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  #26  
Old 05-17-2018, 04:41 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
You mean my posts over the past decade
No, probably referring to Split Family reunions between North and South Korea.

But hey, Fojar you were right about Lordaeronian refugees in Stormwind. I was wrong about that. But hey, confirmed Forsaken are people too.

I hope you’re right about Alliance Light oriented undead. Made a thread about it, link is in a previous post.

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  #27  
Old 05-19-2018, 09:48 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Man, I really hope the Undead not just killing all those Humans when they "reunite" is from the Light or whatever making them behave and not that they were totally not dangerous to Humans all along with only those meanies in the Alliance making non-enthralled Undead go on their monthly rampages. But that's too much to expect from current Blizzard surely.

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  #28  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:51 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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What? You be goin mad, mon!
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:46 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Im just trying to imagine the sylvanas fanboy shitstorm if it had been Humans trying to live in Lordaeron under the Forsaken and Genn killed them.

I mean, Sylvanas went full mustache twirling villain here, but people are still spouting shades of grey.

Also, there was peace after the Stormheim thing, so I guess its not the start of the war afterall. What a shocker!
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #30  
Old 05-20-2018, 06:37 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Originally Posted by Crazyterran View Post
Im just trying to imagine the sylvanas fanboy shitstorm if it had been Humans trying to live in Lordaeron under the Forsaken and Genn killed them.

I mean, Sylvanas went full mustache twirling villain here, but people are still spouting shades of grey.

Also, there was peace after the Stormheim thing, so I guess its not the start of the war afterall. What a shocker!
Eh, it was Lawful evil. A ruthless and brutal action that is well within her rights as a ruler, as Andy points out. It’s a legitimate action that has earned the hatred of Anduin of all people. It is likely to give her some problems as well, but we’ll see.

Anduin bringing Calia was tremendously stupid though.
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  #31  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:01 PM
spidey1980 spidey1980 is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
It seems like there's a very real possibility Calia is Taelia's mom, and I don't know how I feel about that. I like her a lot, I thought Bolvar was fine, but Bolvar and Calia?
Oh dear Lord, now I'm remembering some "leaks" more than half a year ago which sugested that the Lich King would eventually side with the Alliance (and the Red Dragonflight with the Horde).
Didn't pay much attention to them for obvious reasons, but if Bolvar and Calia really were a thing, the Alliance part would suddenly make sense.
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  #32  
Old 05-21-2018, 12:19 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Oh dear Lord, now I'm remembering some "leaks" more than half a year ago which sugested that the Lich King would eventually side with the Alliance (and the Red Dragonflight with the Horde).
Didn't pay much attention to them for obvious reasons, but if Bolvar and Calia really were a thing, the Alliance part would suddenly make sense.
I thought I heard it would be the Red Dragonflight will side with the Alliance.
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  #33  
Old 05-21-2018, 06:24 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Oh dear Lord, now I'm remembering some "leaks" more than half a year ago which sugested that the Lich King would eventually side with the Alliance (and the Red Dragonflight with the Horde).
Didn't pay much attention to them for obvious reasons, but if Bolvar and Calia really were a thing, the Alliance part would suddenly make sense.
I might vaguely remember this....... but not really.

Whether or not Calia and Bolvar were a thing, I could see Taelia bringing him in from the Cold. I could see Calia being involved. Does anybody remember the “Vision of the Forlorn”?
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  #34  
Old 05-21-2018, 10:06 AM
Melorandor Melorandor is offline

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Cannot see in a million lifetimes, Alexstrasza and the Reds siding with the Horde. Especially of all - SYLVANAS' Horde.

I believe the "leak" was, Bolvar would side with the Horde and Sylvanas to try and find a more efficient way to enter the Shadowlands; as it is becoming perhaps evident that Bolvar's control over the Scourge is weakening. Be it, whatever Bolvar's or Sylvanas' true intentions of getting to the Shadowlands is, it could be mutually beneficial for both parties. I am probably pulling from Pyromancer's theory though.

Also, Bolvar and Alex have that little fiasco from the DK class mount questline. Besides the fact that, Alex is responsible for keeping Bolvar alive.
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  #35  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:01 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Originally Posted by Melorandor View Post
Cannot see in a million lifetimes, Alexstrasza and the Reds siding with the Horde. Especially of all - SYLVANAS' Horde.

