwards.
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  #186  
Old 02-11-2017, 01:17 AM
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Random thought: if Illidan had to sacrifice Tyrande to completely and utterly kill KJ, do you think he would?
Only IF tyrande pulled a "if you ever loved me"
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  #187  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:45 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Random thought: if Illidan had to sacrifice Tyrande to completely and utterly kill KJ, do you think he would?
The two ways that this could play out both present some narratively interesting possibilities, but I feel like both cases would feel like a step too far for Blizzard, so I don't think they'd even choose to present the possibility much less act on it.

But setting that aside, I feel like the most likely answer is no, Illidan wouldn't sacrifice Tyrande. If KJ used Tyrande as a human shield and even Tyrande is sitting there saying "kill me and you save everyone" then I feel like Illidan's response to that is going to be "killing you means all of this was for nothing". There's a couple ways to read that:
  • Illidan's unrequited love for Tyrande is his redeeming quality and is the one line he won't cross when it comes to his pursuit of power. It's probably one of the only properties of an Illidan redemption narrative that I'd be okay with, but stay with me here.
  • Illidan's selfish insistence that Tyrande is more important than literally every other living being in reality, and SPECIFICALLY because he needs the validation of showing her what she's missing by choosing Furion over him, is monumentally infuriating.

Either of these two interpretations does the same thing: fetishizing Tyrande into a prize in a conflict between two dudes. It just completely deletes any agency she has as a character, because apparently she only exists to gratify one of two Stormrage brothers.

The other option is that Illidan kills Tyrande and saves the universe, but then decides that after saving the universe, he no longer has any place in it. This has echoes of the same problems as the first option, because it means that without Tyrande's infinitesimally small possibility of choosing Illidan of Malfurion, Illidan lacks the will to live, and indeed because he himself killed her, has only himself to blame for all of it.

This either sets up Illidan to find a reason to live later on (and who wants to read a story about How the Demon Hunter Got His Groove Back?) or, as stated, he just decides to kill himself because he can't live unless he's living on the hope of Tyrande "coming to her senses" about him. That's both immensely dark and offensively objectifying.

So yeah, I think it's a good thought experiment but I don't see Blizzard going that route since it doesn't appear to go anywhere good.
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  #188  
Old 02-11-2017, 05:57 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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Eh, Tyrande's been put on the back-burner since Malfurion entered the picture. ALP didn't do much to help her character at all and while the Insurrection questline has her in action and appearing as less impatient, her brashness and rudeness when you have to be a bad enough dude to rescue Malfurion put another negative mark on her in my eyes.

That being said, Illidan does view Tyrande as an object. I think Blizzard could pull off having him see her as a prize to be won without objectifying her through their own writing. Tyrande, of course, would be pissed off, as she should be, and maybe Illidan would finally be able to see that yes, the problem is him, not the fact that she's into tree-huggers with beards.

Well, okay, maybe that last bit plays a small part, but I digress.

It takes a good writer to pull that off well. Maybe we'll see it, but most likely not. It's a shame, because I always imagine KJ having a flare for the dramatic ala Robot Devil.
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  #189  
Old 02-11-2017, 07:41 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Look Shekinah, i don't wanna insult you but write something that COULD be percieved as Tyrande shade again and i will :3 Illidan was a mistake. HotS developers know it and if we're lucky he'll die again. Deal with it
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  #190  
Old 02-11-2017, 09:10 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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look shekinah, i don't wanna insult you but write something that could be percieved as tyrande shade again and i will :3 illidan was a mistake. Hots developers know it and if we're lucky he'll die again. Deal with it
ymmv
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  #191  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:31 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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No it doesn't. Goddess bless.
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  #192  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:44 AM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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ALP didn't do much to help her character at all and while the Insurrection questline has her in action and appearing as less impatient, her brashness and rudeness when you have to be a bad enough dude to rescue Malfurion put another negative mark on her in my eyes.
She takes charge through that whole questline, though.

And honestly... I think that question is really hard to answer because Illidan is wildly, monstrously inconsistent.

TFT Illidan? Wouldn't do it, no way. A much more interesting question is... would Illidan give up magic to save Tyrande's life?

And actually I think tFT answers that one. He would.
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  #193  
Old 02-12-2017, 05:11 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I honestly think Tyrande was good in Legion. She's actively fighting to save her home and he loved one. It's not the prince going to save the princess in the tower, it's the opposite. And she, at one point, even decides to leave him in Xavius's grasp to go and save her temple from Ysera.

I also imagine that we were only able to slay Ysera because we were on Elune's sacred ground with Elune's High Priestess.
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  #194  
Old 02-12-2017, 08:06 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shekinah View Post
Eh, Tyrande's been put on the back-burner since Malfurion entered the picture. ALP didn't do much to help her character at all and while the Insurrection questline has her in action and appearing as less impatient, her brashness and rudeness when you have to be a bad enough dude to rescue Malfurion put another negative mark on her in my eyes.

That being said, Illidan does view Tyrande as an object. I think Blizzard could pull off having him see her as a prize to be won without objectifying her through their own writing. Tyrande, of course, would be pissed off, as she should be, and maybe Illidan would finally be able to see that yes, the problem is him, not the fact that she's into tree-huggers with beards.

Well, okay, maybe that last bit plays a small part, but I digress.

It takes a good writer to pull that off well. Maybe we'll see it, but most likely not. It's a shame, because I always imagine KJ having a flare for the dramatic ala Robot Devil.
I think you're right that it takes a good writer to pull off something with that much nuance, but look at the whole project of Legion: this is Blizzard trying to burnish the image of Illidan, giving him a "redemption arc" without actually turning him away from the anti-hero qualities that everyone else is in love with. It feels like a pretty awkward turn to build that to a climax where Illidan, the quintessential antihero of Warcraft, is placed in a typical heroic conflict scenario (villain forces hero to choose between love and victory) and then have Illidan suddenly do the predictable hero thing of choosing love, especially when we know Tyrande is never going to change her mind about him.

I feel like it's one thing to have this story come across well, but when you have to tell that story through the medium of WoW, through the vision of the player character as a passive observer, with constrained dialogue and the requirement that it's got to get translated into a dozen languages... that takes it all beyond just needing a talented writer and instead needing a miracle.

Could you do it in a cinematic? That eliminates the player character constraint, and it lets more body language (which is largely universal) communicate nuance rather than dialogue... and, well, the Val'sharah questing cinematics that cover the corruption and death of Ysera show that you can communicate a lot without any dialogue at all.

Man, I don't know.
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