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  #4201  
Old 02-24-2018, 09:18 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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I think it's pretty reasonable that Quel'Thalas could supply by ship both Revantusk and any Horde bases on the eastern coast of Arathi.
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  #4202  
Old 02-24-2018, 10:21 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
Incidentally, looking at Reclaimed Lordaeron in the Alpha, I'm not the only one who has noticed that once the Alliance retakes the city the sun returns. Combined with the large amount of Forsaken plague spreaders stationed in the ruins, it makes me wonder if the Forsaken have actually been keeping Tirisfal plagued all this time, Scourge Cauldron style?
Got a link?

Also don't forget the War3 Undead construction logic, with the blighted ground.
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  #4203  
Old 02-24-2018, 11:31 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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actually sylvanas evacuates the forsaken to kalimdor. the forces of the horde as a whole continue to fight in lordaeron, more the leaders of arathi warfront are lady liadrin, Eitrigg and rokhan
For one, I'd like to know what confirmation you are citing in saying that Sylvanas evacuates "the forsaken" off of the continent. The wording implies a mass migration that I haven't seen evidence for.

That said, that doesn't matter to me. The only zone that is confirmed to either be destroyed or be taken by the Alliance right now is Tirisfal. Just as the only zone that is confirmed to be destroyed by the Horde is Teldrassil. Fojar's points on logistics are also worth considering.
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  #4204  
Old 02-25-2018, 01:57 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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Got a link?

Also don't forget the War3 Undead construction logic, with the blighted ground.


It's a completly different skybox. (They also updated the wall textures of the Capital City, but I think that was already mentioned.)
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  #4205  
Old 02-25-2018, 04:23 AM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Logistics in WoW are non-existant so I don't know why people still bother trying to hash it out.

Just like how Portals to Undercity spell zero inclinations to the Handling of the Narrative of Undercity's reclaimation. It's a Gaming conveneince
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  #4206  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:44 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Logistics in WoW are non-existant so I don't know why people still bother trying to hash it out.

Just like how Portals to Undercity spell zero inclinations to the Handling of the Narrative of Undercity's reclaimation. It's a Gaming conveneince
Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about

Anyway, just looking at geography, the fact of the matter is that retaking Capital City is an incredibly decisive Alliance victory that has ramifications throughout the Eastern Kingdoms, one of which would be an end to any practical ambition by the Horde to capture large amounts of territory on the continent.

Even going exclusively by what we know for sure right now, we know that the Horde no longer controls Undercity and has been pushed out of Tirisfal Glades. We also know that the Alliance has retaken and fortified Stromgarde Keep, and since one of the Horde's Warfront objectives is to capture Stromgarde Keep in order to use its harbor to attack Gilneas, we know that the Alliance controls Gilneas as well.

Right off the bat, Horde control of Silverpine, Andorhal, and Hillsbrad would collapse almost immediately. While a few holdouts might be able to remain, especially if they're undead and have fewer resupply needs, the fact is that these three regions are now locked into a three-front conflict from the North, Southwest, and Southeast with no hope of reinforcement. This constitutes the removal of any effective Horde presence in Western Lordaeron.

And with that presence gone, the Horde also loses its only easy method of access to the Eastern Kingdoms from the Great Sea. Its only other major port on the Western coast is all the way south at Grom'Gol Base Camp in Stranglethorn, which is highly indefensible considering the coastal geography and its proximity to Stormwind.

This means that any Horde vessels traveling to the Eastern Kingdoms would likely need to dock at Silvermoon, which would require them to either pass through a situation of Alliance naval dominance off the western coast or go west from Kalimdor and across the forbidding sea. This is more feasible, but it doesn't really help much aside from reinforcing Silvermoon, because the only major EK ports on the Forbidden Sea aside from Silvermoon are Scarlet Harbor, which is likely controlled by the Argents, or Highbank/Dragonmaw Port in the Twilight Highlands. Revantusk Village has a dock but not one anywhere big enough to sustain major offensive operations in Lordaeron, and Fuselight-by-the-Sea is neutral and in a poor strategic location anyway.