I believe the "leak" was, Bolvar would side with the Horde and Sylvanas to try and find a more efficient way to enter the Shadowlands; as it is becoming perhaps evident that Bolvar's control over the Scourge is weakening. Be it, whatever Bolvar's or Sylvanas' true intentions of getting to the Shadowlands is, it could be mutually beneficial for both parties. I am probably pulling from Pyromancer's theory though.

Also, Bolvar and Alex have that little fiasco from the DK class mount questline. Besides the fact that, Alex is responsible for keeping Bolvar alive.
The San'layn could be the last intelligent members of the Scourge still loyal to Bolvar and agree with his plan to contain the undead to Northrend. Perhaps Calia raising dead heroes as lightforged undead also ticks him off, since the Scourge being defeatedwas supposed to stop things like that. (Shh, nevermind Sylvanas, clearly.)
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So many deluded people think their rotting Waifuchief cares for them and their faction, when every scrap of internalized narrative has made it clear for years that to Sylvanas, the entirety of the Horde - including her own people - is nothing more than a shitton of bodies to stack between herself and her final death.

And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #36  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:01 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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I never understood why Bolivar couldn't order the mindless undeads to their destruction 100 at a times.
It might take a few years, but eventually the problem would be solved.
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  #37  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:10 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I never understood why Bolivar couldn't order the mindless undeads to their destruction 100 at a times.
It might take a few years, but eventually the problem would be solved.
Destroy them how? Why deny the world a tool to use?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #38  
Old 05-24-2018, 04:19 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Burn them and make fertilizer with the ashes.
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  #39  
Old 05-24-2018, 07:08 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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So, what's this about lightforged Undead?
Isn't this like, partial resurrection? Standard Resurrection brings you back fulling living but because your body is contaminated with dark magic (via Necromancy) or something you don't come back fully and instead end up in some weird mid way between living and dead?
Or is it like a shit ressurection spell? We can't actually bring you completely back to living because that would take too much energy so we will bring you back part way?
Trying to make sense of it all.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2018, 11:21 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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I imagine that consequence free unrestricted resurrections are only game mechanic and that more wise it's not easy to raise someone.

Cathia would be a new kind of light resurrection possible when the known one is not, but with side effects.
And EDGY.
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  #41  
Old 05-25-2018, 01:47 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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You should probably find the excerpt regarding her resurrection if you have questions on it.
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  #42  
Old 05-25-2018, 07:46 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
I never understood why Bolivar couldn't order the mindless undeads to their destruction 100 at a times.
It might take a few years, but eventually the problem would be solved.
Here's your answer: The devs wanted to keep the Scourge around as a faction even after killing off both Ner'zhul and Arthas. Having Bolvar just order the Scourge to just burn themselves would hurt that.
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  #43  
Old 05-26-2018, 02:03 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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You should probably find the excerpt regarding her resurrection if you have questions on it.
Just read it and... It's Naaru Fuckery again. Calia has night terrors and so she visits and talks to a Naaru about it repeatedly: The Naaru talks about how she will be free of those only after a certain point. She finally sees the Forsaken as her people after the meeting and they decide to "Bring her back in a way which she and the Light would have herself be."
It's quite literal Light Necromancy. Animated by the Light as opposed to Dak magic. pg 272-273
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  #44  
Old 05-26-2018, 03:39 PM
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So they're pushing the light/void two sides of the same coin narrative.
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  #45  
Old 06-04-2018, 11:29 AM
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https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/06/04...t-novel-storm/

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The Netherlight Temple

Anduin stepped through a portal into a realm of wonder so beautiful, so Light-filled, his heart seemed to break even as it swelled with joy.

He had spent much time in the Exodar and was accustomed to the soothing purple light and the sense of peace that pervaded the place. But this . . . this had the Exodar’s essence writ large, but with a different touch.

The massive carved statues of draenei should have been intimidating, towering over visitors as they did. Instead, they felt like protective, benevolent presences. The melodic sound of flowing water came from both sides of the ramp that Anduin descended; sparks of light floated up gently, as if created by the soft splashing.

