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View Poll Results: What should be done with Slowpoke after Halls close?
Let him return (with or without limitations) 34 53.13%
Ban him again 30 46.88%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:36 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I also played GW with him and he was a very nice guy there. But nah, let's treat him like an idiot because we are internet tough guys.
I want to say this is ironic for some reason
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  #52  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:39 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
The past few years have taught me that people can be cruel, rude and insulting when their personal beliefs are threatened. People don't change their opinions on online forums unless they go into a discussion with the intention to learn something from collective experience.

The value of Scrolls of Lore lies in what it offers to people. It offered me something incredible. It offered me friendship. It gave me some of the best friends I've ever had and still have. Last summer, the group of friends I'd made here met up in Malta, and we had an amazing time. We remain in touch over Skype every single day and play Pathfinder together on Fridays or Saturdays. Great War is a monument we created together. Etc. You get the idea.

What's more, there were days I used to argue here. I'd argue about politics, religion and Warcraft lore. I'd get angry when people dissed my favourite factions in Warcraft, or disagreed with me. I took it very personally. I'd argue with Nephalim, with Gurtogg Bloodboil, with others whose names I have forgotten. I argued with Bolvar.

What I learned was that Bolvar's religious beliefs have nothing to do with me. They're not an example of who he is as a person. He may believe that Islam is terrible, or that gays are going to hell, or that I'm going to hell. But he doesn't believe these things because he's a bad person. In fact, I stopped discussing politics and religion because I realised he was good, and a good father, and a great man, even if he gets way too much pleasure out of bashing people who share my beliefs. He was a large part of why I stopped arguing on the forums. Because I didn't want to fight him any more, I wanted to focus on what we had in common, out of respect. I only enter a debate if I have a question, and I let people clarify both sides of an issue.

What does this have to do with Slowpokeking? Everything. Think about that for a minute.

What makes you all so passionate that some kid you've never met and has never insulted anyone deserves to be bullied and banished from your midst simply because he has violates some social norms? Harmlessly?

What is it about his posting habits that gets your pants so twisted, and your jimmies so rustled, that you can't use the Ignore feature? I think those of you who take issue with him so passionately show more social fault and defect than he does.

I think that Slowpoke is harmless, and has contributed a lot to this forum. He may not have contributed things of a certain level of quality, but by his presence Scrolls is what it is, because a community is made up by its posters.

I'll tell you what diminishes a community. Division and hatred. And that's all a lot of you have begun to show recently. I'm ashamed of what Scrolls is becoming, not because of people like Slowpoke, but because of those who can't see past basic differences, and show some humility and compassion to their fellow man. That is what I have learned.
I just think if the point of the forum is to build friendships, converse and constructively talk about a common fandom, fostering behaviour that shares those ideals are key to the concept of the big picture..

Again, I asked you not for the big picture. Just pros and cons of keeping slow, not the grander images. Theres a reason the community has turned as it has. Many of us, myself included tried tirelessly at one point or another to be civil, to get through. These things have happened naturally, Slow turned me against him on a number of occasions, not only with things directed to me but things to others. His behavioural patterns do not mesh with the whole. I get you want, love and peace for your fellow man, you want us all singing songs and weaving texty baskets together. I just don't see that happening. My personal objections to Slow are mostly due to his inability to accept reality or learn from his mistakes, his personal views on the subjects we discuss here are pointless. Honestly, while I might come across as toxic at times, I've had little to no animosity in any real continental form (infact the opposite) of anyone here, regardless of their views or personality quarks (With the exception of Sold). I merely think this forum should strive for your ideal, for what you yourself said, and the truth is sometimes to maintain that community, one must moderate. Theres many of you I disagree with regularly, theres many people here who's views I outright loathe, but the people behind those keyboards I've grown attached to regardless of that petty behaviour, it's why we all keep coming back, we amuse eachother. I've had issues with Fojar's stances on things in the past and his behaviour, but in all honesty, I've asked if he's wanted to grab a pint. Bolvar's grown on me like a cancer, infact, I'm sure we would get along really well in the real world.