So the big question here is what the status of Dragonmaw Port is; based on what happened with the Dragonmaw in MoP and WoD, it's probably not in great shape, but even if you're generous and assume that the Horde can both take Dragonmaw Port AND neutralize Highbank, any force that lands in Twilight Highlands would still be boxed in by Grim Batol and the Khaz Modan mountainranges more generally.

Even if they somehow, through an Anduin-esque miracle, managed to capture Stromgarde, then what? Use the harbor to attack Gilneas? While the Alliance controls Baradin Bay? And try to maintain supply lines going from Revantusk right down the middle of Alliance dominated territory?

The reason why so much of the Horde is defending Undercity is because the Horde, if it wants to retain a significant presence in the Eastern Kingdoms, can not afford to lose it under any circumstances. And they did. The war in the Eastern Kingdoms is already over by the time the expansion starts and the Horde's insistence on trying to capture Arathi is Sylvanas meaninglessly throwing away Horde lives (big shock)

anyway that was my strategic treatise on the military situation in the video game where zombie nazis and their green alien allies from across the ocean fight gun-using tolkien knockoffs using blimps
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  #4207  
Old 02-25-2018, 06:46 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Did Blizzard forget to include this quest in the Void Elf questline?

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=48489/the-spires-of-home

Also I think I've found one of the pre-expansion event quests

http://wowhead.com/quest=50476/the-warchief-awaits
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  #4208  
Old 02-25-2018, 07:13 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Did Blizzard forget to include this quest in the Void Elf questline?

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=48489/the-spires-of-home
This reminds me of an interview where they said Alliance players would see why the nightborne joined the Horde firsthand, probably referencing this before cutting it for whatever reason.


Also, bad news about the Zandalari paladins. The order ceases to exist after Rezan dies during Zuldazar's quests and they all lose their ability to use the Light except for a few select individuals who are "suspect."

This raises some very odd questions given Talanji is a priest who says she also gets her powers from Rezan but is unaffected. Then again I guess priests might be loyal to more than one loa?

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  #4209  
Old 02-26-2018, 04:42 AM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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This reminds me of an interview where they said Alliance players would see why the nightborne joined the Horde firsthand, probably referencing this before cutting it for whatever reason.


Also, bad news about the Zandalari paladins. The order ceases to exist after Rezan dies during Zuldazar's quests and they all lose their ability to use the Light except for a few select individuals who are "suspect."

This races some very odd questions given Talanji is a priest who says she also gets her powers from Rezan but is unaffected. Then again I guess priests might be loyal to more than one loa?
So.

Quest line to re-get the light for the trolls inc?
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  #4210  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:18 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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@Fojar

The Alliance has controlled Gilneas since the end of the Forsaken Cataclysm questline. The fact that they have it and that the Horde is wanting to attack it doesn't imply other offensives. I also don't see where you get that Andorhal is falling. The Alliance would have to not simply push the Forsaken to the Bulwark after their forces had been depleted at the Undercity, but past it - I question their ability to do that given its defensive features. Andorhal itself is a logical fallback city for the Forsaken, and a logistical necessity for being able to even supply an attack in the Arathi Highlands. The same can be said about Hillsbrad Foothills.

The Wildhammer dwarves can and probably will threaten this system, but the geography they're coming up against is a mountain range with a pass into Hillsbrad that is going to bottleneck anyone who tries to pass through it. That leaves them safe, but also only with the ability to harass supply lines from the air. Could they do it in the numbers that would make a difference? I have my doubts about that.

Silverpine is a lot more precarious, but as I mentioned, the Alliance had Gilneas at the start of this conflict. Having Gilneas doesn't imply an offensive in neighboring Silverpine. There's also no reason for one so long as the Alliance maintains control of the seas in the region, and so long as other objectives, like Stromgarde, have a greater need for the resources that would be spent trying to purge holdouts from a mountainous valley. Gilneas would want to secure Shadowfang keep though if they want to really lock down their border.
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  #4211  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:39 AM
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Small 7.3.5 details that I only found now:

- Darnassus does not appear as a Capital in the World Map (if you check the full Azeroth map, capital cities are marked by an Alliance symbol. Darnassus is not one of them). I presume that Horde-side Undercity is also not marked.

