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Old 09-18-2018, 04:22 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Default Story development for Saurfang, Tyrande, and Vol’jin (Possible Spoilers)

8.1 promises to advance the story for Saurfang, Tyrande, and Vol’jin. So what do you think will happen to these 3? What do you want to happen?

-Saurfang will need to get out of prison. Will we be rescuing him as Horde players? I think not. A rehash of that stockades scenario just to pick him up when he refused our rescue last time sounds rather dull. So as Alliance players will we be watching him escape? I’m sure that will be a most enjoyable experience for Alliance players :p. Anduin just letting him go will please no one. Saurfang could defect. That would piss me off, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad. I’d say the ideal way to do it is a Horde Flashback scenario where we play as Saurfang as he cleaves his way out of Stormwind. From there, does he start gathering support for a coup? Fall back in line to defeat Sylvanas? Challenge her to a Mak’Gora? Go back to Outland to get Thrall?

Tyrande: I imagine we’re looking at a story of Vengeance. I imagine that’s what Night Elf fans want. I wonder if it will be tied more to Warfront, or perhaps to some other front. I’ll admit I’d love to see her meet the Lun’alai Druids in Zuldazar, or perhaps interact more with her hometown of Suramar. Will she establish a new home for the Night Elves?

Vol’jin: somehow we get from “where be Vol’jin?” to golden Vol’jin prepping Queen Talanji for a speech . How do we get there? Will we find out more about Bwonsamdi’s boss?
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:02 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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For Tyrande, my money is on her being present at some kinda of strategy meeting for the alliance, making a comment or two on some completely-non-night-elf-related strategy that's being drawn up by Greymane and perhaps a couple other leaders.
She won't actually say or do anything of actual substance or interest to any night elf fan out there. Meanwhile a new blue post response to night elf compaints on the forums proudly proclaims evidence of how the elves are totally still in the fight and all that....because Tyrande was present for one lousy meeting.

Either that, or they overcompensate for fan demands and we get a Tyrande going completely psycho-mode after that much talked about revenge, to echo perceived fan ideas and feelings.
This is of course met with Malfurion and maybe one or two other characters trying to calm her down while giving some convenient plot excuse for why we can't be doing what she wants right now, thusly playing mouthpiece for the developers.
And of course, this will be the last and only time any major alliance character will ever straightforwardly mention such revenge, without it falling under some lame brand of paladin justice and rhetoric, all too generic and unspecific for any night elf fan's liking.

What do I want to happen? I heard something about an Azshara warfront having been leaked or somesuch. Something about an alliance naval assault on the goblins?
That better be night elf d-day, wiping out Gallywix' place of business overnight and forcing a full double time forced march retreat of all horde forces from Ashenvale and Darkshore if they intend keep Orgrimmar on the map.
Of course, the horde forces aren't going to just get to walk home for free. They'll have to get there through eastern Ashenvale. In the middle of a moonlit night. That's when they find out, in their hurry, that the elves are already there...and they have no intention of taking a single prisoner.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:17 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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My two cents:

Saurfang will be a neutral storyline, available for both factions. I don't think he will escape prison, but instead we will somehow explore his past history (Alliance may interrogate him, Horde may relive his past in some shamanic way). Flashbacks of the original wars? Exploring what the Horde was, is and can be? There's a lot of potential there.

Tyrande, I'm hoping it's about the future of the night elves, not just vengeance. We will have the Darkshore battlefront to show night elves being fierce, so instead turn Tyrande into a real leader caring for her people, make her seek different night elf factions, try to bring them together for survival, set up things so the race can survive its current crisis.