Ask yourself this, would you, form a real friendship with Slow. Are you going to be able to skype with him. Play pathfinder. Hang out in the physical space of the real world. Most of us, the community (and I'm pretty sure I'm speaking for everyone here) would be honestly scared to.

So is this a popularity contest? Not really. If anything it's the opposite, I want to see Slow go for his own sake. I truely believe in all this time he has proven to be unstable socially. Theres thousands of Starwars, Liv Tyler, LOTR, Guildwars and Pokemon forums out there in which I'm sure he would... well... carry on as he has here, without falter, but for some reason he sticks around and many, not only myself at one point or another have simply accepted him as a thing to be laughed at. I really feel many of those who want to keep him around want to keep him as some sort of village idiot, which I don't think is fair given his (and it has to be at this point) very real psychosis.

Why do I care? I'm not sure I actually do. I do however remember a forum I grew to love and certain presences here have threatened it and left their permanent mark on people here and us historically. I'll admit, my love for this forum has faltered, my productivity here has dwindled and my patience grown thing over the last period. Much of this is because of obvious real life business enterprise and well, having a real life. But I still pop in from time to time, have I become caustic, yes. But just as Sold, I'd rather take a ban myself than watch this "slowly" continue to be a train wreck.

Do I feel like I've made an impression on any of you over the years? Not really? But that doesn't mean I've not some sort of investment here. I've joked about being the avatar of cleansing fire for this forum, that was only in half jest, I do however want a return to the productive posting, positive behaviour, speculation and general comradery that brought me here in the first place. This drama has carried on long enough, dragged out for years, it's only natural that it would come to this point. Slow has turned people against him with his insanity and now we sit back and watch as he's formed people into being bullies against him. It was through his behaviour he made people like this. It's time to deal with the consequences, you don't like bullies, don't foster a creature that breeds them.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 05-23-2013 at 06:50 PM..
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  #53  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:46 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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I think you vastly exaggerate his faults. And I already consider him somewhat of a friend.

But as I have said, I will accept that if it comes down to it, I will be the one to ask him to leave. I just hope the community is capable of showing more tolerance than that. It's really as simple as not reading his threads if they're annoying to you - and I would also be willing to go the extra mile and monitor him personally if he were to be kept on. But that's beside the point.
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  #54  
Old 05-23-2013, 06:52 PM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
I think you vastly exaggerate his faults. And I already consider him somewhat of a friend.

But as I have said, I will accept that if it comes down to it, I will be the one to ask him to leave. I just hope the community is capable of showing more tolerance than that. It's really as simple as not reading his threads if they're annoying to you - and I would also be willing to go the extra mile and monitor him personally if he were to be kept on. But that's beside the point.
I tried to be his friend a few times, I tried to give advice and turn around his posting behaviours. My view of him was crafted through those interactions.

The rest of you, I'd buy you all a pint if you found your way into my fair city.

I'm really only posting so much on this because I'm waiting for the lady to get home and don't want to start playing a game than having any real investment. In the end, I suppose I wish we had more pride in our community. You guys do what you want, I'm done.

Last edited by Sonneillon; 05-23-2013 at 06:57 PM..
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  #55  
Old 05-23-2013, 07:48 PM
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This poll lacks "Let him return, but only with a crippled account"- and "Why getting rid of HOL?"-options. Where's the point of getting rid of HoL in the first place, it works perfectly: Slow has access to the people that like him and i have my peace and quiet up north where the normal people reside. Bad presedence or no, changing anything would just lead back to new alt-accounts, banning of IPs and in the worst scenario legal consequences (which i highly doubt will end if anything but a bunch of lawyers having a good laugh at your missfortune).
IF you close the halls and let him back TAKE AWAY HIS SIGNATURE and have some sadistic mod have fun censoring him if he gets touchy feely again.
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  #56  
Old 05-23-2013, 07:57 PM
Kyalin Raintree Kyalin Raintree is offline

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May I object to the closing of the halls?

I know, that seems a bit crazy, but the halls have served a purpose. They allow people to vent their frustrations about the lore in a place that isn't front and center. It prevents threads from being infected with a posters' bad moods, and provides a safe harbor for opinions that garner a lot of disagreement, but are still at least somewhat valuable.