- While the boat from Stormwind->Teldrassil still docks at Ruth'teran village, the map while traveling actually shows the route ending in Southshore, more or less where the Ruins of Auberdine are.

Quote:
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Did Blizzard forget to include this quest in the Void Elf questline?

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=48489/the-spires-of-home
Blizzard probably planned on Alliance also seeing Alleria at the Sunwell, but gave up because they were on a hurry to get things ready for 7.3.5

I imagine that the quest would be to recruit the blood elves, only for them to reject Alleria, then we'd proceed to Ghostlands.

It would make more sense from Alliance PoV to see the reason why Umbric was exiled, and to know Durzaam before he suddenly appears out of nowhere in Telogrus.

In current implementation, only way for an Alliance player to know the whole story is to unlock the nightborne Horde-side.
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  #4212  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:04 AM
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I've been watching a playthrough of Zuldazar and I love the zone, but I don't understand why people said that Zul was working with N'zoth, his main goal in Zuldazar is to resurrect Dazar, the first king of Zandalar, something that I find...interesting, there is A LOT of emphasis in undeath/spirits stuff this expansion, It feels like they are planning a Shadowlands expansion after BfA.

Here is Dazar's model
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/702614.jpg

Zul is just fantastic, you can feel that he knows much more than what it looks like, and Rastakhan doesn't die for now. There is a really interesting quest where you read 3 scrolls from Zul to his followers:

-He saw how the Drakari absorbed the Loa in Zul'Drak using nearly forgotten rituals, and I suppose that he learned those rituals because Yazma absorbs Shadra during the questing.

-When he resurrected Lei Shen in Pandaria he learned a spell to resurrect ancient kings, that's how he is able to resurrect Dazar apparently.

-In the third scroll, he says that Rastakhan is making the Zandalar weak and that's why he wants to resurrect Dazar, something that I find weird, I think it's obvious that he has a bigger endgame, but why the hell would he resurrect Dazar.

All this focus on death is really interesting, I wonder if it was Bwomsandi who told Voljin to choose Sylvanas and if it did it because she is undead and something big is coming from the Shadowlands...
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  #4213  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:12 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I've been watching a playthrough of Zuldazar and I love the zone, but I don't understand why people said that Zul was working with N'zoth, his main goal in Zuldazar is to resurrect Dazar, the first king of Zandalar, something that I find...interesting, there is A LOT of emphasis in undeath/spirits stuff this expansion, It feels like they are planning a Shadowlands expansion after BfA.

Here is Dazar's model
http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/702614.jpg

Zul is just fantastic, you can feel that he knows much more than what it looks like, and Rastakhan doesn't die for now. There is a really interesting quest where you read 3 scrolls from Zul to his followers:

-He saw how the Drakari absorbed the Loa in Zul'Drak using nearly forgotten rituals, and I suppose that he learned those rituals because Yazma absorbs Shadra during the questing.

-When he resurrected Lei Shen in Pandaria he learned a spell to resurrect ancient kings, that's how he is able to resurrect Dazar apparently.

-In the third scroll, he says that Rastakhan is making the Zandalar weak and that's why he wants to resurrect Dazar, something that I find weird, I think it's obvious that he has a bigger endgame, but why the hell would he resurrect Dazar.

All this focus on death is really interesting, I wonder if it was Bwomsandi who told Voljin to choose Sylvanas and if it did it because she is undead and something big is coming from the Shadowlands...
Maybe Dazar was the best king? Given their obsession with reliving the glory days.
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  #4214  
Old 02-26-2018, 08:53 AM
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Not N'Zoth, G'huun. In some quests after Zul starts his coup, his followers shout "Bow to G'huun!" and channel blood magic into other trolls trying to convert them. Which is frankly just unnecessary, he has perfectly valid motivations and plans without that, they didn't need to slap an Old God on him at all.
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  #4215  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:27 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Also I think I've found one of the pre-expansion event quests

http://wowhead.com/quest=50476/the-warchief-awaits
Late random thought: now I imagine an Alliance-side version in which you get disguised as an orc and infiltrate Orgrimmar... only to find nightborne patrols. "An illusion? What are you hiding?"