I'm sure Vol'jin's story is pretty much the one that has been datamined: exploring his past and then becoming a Loa.
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Old 09-19-2018, 05:49 AM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Tyrande, I'm hoping it's about the future of the night elves, not just vengeance. We will have the Darkshore battlefront to show night elves being fierce, so instead turn Tyrande into a real leader caring for her people
The problem I have with this is that it implies the battle for Darkshore will just be a token effort moment of cool without any meaningful impact in favor of the elves, other than polishing that warrior image for a fleeting moment. The very definition of that hollow, pointless vengeance you rightly express dislike toward.
Meanwhile, having the survivors elsewhere basically resign into not trying to return home, however practical that might seem, will only further undermine the war effort and it's apparent intent, adding insult to injury. And you can't tell me, with the timing being what it is, that it's just a temporary regrouping, because that's what the existing refugees are for narratively demonstrating. Anyone who's been around and paying attention knows that any kind of setting up shop beyond that will have nothing temporary about it no matter what they say for the time being.

Any developer who thinks that's what someone like me wants to see is well and truly missing the point of it all. Once again.

But, that's just me and my Kalimdor-or-nothing stance speaking.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:18 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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The problem I have with this is that it implies the battle for Darkshore will just be a token effort moment of cool without any meaningful impact in favor of the elves, other than polishing that warrior image for a fleeting moment. The very definition of that hollow, pointless vengeance you rightly express dislike toward.
Meanwhile, having the survivors elsewhere basically resign into not trying to return home, however practical that might seem, will only further undermine the war effort and it's apparent intent, adding insult to injury. And you can't tell me, with the timing being what it is, that it's just a temporary regrouping, because that's what the existing refugees are for narratively demonstrating. Anyone who's been around and paying attention knows that any kind of setting up shop beyond that will have nothing temporary about it no matter what they say for the time being.

Any developer who thinks that's what someone like me wants to see is well and truly missing the point of it all. Once again.

But, that's just me and my Kalimdor-or-nothing stance speaking.
By its very nature, the Warfront means a long draw-out battrlefront that won't get to be resolved any time soon.

I'd rather see the night elves developed in a meaningful way, maybe pushed into a new direction, than some sort of "let's kill the Horde" questline which ends in a fleeting victory that is not reflected in-game. I really doubt a vengeance quest would go beyond "we killed this general" or "we conquered this outpost".

The final state of Kalimdor will only probably be revealed only in the end of BfA. And I don't doubt it will be firmly under Horde control. Specially if Horde continues to lose ground in EK, eventually even losing Silvermoon.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:20 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I guess saurfang has replaced Thrall.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:39 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Idea that popped into my head, what if Tyrande meets the Banshee/Dark Ranger of Summermoon? At the end of Elegy Summermoon was not ready to rest in peace. Tyrande could come face to face with hard questions about why she wasn’t there, why she left with Mal’furion, but even if she isn’t at fault with any of that, more importantly, what is she going to do now. She could join Summermoon in a quest for vengeance. She could focus on building a new home. She could find balance between the two.

Mainly, I want to see Summermoon become a bigger character.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:57 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Idea that popped into my head, what if Tyrande meets the Banshee/Dark Ranger of Summermoon? At the end of Elegy Summermoon was not ready to rest in peace. Tyrande could come face to face with hard questions about why she wasn’t there, why she left with Mal’furion, but even if she isn’t at fault with any of that, more importantly, what is she going to do now. She could join Summermoon in a quest for vengeance. She could focus on building a new home. She could find balance between the two.

Mainly, I want to see Summermoon become a bigger character.
I would like this as well. I don't want her to become undead and suddenly start serving the Forsaken like I've been reading elsewhere. It's a retarded idea, and very simpleminded when there's clear examples that Alliance accept undead members like the Death Knights for example.
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:42 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I would like this as well. I don't want her to become undead and suddenly start serving the Forsaken like I've been reading elsewhere. It's a retarded idea, and very simpleminded when there's clear examples that Alliance accept undead members like the Death Knights for example.
Absolutely. Summermoon should feel for Sylvanas the way Sylvanas felt about Arthas.