I know my opinion is a bit skewed, considering that I've taken advantage of this forum, but I think it has value. Perhaps not as a punishment device but as a safety valve.
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  #57  
Old 05-23-2013, 07:59 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Honestly, I'm not sure people want Slow back because they actually like him or because they feel like they need someone they can point and laugh at. And I'm not sure if some realise there's a difference.

As for me, I'd prefer that he stay banned for his rather flagrant disrespect of the rules (in my opinion at least, Slow and I have hashed this out via PM already so no need to continue that). But if he does come back he needs to be kept on a tight leash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin Raintree View Post
May I object to the closing of the halls?

I know, that seems a bit crazy, but the halls have served a purpose. They allow people to vent their frustrations about the lore in a place that isn't front and center. It prevents threads from being infected with a posters' bad moods, and provides a safe harbor for opinions that garner a lot of disagreement, but are still at least somewhat valuable.

I know my opinion is a bit skewed, considering that I've taken advantage of this forum, but I think it has value. Perhaps not as a punishment device but as a safety valve.
We can accomplish that with a thread again. As for opinions that garner disagreement, those are not the problem. The problem is how those disagreements are handled, and this forum doesn't fix that it just moves them around.

Last edited by Garotar; 05-23-2013 at 08:01 PM..
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  #58  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:00 PM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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I like Slow in moderation. Too much of him breeds a desire to throttle him (no offense intended).

I say if he finally shows real contrition for the B.S that went on earlier, the second account nonsense, etc. then maybe let him back in. But if he continues to refuse to accept the validity of the mod's decision to evict him the first time, remove him. His obsession with this place, though exaggerated a bit by Cantus, is a little worrying, and honestly... people spend most of the time either yelling at or mocking him and it can be quite 'frown-worthy' to see.



Just two cents from a guy who barely posts anymore, but still frequently reads.
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  #59  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:09 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Slowpoke is damn near insufferably thick and often actively detrimental to any conversation into which he inserts himself, but the first of those two isn't necessarily a good reason to ban someone, and the second could be said of half of SoL's membership. I found his initial banning to be unfair and arbitrary, and though I wouldn't shed a tear were he to leave of his own volition I can't say that he shouldn't be given a second chance based around the shaky circumstances surrounding his initial banishment.
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  #60  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:29 PM
Edoll Edoll is offline

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Can we just keep the Halls? I enjoy having this pit of angst and wall banging that I can happily ignore when I want. Also, add "Liv," "Tyler," and ":raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor:" to the filtered words list.
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  #61  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:47 PM
Ragnahar Ragnahar is offline

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Let the internet society regulate itself! If you can't stand someone, practice self control and ignore them.
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  #62  
Old 05-23-2013, 08:59 PM
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Let him stay. I thought Slow's banning was entirely uncalled for. Plus, I like the guy. He's nice and is always ready to talk about topics I'm interested in.
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  #63  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:13 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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I can safely (and smugly) say that SPK has never annoyed me.

Maybe it is because I don't read most of his posts? Perhaps.

FREEDOM FOR SPK! FREEDOM FOR POSTING!
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  #64  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:35 PM
xie323 xie323 is offline

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SPK has never annoyed me, he can have an intrest, even if it's :raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor:. I have Zeon as my pet intrest so he can have :raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor::raptor: jsut as long as he dosen't make another big gif sig.

FREE SPK!
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  #65  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:42 PM
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Giving him back full privileges after how he handled the initial (justifiable, IMO) banning ought to be completely off the table.

I think he should be banned, but for only a month or so. If he abides by it and shows he can actually submit to the will of the staff, let him back with full privileges again. And after that when he fucks up do more increasingly long temp bans, don't antagonize him with changed titles, etc. If he tries to circumvent for any reason, even if he thinks it's unjust, ban his ass permanently.
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  #66  
Old 05-23-2013, 09:55 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Let him return but with a lot of restrictions and a very low tolerance for rule breaking.
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  #67  
Old 05-23-2013, 10:05 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
The past few years have taught me that people can be cruel, rude and insulting when their personal beliefs are threatened. People don't change their opinions on online forums unless they go into a discussion with the intention to learn something from collective experience.