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Not N'Zoth, G'huun. In some quests after Zul starts his coup, his followers shout "Bow to G'huun!" and channel blood magic into other trolls trying to convert them. Which is frankly just unnecessary, he has perfectly valid motivations and plans without that, they didn't need to slap an Old God on him at all.
Blizzard writing at its finest. No subtlety. Zul could very well want to resurrect Dazar to fight G'huun's minions, but no! Let's just turn him into corruption case #13233445.
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  #4216  
Old 02-26-2018, 09:45 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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The thing is he doesn't even act corrupted and except for one or two quests G'huun isn't mentioned at all, so it really feels like Blizz went "oops we made a villain unconnected to Old Gods can't have that" and so added that stuff in at the last minute.
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  #4217  
Old 02-26-2018, 10:04 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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The thing is he doesn't even act corrupted and except for one or two quests G'huun isn't mentioned at all, so it really feels like Blizz went "oops we made a villain unconnected to Old Gods can't have that" and so added that stuff in at the last minute.
Everything is connected to Old Gods.
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Yeah but where would this forum be if not for people speculating endlessly about things Blizzard doesn't give a shit about
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #4218  
Old 02-26-2018, 10:49 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Time to share my findings:

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=47228/xibalan-ecology

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=47329/t...watcher-legacy

These two mention nightborne

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=50912/done-dirt-cheap

HvA quest

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=50542/a...ve-opportunity

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49897/making-mysteries

Gnome lore


http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49980/c...ment-procedure
http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49775/key-to-the-brig
http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49955/n...for-this-plane
http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49985/r...o-gloom-hollow

Old god G'huun behind destruction of containment structure. Commanding blood trolls to destroy final one in location, Zuldazar. Titan Keeper Hezrel must aid in destruction of blood trolls. Cannot allow G'huun to be freed. Must leave interior of Atul'nazman. Meet Titan Keeper Hezrel outside of temple, will help return to Gloom Hollow.


http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49985/r...o-gloom-hollow
http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49956/void-is-prohibited

Old god mentions

http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=131515/grand-mada-ateena

Grand Mother Athena: the Red Queen?

http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=131253/titan-keeper-hezrel

Questgiver who's involved in a bunch of void and old god quests in Nazmir.

Have Titan Keeper Hezrel apply Synthetic Essence to allow safe passage past undead.



Synthetic G'huun essence received
Description
Analysis of blood-infused bones complete. Will be able to create synthetic essence similar to G'huun. Will take a moment to apply essence, allow you to walk past undead without combat. Must hurry. More forces of G'huun are around temple. Must get inside to reactivate containment protocols.


http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49952/the-essence-of-ghuun

Synthetic Old God confirmed

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49957/protocol-recovery

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=49955/n...for-this-plane

Creature exists between this plane and void.


http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=51088/heart-of-darkness

Brann is no longer neutral

http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=46729/l...therines-court

We'll be on our way back to Lordaeron in no time
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  #4219  
Old 02-26-2018, 11:05 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Small 7.3.5 details that I only found now:

- Darnassus does not appear as a Capital in the World Map (if you check the full Azeroth map, capital cities are marked by an Alliance symbol. Darnassus is not one of them). I presume that Horde-side Undercity is also not marked.

- While the boat from Stormwind->Teldrassil still docks at Ruth'teran village, the map while traveling actually shows the route ending in Southshore, more or less where the Ruins of Auberdine are.


Blizzard probably planned on Alliance also seeing Alleria at the Sunwell, but gave up because they were on a hurry to get things ready for 7.3.5

I imagine that the quest would be to recruit the blood elves, only for them to reject Alleria, then we'd proceed to Ghostlands.