He took a deep breath of the clean, sweet air as if he’d never truly expanded his lungs before. Farther into the temple, down the long, gentle incline, was a cluster of people. He knew who they were, or rather, what they represented, and the knowledge filled him with quiet anticipatory joy.

Velen laid a hand on the king’s shoulder, as he had done so many times over the last years, and smiled.

“Yes,” he affirmed, seeing Anduin’s unspoken question. “They are all here.”

“When you said priests,” Anduin said, “I assumed you meant . . .”

“Priests just like us,” Moira finished. She gestured to the various individuals milling around them. Among their number Anduin saw not only humans, gnomes, dwarves, draenei, and worgen—those who would be at home in Stormwind’s Cathedral of Light—but also night elves, who worshipped their moon goddess, Elune; tauren, who followed their sun god, An’she; and . . .

“Forsaken,” he whispered as the hair along his arms and the back of his neck lifted.

One of them stood, her stooped back toward him, cheerfully talking with a draenei and a dwarf. There was another group heading toward one of the hall’s alcoves, carefully bearing piles of no doubt ancient tomes. This one consisted of a Forsaken, a night elf, and a worgen.

Words would not come. Anduin found himself staring openly, hardly daring to blink lest it all turn out to be a dream. In Azeroth, these groups would be killing one another—or, at the very least, they would be suspicious, hate-filled, and fearful. The musical sound of a night elf’s throaty laugh wafted to him.

Velen looked completely content, but Moira was eyeing him carefully. “You all right, Anduin?”

He nodded. “Yes,” he said, his voice husky. “I can honestly say I’ve never felt better. This . . . all this . . .” He shook his head, smiling. “It’s what I’ve dreamed of seeing all my life.”

“We are priests before all else,” came a voice. It was masculine, warm, and jovial, though it had a peculiar timbre to it, and as Anduin turned, he fully expected to greet a human priest of the Light.

He found himself face-to-face with a Forsaken.

Anduin, schooled since childhood not to let his emotions show, hoped he recovered sufficiently, but inwardly he was reeling. “So it seems,” he said, his voice betraying his astonishment despite himself. “And I am glad for it.”

“Your Majesty,” said Velen, “may I present Archbishop Alonsus Faol.”

The Forsaken’s eyes glowed an eerie yellow. They couldn’t possibly twinkle with amusement as a living man’s would, but somehow they did.

“Don’t fret about not recognizing me,” the archbishop said. “I know I don’t look like my portrait.” He lifted a bony hand and stroked his chin. “I’ve lost the beard, you see. Slimmed down quite a bit, too.”

Oh, yes, those undead eyes were twinkling.

Anduin gave up any hope of behaving in a typically regal manner here. We are priests before all else, the undead being had told him, and he discovered it was a relief to put away the burden of royalty at least temporarily. He smiled and bowed.

“You are a man out of history, sir,” Anduin told the archbishop in a voice of awe. “You founded the paladin order—the Silver Hand. Uther Lightbringer was your first apprentice. And Stormwind might not be standing today were it not for your diligent efforts. To say it is an honor to meet you doesn’t begin to describe it. You were . . . you are one of my heroes.”

Anduin was utterly sincere. He’d pored through all the thick tomes about the benevolent, Greatfather Winter–like priest. The words on those pages painted a picture of a man who was quick to laugh but stood as strong as stone. Historians, usually content with simply recording dry facts, had waxed eloquent about Faol’s warmth and kindliness. Portraits depicted him as a short, stout man with a bushy white beard. The undead being who stood before the king of Stormwind was shorter than average but otherwise unrecognizable. The beard was gone. Cut? Rotted away? And the hair was dark with dried blood and ichor. He smelled like old vellum: dusty but not unpleasant. Faol had died when Anduin was a child, and the boy had never gotten to meet him.

Faol sighed. “I have done and been those things you have cited, true. I have also been a mindless minion of the Scourge.” He lifted his bony arms, indicating the glorious temple and those who tended it. “But here the only thing that matters is that I am a priest first.”

