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  #26  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:50 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I doubt many Horde players of the get-angry kind want filthy Alliance as followers.
By all indications the grand majority of Cenarions are fully neutral, to the point of giving no shits about their non-neutral night elven brethren. So it wouldn't have been out of the question for Blizzard to make Thisalee a neutral follower.
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.

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  #27  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:56 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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  #28  
Old 12-14-2014, 06:58 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
By all indications the grand majority Cenarions are fully neutral, to the point of giving no shits about their non-neutral night elven brethren. So it wouldn't have been out of the question for Blizzard to make Thisalee a neutral follower.
Given that there have been no less than four neutral reputations that joined the alliance, just making the cenarion circle join the alliance off-screen wouldn't have been that odd either.

If you're wondering which four: Shen'dralar, Violet Eye, Kirin Tor and Aldor



Y'know, we still don't talk about the weirdness of the shen'dralar joining the alliance enough. You'd think that the arcane-addicted remnants of the highborne would go for the elven group descendant from their culture and capable of sating their addiction.
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2014, 07:13 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Y'know, we still don't talk about the weirdness of the shen'dralar joining the alliance enough. You'd think that the arcane-addicted remnants of the highborne would go for the elven group descendant from their culture and capable of sating their addiction.
Because they have more in common with the night elves, culturally, then the Blood Elves? And it's probably the same reason as why Azshara still "loves" her former subjects despite her being a naga.

And besides, how else are you going to show your former tormetors the error of their ways when it comes to magic?

How about the weirdness of AU-Rexxar saying "For the Horde"?
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2014, 07:21 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Because they have more in common with the night elves, culturally, then the Blood Elves?
The blood/high elves developed for ten thousand years while embracing highborne culture. The night elves developed for ten thousand years while rejecting highborne culture.
The blood elves and shendra'lar both have a history of draining magic from demons, built a large magical city around a powerful source of magic rejected by the night elves, are ruled by a class of nobles, are invested in the study of arcane magics, which is carried out by guys with the title "magisters". We even know of a highborne who lived in Dalaran.

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And it's probably the same reason as why Azshara still "loves" her former subjects despite her being a naga.
Given the assistance they lent to the blood elves in WCIII, even before the BE became useful, it's quite likely that Azshara's "love" extends to the former subjects that had an extreme makeover.

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And besides, how else are you going to show your former tormetors the error of their ways when it comes to magic?
Is that really going to have a higher priority than "OM NOM NOM, GOODY SUN WELL ENERGIES"?

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How about the weirdness of AU-Rexxar saying "For the Horde"?
Yeah, I don't even know what the heck. There's a number of cases where such things occur, with AU horde questing characters showing a loyalty to the horde or a hostility to the alliance that makes no sense in universe. The biggest example would probably be the player needing to vouch for Khadgar, despite the fact that the only interaction with the guy the frostwolves had up to that point was him helping them.
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  #31  
Old 12-14-2014, 07:53 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
The blood/high elves developed for ten thousand years while embracing highborne culture. The night elves developed for ten thousand years while rejecting highborne culture.
The blood elves and shendra'lar both have a history of draining magic from demons, built a large magical city around a powerful source of magic rejected by the night elves, are ruled by a class of nobles, are invested in the study of arcane magics, which is carried out by guys with the title "magisters". We even know of a highborne who lived in Dalaran.
Some points may be true, but also keep in mind that the Highborne still worshipped the Moon, while the High elves worshipped the Sun. The Highborne also retained their night elven looks while the high elves turned completely different.

And lastly, according to some sources in lore, the night elves have some issues with non-night elven races, and since the Highborne were isolated all of those years while the rest of the night elves have become more open, they would've retained some of those faults, so they would be more open to going back to what they knew rather then going out to some smaller and pinker desecendants.

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Given the assistance they lent to the blood elves in WCIII, even before the BE became useful, it's quite likely that Azshara's "love" extends to the former subjects that had an extreme makeover.
Maybe, but what we know for sure is that she still wants the night elves to realize the error of their ways and rejoin her. Nothing has been mentioned of the high elves.
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  #32  
Old 12-14-2014, 08:00 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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This is why we need an Azshara expansion because it would be elves all day every day.
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  #33  
Old 12-14-2014, 08:17 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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how come the horde can get a kirin tor high elf follower
People havent listened to Jaina from vanilla to MoP. What makes you think its gonna change now?
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  #34  
Old 12-14-2014, 08:24 PM
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elves all day every day.
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  #35  
Old 12-14-2014, 08:54 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
Given that there have been no less than four neutral reputations that joined the alliance, just making the cenarion circle join the alliance off-screen wouldn't have been that odd either.

If you're wondering which four: Shen'dralar, Violet Eye, Kirin Tor and Aldor



Y'know, we still don't talk about the weirdness of the shen'dralar joining the alliance enough. You'd think that the arcane-addicted remnants of the highborne would go for the elven group descendant from their culture and capable of sating their addiction.
The Cenarion Circle is still neutral, however, no matter how much Blizzard wants to paint it was Alliance-relevant. Malfurion has done little for the Alliance beyond bug Varian to bring the worgen in, and that's about it. Beyond that, remember that Li Li story in which a nelf druid sinks an Alliance ship for the sake of a tauren druid? Or however it went.

