Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #276  
Old 12-14-2017, 12:09 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness - Moderator
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: All the lands of Wonder.
Posts: 40,694

Night Elf Icon (War3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruinshin View Post
Ehh. While this might be true, Sentinels are more interested in nature as it is. A common theme amongst druids of any stripe (Save fandral, funny enough) is that nature should be as they see it, not as it is.

So plaguelands might be healed, but it wont be as it was
Isn't Fandral the one who wanted to plant a huge ass tree, while Malfunction just wanted to leave nature as it was?
Reply With Quote
  #277  
Old 12-14-2017, 12:54 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,421

Default

Was reading up on something, and it struck me that they made Fandral's reasons for planting Teldrassil a lot less sympathetic when Chronicle established that the guy was already addicted to secretly planting unauthorized world trees and causing disasters by doing so.

What the hell was he even doing in charge of anything? It's not like he had some sterling record of leadership and success. His entire backstory is basically him unilaterally creating a bunch of calamities that everyone else had to clean up. Yet despite that, Malfurion let him repeat his worst offense, then put him in charge of the druids.

The Cenarion Circle (and Fandral, but he was already secretly a bad guy by then) literally knew from the Andrassil/Vordrassil debacle what would probably happen if a world tree were planted and not blessed by the Aspects, but they just let him do it anyway, and then everyone was shocked when the unblessed world tree was immediately beset by corruption while being supervised by the guy who botched the last unblessed world tree which succumbed to corruption.

I get the occasional use of "history repeating itself" as a plot device, but it just makes everyone look stupid when history only repeats because they basically put a known repeat felon and drug addict in charge of the evidence lockers.

Last edited by ARM3481; 12-14-2017 at 01:13 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #278  
Old 12-14-2017, 01:50 AM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

Eternal
Ethenil's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,567

Default

Since we only get a few glimpses of time in the ten thousand years of elvem post-Sundering history, ita sage to say he earned his position and authority by doing a whole bunch of important and successful things. If he held such power in elven society, then he did something to earn it. Stuff large enough for him to be trusted after Andrassil, after Ahn'Qiraj, and even after Teldrassil.
Reply With Quote
  #279  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:00 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,372
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Was reading up on something, and it struck me that they made Fandral's reasons for planting Teldrassil a lot less sympathetic when Chronicle established that the guy was already addicted to secretly planting unauthorized world trees and causing disasters by doing so.

What the hell was he even doing in charge of anything? It's not like he had some sterling record of leadership and success. His entire backstory is basically him unilaterally creating a bunch of calamities that everyone else had to clean up. Yet despite that, Malfurion let him repeat his worst offense, then put him in charge of the druids.

The Cenarion Circle (and Fandral, but he was already secretly a bad guy by then) literally knew from the Andrassil/Vordrassil debacle what would probably happen if a world tree were planted and not blessed by the Aspects, but they just let him do it anyway, and then everyone was shocked when the unblessed world tree was immediately beset by corruption while being supervised by the guy who botched the last unblessed world tree which succumbed to corruption.

I get the occasional use of "history repeating itself" as a plot device, but it just makes everyone look stupid when history only repeats because they basically put a known repeat felon and drug addict in charge of the evidence lockers.
I'm not sure if they "should have known better." Andrassil specifically became corrupted because its roots penetrated Yogg'Saron's prison. No Old God is off the coast of northwestern Kalimdor and Shaladrassil was planted some time between the WotA and present day, before Teldrassil, and it was not corrupted until very recently. At the time of Teldrassil's planting, there had been one failure (Andrassil) and two successful world tree plantings (Nordrassil and Shaladrassil) and nothing indicates Shaladrassil was blessed by the Aspects.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #280  
Old 12-14-2017, 02:54 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,421

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Since we only get a few glimpses of time in the ten thousand years of elvem post-Sundering history, ita sage to say he earned his position and authority by doing a whole bunch of important and successful things. If he held such power in elven society, then he did something to earn it. Stuff large enough for him to be trusted after Andrassil, after Ahn'Qiraj, and even after Teldrassil.
Right, a bunch of more important stuff than every important thing he ever did that established his character. Right.