Edit:
https://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=285012/signal-nathanos
And it’s the Horde that raises her. We can always hope that she retains her will and identity, but..........

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Old 10-16-2018, 03:10 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Do recall that Banshees are not just a Scourge thing, they existed in the past and were primarily spirits of brutalized night elf women from the War of the Ancients. Scourge just empowered them and let them take their resentment out on the living. Ofc then a big contingent of new she elf spirits was added when the Scourge sacked QT, and they obv. became the main face of the banshees. and a number of human women too. (Interesting how it seems only women of pretty races get to come back as banshees ).

Anyway point is Delaryn could have been one of these selfmade banshees. She and a few of her fellow sentinels who were extremely bitter could have risen, perhaps reposessed their bodies like Sylvanas did and became the Forsaken's Forsaken. Rallying other undead wronged by Sylvanas to claim vengeance, finally driving Sylvanas' story full circle.

But ofc. that is mostly a pipedream since the raised night elves seem to have fallen in with Sylvanas well enough. Delaryn and Sira both were extremely bitter as they died, I would say unreasonably bitter but then again I was never killed while literally abandoned by God and Jesus (Elune and Tyrande) So while them turning on their own is not the most plausible scenario, and definitely not a satisfying one, I can buy it, barely.
Ofc Sira does leave a cryptic "we have our reasons for joining Sylvanas" comment which might imply a backstab down the road. Same as Voss and Garona might be working with the Uncrowned still to assassinate Sylvanas.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:10 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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I do have to wonder where exactly they are going with this whole night warrior business. Seems to me that all the effort put into the alliance side quest and the whole scenario in general, as exemplified in some of the new art assets from Tyrande's new looks to the skybox and lighting - it all comes across as trying just a little too hard to impress night elf fans and give them something to work up hopes for. As if the writers already know that this is all they're going to put forth in that direction, so better make their one shot count by making it all at least seem very impressive.

The real question is, why does Tyrande having some kind of a new power matter? What is she going to do with it that we can actually believe to be a plausible future? Because if this is supposed dazzle and give us hope and faith that the elves might have a say in their future after all, with the characters turned forsaken coming across as a heavy-handed commentary on those fans who've lost that faith, then it's not working. I don't believe in them securing a meaningful spot on the world map in a reasonable timeframe any more than I did before seeing these previews. I think what we're going to see in the upcoming patch with this little story and the opened warfront is supposed to be that spot and that'll be all she wrote for a very very long time, topped off by losing and retreating in the end after all.

A for effort to the elves who announced to Anduin that they're going, with or without his help, I guess. At least that part is exactly what it should be, provided that I understood that bit correctly from the summary of a youtube video I saw and learned about this whole thing from.
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Old 10-20-2018, 06:10 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I do have to wonder where exactly they are going with this whole night warrior business. Seems to me that all the effort put into the alliance side quest and the whole scenario in general, as exemplified in some of the new art assets from Tyrande's new looks to the skybox and lighting - it all comes across as trying just a little too hard to impress night elf fans and give them something to work up hopes for. As if the writers already know that this is all they're going to put forth in that direction, so better make their one shot count by making it all at least seem very impressive.

The real question is, why does Tyrande having some kind of a new power matter? What is she going to do with it that we can actually believe to be a plausible future? Because if this is supposed dazzle and give us hope and faith that the elves might have a say in their future after all, with the characters turned forsaken coming across as a heavy-handed commentary on those fans who've lost that faith, then it's not working. I don't believe in them securing a meaningful spot on the world map in a reasonable timeframe any more than I did before seeing these previews. I think what we're going to see in the upcoming patch with this little story and the opened warfront is supposed to be that spot and that'll be all she wrote for a very very long time, topped off by losing and retreating in the end after all.