“I’ve been working with the archbishop for some time now,” Moira said. “He’s been helping me and the Dark Irons find and gather priests for the temple. We needed to do that in order to stand against the Legion, but even now that the crisis has passed, I still keep coming here. The archbishop’s fine company. Considering he is, after all . . . you know.” She paused. “A man with no beard.”

Anduin chuckled. He felt a familiar, welcome warmth in his chest as he looked around, trying to be more evaluating in his assessment of the place. Could this be a template for the future? Surely if gnome and tauren, human and blood elf, Forsaken and dwarf, could bond together for the common good, this could be re-created on a larger scale on Azeroth.

The problem was that the priests, at least, had a common point they all agreed on even if each saw the Light through a different lens, as it were.

“There is another notable person I think you’d like to meet,” Faol said to Anduin. “She, too, is from Lordaeron. But do not fear; she yet breathes, though she faced many dangers with courage and the Light’s aid. Come here, my dear.” His voice grew fond as he beckoned to a smiling blonde woman. She stepped forward, taking the archbishop’s desiccated hand without hesitation, then turned to regard Anduin.

“Hello, Your Majesty,” she said. She was, he guessed, a little bit older than Jaina, tall and slender with long golden hair and arresting blue-green eyes. She looked familiar somehow, though Anduin knew he had never met her before. “Please let me offer my condolences on the death of your father. Stormwind and the Alliance lost a truly great man. Your family has always been so kind to mine, and I regret that I wasn’t able to pay my respects.”

“Thank you,” Anduin said. He was trying and failing to place her. “You’ll have to pardon me, but . . . have we met?”

The woman smiled a little sadly. “No, we’ve not,” she said, “but you’ve probably seen a family resemblance in some portraits. You see . . . I’m Calia Menethil. Arthas was my brother.”
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  #46  
Old 06-12-2018, 10:10 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Spoilers are coming out and I’m convinced that Golden is Fojar’s mother.
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  #47  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:44 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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The saltpocalypse is pretty great. People seem to not remember that Nathanos' short story hinted at the Forsaken losing physical strength as their limbs rotted, so that isn't new (but people are stupidly acting like it is). That, or they all just forgot that it's been stated that the Forsaken are all just falling apart.

Same with the Forsaken having to take new names. Nathanos changed his name, and now that Sylvanas has been going steadily more batshit ever since Arthas died, it makes some twisted sense that she would start forcing her people to give up on their identities of their past lives. Especially after the "Godfrey Incident". Same with going "full Hitler/Stalin" with confiscations of books, reeducation, and Fascist thuggery.
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  #48  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:03 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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It’s typical regime change. First thing you do is eradicate all memory of the previous dynasty. Happened all the time from the days of Egyptian Pharaohs to the time of Italian Princes. It’s ruthless, but if you’re to have a dictatorship then ruthlessness is a virtue, not a vice. It’s only in democracy or republics where such is considered cruel or evil.
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  #49  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:41 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
It’s typical regime change. First thing you do is eradicate all memory of the previous dynasty. Happened all the time from the days of Egyptian Pharaohs to the time of Italian Princes. It’s ruthless, but if you’re to have a dictatorship then ruthlessness is a virtue, not a vice. It’s only in democracy or republics where such is considered cruel or evil.
Yeah, I don't see much of a problem with it. I always saw Sylvanas' words about being "pro-Forsaken" and fighting for Lordaeron to be just her PR. She was always ruthless, and never gave a single fuck about "her people", they were always just "arrows in her quiver" to her.

This book just cements that.
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  #50  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:15 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Now that the book is out anything noteworthy that wasn't in the Amazon leak?

Basic gist I can get is that it's "Anduin meets with Conclave and Faol/Calia, decides to reach out to Forsaken, Calia says she isn't interested in being Queen and considers herself non-aligned, meeting goes bad, Calia decides she does want to be Queen after all, Sylvanas kills her and any Forsaken who were on the field, Anduin and Faol raise her as Lightforged Undead"

Biggest sticking point for me is that we don't seem to be clear on Calia and Faol's intentions after the climax. Logic seems to suggest that since the Warchief of the Horde just killed Calia that she and Faol are now persona non-grata in the Horde which de-facto aligns them with the Alliance, but to my knowledge that is never made explicit.
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