His defining lore has basically established him as recklessly incompetent from start to finish. "There must have been other stuff" is a meaningless sentiment, because if so that other stuff should be more prominent in his backstory than the things we know about.

Instead his story is one long string of Fandral making a dumb decision, things falling apart because of it, someone else rolling (or flying) in to save the situation, and then Fandral cursing their names for fixing the mess he made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I'm not sure if they "should have known better." Andrassil specifically became corrupted because its roots penetrated Yogg'Saron's prison. No Old God is off the coast of northwestern Kalimdor and Shaladrassil was planted some time between the WotA and present day, before Teldrassil, and it was not corrupted until very recently. At the time of Teldrassil's planting, there had been one failure (Andrassil) and two successful world tree plantings (Nordrassil and Shaladrassil) and nothing indicates Shaladrassil was blessed by the Aspects.
Shaladrassil's origin is unclear. It's actually treated as the first world tree in one of the dungeon journal entries, which makes me wonder if it might have been a naturally occurring offspring of the Mother Tree rather than a deliberately planted tree.

There's even a corrupted world tree in the Emerald Dream's version of Un'goro, and since the Dream is supposed to reflect Azeroth in its pristine, pre-Sundered state, that suggests there may have once been a world tree in the real Un'goro at some point. I have to wonder if world trees might have been more numerous on ancient Kalimdor until most of them perhaps died in the Sundering, leaving just Shaladrassil.

And indeed we can see that without any indication of blessings given as with Nordrassil, Shaladrassil eventually succumbed to the Nightmare as well. Meanwhile, despite all the Old God "stuff" throughout Azeroth's crust and everything Old-Goddy going on all over Hyjal at the time, Nordrassil remained free of corruption throughout the Cataclysm and (so far) to this day. So their deduction from Andrassil was dead-on, as per Page 124 of Chronicle: "The Cenarion Circle knew that, without the blessing of the Aspects, Andrassil was vulnerable to corruption." Yet they just let him go ahead and make another one. And the lack of an Old God nearby is irrelevant, because evidently they didn't realize Yogg-Saron's prison extended under Vordrassil's roots until it breached his containment either. And we've since learned during Cataclysm that there is something vast and powerful of the Old Gods' making buried under northwestern Kalimdor. Meaning they allowed him to practically copy the same mistake (as a deliberate calamity given his true loyalties by then) that he made in Northrend, outright: planting a World Tree with no blessings from the Aspects near land that could (and did) turn out to have something evil and corrupting underneath it.

We already know per Chronicle that when the other druids found out about Andrassil, they were furious at Fandral for running off and planting it, only letting it be because it seemed to work at first. Given how wrong things went after that, Andrassil's failure strikes me as more than enough reason for them to have shut down Fandral when he started insisting that he be allowed to pull the same stunt again, and without the Aspects' blessings again to boot.

And then predictably there were rampant problems with corruption in Teldrassil from day one. That should have set off warnings and had the Cenarion Circle getting rid of it ASAP, since it failed to restore their immortality anyway and so was therefore just another Vordrassil waiting to happen. Which it basically became. Considering how its creation coincided with the start of the time of WoW, i.e. the time when the Nightmare spread and made itself known, it strikes me as likely that by letting Fandral plant Teldrassil and by dismissing every reason that Vordrassil went wrong, they outright let him directly facilitate the continuation of what had started with the corruption of Vordrassil.
Reply With Quote
  #281  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:14 PM
Hades Hades is offline

Faerie Dragon
Hades's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Barcelona, Catalunya
Posts: 145
Send a message via MSN to Hades

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethenil View Post
Since we only get a few glimpses of time in the ten thousand years of elvem post-Sundering history, ita sage to say he earned his position and authority by doing a whole bunch of important and successful things. If he held such power in elven society, then he did something to earn it. Stuff large enough for him to be trusted after Andrassil, after Ahn'Qiraj, and even after Teldrassil.
You are totally right, but Blizzard probably has never thought about this, and will never do it. He is just the cliche guy who planted world trees and it went bad.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
critical thinking

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.