The value of Scrolls of Lore lies in what it offers to people. It offered me something incredible. It offered me friendship. It gave me some of the best friends I've ever had and still have. Last summer, the group of friends I'd made here met up in Malta, and we had an amazing time. We remain in touch over Skype every single day and play Pathfinder together on Fridays or Saturdays. Great War is a monument we created together. Etc. You get the idea.

What's more, there were days I used to argue here. I'd argue about politics, religion and Warcraft lore. I'd get angry when people dissed my favourite factions in Warcraft, or disagreed with me. I took it very personally. I'd argue with Nephalim, with Gurtogg Bloodboil, with others whose names I have forgotten. I argued with Bolvar.

What I learned was that Bolvar's religious beliefs have nothing to do with me. They're not an example of who he is as a person. He may believe that Islam is terrible, or that gays are going to hell, or that I'm going to hell. But he doesn't believe these things because he's a bad person. In fact, I stopped discussing politics and religion because I realised he was good, and a good father, and a great man, even if he gets way too much pleasure out of bashing people who share my beliefs. He was a large part of why I stopped arguing on the forums. Because I didn't want to fight him any more, I wanted to focus on what we had in common, out of respect. I only enter a debate if I have a question, and I let people clarify both sides of an issue.

What does this have to do with Slowpokeking? Everything. Think about that for a minute.

What makes you all so passionate that some kid you've never met and has never insulted anyone deserves to be bullied and banished from your midst simply because he has violated some social norms? Harmlessly?

What is it about his posting habits that gets your pants so twisted, and your jimmies so rustled, that you can't use the Ignore feature? I think those of you who take issue with him so passionately show more social fault and defect than he does.

I think that Slowpoke is harmless, and has contributed a lot to this forum. He may not have contributed things of a certain level of quality, but by his presence Scrolls is what it is, because a community is made up by its posters.

I'll tell you what diminishes a community. Division and hatred. And that's all a lot of you have begun to show recently. I'm ashamed of what Scrolls is becoming, not because of people like Slowpoke, but because of those who can't see past basic differences, and show some humility and compassion to their fellow man. That is what I have learned.
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  #68  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:26 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Bah, a lot of stuff happening while I was away playing Heroes.

Now to be honest Slowpoke can be a bit annoying and talking to him is entirely unproductive, but should I really say he deserves to be banned for mildly annoying me? Especially when there are posters who are so much worse running around?

I can't do that, and so I say let him come back.
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  #69  
Old 05-24-2013, 01:34 AM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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Option 1: Let him return, with severe limitations. No signature, no avatar, and a limit to how many posts he can make every 24 hours. This pool should also include how many threads or how many PM's.

Option 2: Banish him for three months. If he can go three full months without circumventing his banishment, he's proven that he's not an idiot, and should be welcome to return to SoL as a normal member, with all the benefits and obligations that applies to such a person.

Option 3: I heard that the new hard and software for SoL costs money.
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  #70  
Old 05-24-2013, 02:24 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Pros: He's active and makes a metric fuck-ton of threads.
Cons: Most of his threads are too niche to go beyond 10 pages and he's completely socially inept to the point that I honestly don't trust him around 90% of the forums.

No seriously, Xilizhra is less of a threat to others because she understands the difference between right and wrong inhibitions and when to seek help. SPK doesn't, and it scares the living shit out of me when it comes to our membership. Come the day SPK lets his obsessions focus on a single member (for whatever reason that is), I have no doubt that a legal injunction will occur regarding his stalking that member. And I also have no doubt that it won't stop him because he has no damn clue about where you draw a line on such behaviors. Does that make me a paranoid fuck, maybe. Should I still assure that this forum remains safe for its membership? Yes.

And now you know why I sought to remove him.
So why exactly is Slow a threat? Maybe I don't get it because I don't have the same interests as Slow and therefore don't read many of the threads where he posts, but what exactly makes him a creepy stalker?
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  #71  
Old 05-24-2013, 03:46 AM
HoodedMan HoodedMan is offline

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Can we keep the Halls please?
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  #72  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:24 AM
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To the people asking for a second chance for Slowpoke, I have to ask you... Are you serious? What forum have you been frequenting for the last few years? Did you think before posting this? Did you stop and look back at all the second chances and fair warnings he's been given? Did it teach him anything or change him in some way?