A for effort to the elves who announced to Anduin that they're going, with or without his help, I guess. At least that part is exactly what it should be, provided that I understood that bit correctly from the summary of a youtube video I saw and learned about this whole thing from.
It all just feels like a halfhearted attempt and more of the usual telling instead of showing issue we've come to expect from Blizzard. Because while it's cool to hear Tyrande say "I am the vengeance of Elune" or "No mercy" we rarely are seeing her actually put action to those words.

I think they could make this Night Warrior concept cool with three simple things:
-Give the Warfront armor some recolors that reflect the Night Warrior aesthetic.
-Have Tyrande actually destroy that base full of Forsaken instead of just freezing them and peacing out because that's no different than imprisoning them.
-Show more powers that actually look like something Tyrande is drawing from the Night Warrior aspect. Her spells still look too much like Balance Druid shit, I was hoping for a type of shadow magic that isn't explicitly void, but more of the kind of shadowy magic that Wardens use. Right now all we've seen her do is use magic to cloak everything in darkness, which doesn't really sound offensive so much as a utility ability. If this is a more offensive aspect of Elune then I want to see actual offensive magic being used.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:00 PM
Icefrost Icefrost is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
It all just feels like a halfhearted attempt and more of the usual telling instead of showing issue we've come to expect from Blizzard. Because while it's cool to hear Tyrande say "I am the vengeance of Elune" or "No mercy" we rarely are seeing her actually put action to those words.

I think they could make this Night Warrior concept cool with three simple things:
-Give the Warfront armor some recolors that reflect the Night Warrior aesthetic.
-Have Tyrande actually destroy that base full of Forsaken instead of just freezing them and peacing out because that's no different than imprisoning them.
-Show more powers that actually look like something Tyrande is drawing from the Night Warrior aspect. Her spells still look too much like Balance Druid shit, I was hoping for a type of shadow magic that isn't explicitly void, but more of the kind of shadowy magic that Wardens use. Right now all we've seen her do is use magic to cloak everything in darkness, which doesn't really sound offensive so much as a utility ability. If this is a more offensive aspect of Elune then I want to see actual offensive magic being used.
The way I see it, the darkness stuff is actually a fairly nice and thematically fitting way to do something that's visible and obvious to the player without portraying a warrior priestess and the martially focused people she's a figurehead of in an overly magical manner. I for one appreciate that. It's not really the writer's fault that they're working with a game engine that pretty much inevitably will make that come across as a clunkier and less impressive tactical advantage than a decent author with a couple paragraphs of prose could.

My larger point being, I don't really have a problem with the visual presentation or the dialogue we've seen so far. It's more that the timing for something like this seems wrong. Had they done this toward the expected end of a warfront storyline, it'd be much easier to buy it as a decisive development to resolve an ongoing conflict in favor of the elves, giving them some kind of a meaningful victory that actually sticks.
What we're getting instead seems like a somewhat rushed attempt to quiet down the crowd that's been wondering out loud whether the civilization that pretty much got burned down is going to get a word in amidst the flurry of cinematics and other content featuring pretty much everyone but the elves themselves reacting to that event. This of course implies that pretty much nobody at this time has any f*ing clue if they're even doing anything with this night warrior thing, besides letting it be a momentary hurrah for some retribution.

Which ironically enough, according to popular opinion I've heard so far, immediately gets undermined to the point of completely unconvincing due to how the quest ends from what we've seen so far.
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:14 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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There’s a part of me that hopes Delaryn and co are faking their allegiance and will turn on Sylvanas at just the right moment, but I imagine that’s too much to hope for.
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Old 10-24-2018, 02:20 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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There’s a part of me that hopes Delaryn and co are faking their allegiance and will turn on Sylvanas at just the right moment, but I imagine that’s too much to hope for.
There was a "leak" (so, take it with a huge grain of salt) talking how the Kaldorei dark rangers are a trojan horse set up by the night elves to take down Sylvanas, which is why Tyrande doesn't slaughter them all at the end of the scenario. Leak or not, it is an interesting theory by itself.
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