It would make more sense from Alliance PoV to see the reason why Umbric was exiled, and to know Durzaam before he suddenly appears out of nowhere in Telogrus.

In current implementation, only way for an Alliance player to know the whole story is to unlock the nightborne Horde-side.
The boat to Darnassus has shown the path ending in the Ruins of Auberdine ever since Cata as they never updated the path and Darnassus shows an icon just fine as well.

Last edited by Leviathon; 02-26-2018 at 11:07 AM..
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  #4220  
Old 02-26-2018, 12:12 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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The boat to Darnassus has shown the path ending in the Ruins of Auberdine ever since Cata as they never updated the path and Darnassus shows an icon just fine as well.
Are you sure? I seem to remember it showing the boat going to Ruth'teran at least since I started playing (4.3).

Edit:
Found old screen caps in the 'net. This is the route circa MoP.


The route starts out in the small Rut'theran village island south of Teldrassil (thought the red dot hides it, so it appears to to start in the middle of the sea).

Since 7.3.5, however, the path clearly starts way more south and next to the continent, around the ruins of Auberdine. It was changed on purpose.

I'd like to find proof that it still started out in Rut'theran in 7.X, but this is not the kind of screenshot people usually make.


Edit 2:
Here's the current route shown.
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  #4221  
Old 02-26-2018, 12:24 PM
Insularius Insularius is offline

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The Dark Trolls did not go extinct afterall.

http://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screen...mal/707591.jpg
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  #4222  
Old 02-26-2018, 01:09 PM
engal engal is offline

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Originally Posted by Hipnos View Post
All this focus on death is really interesting, I wonder if it was Bwomsandi who told Voljin to choose Sylvanas and if it did it because she is undead and something big is coming from the Shadowlands...
I'm betting that the Tower of Sacrifices is in the shadowlands and that Old Gods minions are sacrificing lots of souls there to empower whatever end game goals fit the Old Gods, and that the war coming will give more souls and blood for the tower of sacrifices and in the end it'll bite us in the a**
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:38 PM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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The thing is he doesn't even act corrupted
Why should anyone act corrupted? That's the truly shit writing. Zul is morally corrupt by any rational measure, but terrible writing has made corruption all about spewing nonsense syllables and eye cancer. Can't someone just be seduced by promises of power and greatness anymore? Do they need to be a brain-damaged mindslave?

Can't a God merely promise salvation for the Troll race? That's all Hakkar needed to do for his followers.

Last edited by Krakhed; 02-26-2018 at 01:44 PM..
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  #4224  
Old 02-26-2018, 01:42 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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I'm betting that the Tower of Sacrifices is in the shadowlands and that Old Gods minions are sacrificing lots of souls there to empower whatever end game goals fit the Old Gods, and that the war coming will give more souls and blood for the tower of sacrifices and in the end it'll bite us in the a**
One detail of note in regards to that is that Slaghammer's Notes: Xala'tath, the Blade of the Black Empire (one of three books inspected by priests during one part of the Xal'atath acquisition quest) mentions "massive sacrifices" when describing the Black Empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaghammer's Notes: Xala'tath, the Blade of the Black Empire
The Blade is called Xala'tath[sic]. It has come from an age before most of our races existed. We only have the scrawlings of previous holders to go from. While it is mostly ravings of those that lacked the will to wield the Blade, many of them say the same things.

They speak of the Black Empire, of a time when our true masters ruled all of Azeroth. Massive sacrifices, living buildings filled with void energies. Sometimes we can hear the Shadow Deacon speaking to... someone in his tent. He has mentioned the glory of the Black Empire as well.
Also, I feel the need to point out Xal'atath actually says "the towers of sacrifice in Ny'alotha", plural, not "Tower of Sacrifices".
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Old 02-26-2018, 01:44 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz;1617239
Old god mentions

[url
http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=131515/grand-mada-ateena[/url]

Grand Mother Athena: the Red Queen?

http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=131253/titan-keeper-hezrel
no, the red queen has a titanforged model. Besides, as a RE movie reference she's probably Uldir computer system.
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