No, it did not. Slowpoke is like the Immovable Object. Wait, no, that analogy is wrong, it implies he's a passive factor. He's more like the Unstoppable Force. He's refused to learn, change, reform, improve or abide by the rules in any way, form or capacity. And he'll keep refusing to learn, change, reform, improve or abide by the rules if they let him stay (and at this point I have no doubt that they will). Slowpoke will never change on his own, people. I can't emphasize enough this bit. And it is an important bit. He will NOT change ON HIS OWN, unless he's kept under close watch. I remember him as the creepy guy with the Tyrande/Sylvanas hard-on when I first joined SoL. Then it was random Chinese actresses no one has ever heard about, now it's Liv Tylor, tomorrow God knows what. Trust me, he will not stop doing this EVER. Unless he's moderated, then it'll be more making 100 posts per day, it'll be more opening threads about murder cases from 60 years ago that no one cares to discuss, it'll be more shitty fan-made trailers and it'll be more god-awful fanfic crossovers over and over and over and over again. The Slowpoke never stops, people. Mark my words, the Slowpoke DOES.NOT.STOP!

Also, it seems that the people who want him to stay are prevailing in the poll. Good job, folks! Expect him to bring up how "many people" wanted him to stay, wave it around and shove it in our collective faces for 10 pages straight as his only and biggest argument (because he doesn't have any other good arguments really) next time someone opens their mouth against him. Good fucking job!

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But nah, let's treat him like an idiot because we are internet tough guys.
You're completely missing the point, aren't you? Tell me this -- Have you ever seen me deliberately shitting on any of the regular posters here on SoL other than Slowpoke (and on rare occasions Fojar)? Anyone, really? No? Wanna guess why? Could it be because I'm not the type of guy who goes out of his way to insult other people for no real reason other than being a dick for the sake of it? Could it be because I only do it when someone has provoked my hate with their behavior and not just because I like doing it?

Point being, I'm not doing it to feel like a big tough Internet guy who bullies adorable defenseless little Slowpoke, but because he has given me very real reasons to hate him.

But whatever, at this points it's clear Slowpoke is staying. I just hope the authority make a wise judgment and enforce some real moderation on him this time and don't let him be without cinsequences for his systematic disregard of the rules and repeated abuse of the commonly accepted social behavior on SoL.

Last edited by Gortrash; 05-24-2013 at 04:34 AM..
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  #73  
Old 05-24-2013, 04:56 AM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I'm not exactly a fan of his. He does a lot of misled and generally creepy stuff. If even I feel awkward around him, you know he's weird.

This said, I think he should be allowed to stay. The original ban was an overreaction and yes, he did circumvent the ban multiple times but let me ask you one thing. If someone is unrightfully imprisoned, then escapes and then is found not guilty, will he still be imprisoned for escaping his (unrightful) imprisonment? I mean, it's possible he would in some countries, but he shouldn't be is what I'm saying. By that logic, I feel he should be forgiven for that.
Until the point he breaks everyone's toleration limits again, which I'm convinced will happen one day, but let's not go Minority Report on his ass.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:02 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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I'd love to see SPK gone.

I had never in my entire life ignored anyone on the internet, be it in a game or on a forum, until I started posting here. And that's thanks to SPK's unrelenting and unbreakable case of fullblown retard, along with the stuff other people have mentioned. There's no way he'll compromise and change if given the chance. It's been proven before.
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Old 05-24-2013, 05:06 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
You're completely missing the point, aren't you? Tell me this -- Have you ever seen me deliberately shitting on any of the regular posters here on SoL other than Slowpoke (and on rare occasions Fojar)? Anyone, really? No? Wanna guess why? Could it be because I'm not the type of guy who goes out of his way to insult other people for no real reason other than being a dick for the sake of it? Could it be because I only do it when someone has provoked my hate with their behavior and not just because I like doing it?
Fair enough.
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