Violet Eye is a subgroup of the Kirin Tor, and we've all seen that the Kirin Tor didn't stay Alliance for more than three consecutive patches.

You got me on the Aldor, in as much as we can ever characterize the Draenei as being Alliance-leaning.

Chances are the Shendralar joined because of physical appearance at least as much as culture, especially given that Moonwells are implied to have mana-addiction-easing qualities. Plus, we've all seen the blood elf attitude toward them in Azshara, which amounts to "hah hah, they're such backwards fucks"... the same way an American engineer would consider a group of engineers from the Roman Empire.
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The Alliance's three rules on faction conflict:
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2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.

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  #36  
Old 12-14-2014, 09:12 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
The Cenarion Circle is still neutral, however, no matter how much Blizzard wants to paint it was Alliance-relevant. Malfurion has done little for the Alliance beyond bug Varian to bring the worgen in, and that's about it. Beyond that, remember that Li Li story in which a nelf druid sinks an Alliance ship for the sake of a tauren druid? Or however it went.
The cenarion circle grew the night elf starting zone and brought in one playable race.

That aside, the aldor never did anything with the alliance, the Shendra'lar were defined by their rejection of an alliance race, and the Kirin Tor was expressly trying to reach out to the horde despite its local elven covenant's objection. Yet, all of 'em ended up in the alliance.

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Violet Eye is a subgroup of the Kirin Tor, and we've all seen that the Kirin Tor didn't stay Alliance for more than three consecutive patches.
A single character is willing to work with both factions. Obvious neutral faction is obvious. (also, I was going by rep factions, and am just bitter rep grinds don't mean nothing.)

You know, if you're gonna work by that logic, you should rage at the explorer's league more often. By this point, I've spent more time aiding them on my horde main than I did helping the tauren.

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You got me on the Aldor, in as much as we can ever characterize the Draenei as being Alliance-leaning.
Meh.

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Chances are the Shendralar joined because of physical appearance at least as much as culture,
Fair.

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especially given that Moonwells are implied to have mana-addiction-easing qualities.
Wasn't that mostly in the RPG? I seem to remember the NE not taking nicely to even their allies tapping into the wells' power in there.

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Plus, we've all seen the blood elf attitude toward them in Azshara, which amounts to "hah hah, they're such backwards fucks"... the same way an American engineer would consider a group of engineers from the Roman Empire.
Ah right, I loved that. It's especially fun because in vanilla, such a big deal was made over how magically powerful the shen'dralar were.
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  #37  
Old 12-14-2014, 09:50 PM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Because they have more in common with the night elves, culturally, then the Blood Elves? And it's probably the same reason as why Azshara still "loves" her former subjects despite her being a naga.

And besides, how else are you going to show your former tormetors the error of their ways when it comes to magic?

How about the weirdness of AU-Rexxar saying "For the Horde"?
You ever do Horde questing in Azshara? There are a few quests there that would answer why exactly the Highborne wouldn't want to join the Horde.
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  #38  
Old 12-14-2014, 11:11 PM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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There's something else. We're at the third fraction thread and yet it's still not using a proper number in its thread title.

It's like the spam thread all over again.
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  #39  
Old 12-15-2014, 12:08 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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MFW another person with a Blood Elf avatar comes in to drop the bombs on that OP.

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  #40  
Old 12-15-2014, 12:43 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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This is why we need an Azshara expansion because it would be Trolls all day every day.
Night Elves = Elune-mutated Dark Trolls
Naga = Old God-mutated, Elune-mutated Dark Trolls
High Elf = Sun Well-mutated, Elune-mutated Dark Trolls
Blood Elf = Fel-mutated, Sun Well-mutated, Elune-mutated Dark Trolls
Fel Blood Elf = Demon Blood-mutated, Sun Well-mutated, Elune-mutated Dark Trolls



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I know this a bitching thread but why bother tattling on shitty stuff shitty posters say on shitty forums (SF, MMO, etc) here?

In any case, I wouldn't be worried about Blizzard offing Jaina. Didn't a bunch of feminist SJW's jumped to her defense regarding a text in Beta about her being crazy? We all know how Blizzard is chickenshit when it comes to them.
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  #41  
Old 12-15-2014, 01:32 AM
Arashi Arashi is offline

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Blizzard definitely is chickenshit.
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  #42  
Old 12-15-2014, 01:46 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Kerrigan walks around naked. No problem.
Barbarian chick walks around in a plate bikini. No problem.
Jaina shows her belly button. No problem.
Sylvanas shows her belly button. COVER THAT SHIT!

Blizzard-feminist logic at it's finest.
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  #43  
Old 12-15-2014, 03:47 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Kerrigan walks around naked. No problem.
Barbarian chick walks around in a plate bikini. No problem.
Jaina shows her belly button. No problem.
Sylvanas shows her belly button. COVER THAT SHIT!

Blizzard-feminist logic at it's finest.
They actually have problems with those too. You know why Blizzard games don't say bitch anymore right?
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2014, 05:09 AM
Thunderbraid Thunderbraid is offline

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Bwhahaha, reading that thread again.....

"AND IT IS GLORIOUS!"

Lenneth is a fucking tool.

Thunderbraid, my Kinsman, why do you engage with such bullshit?
it provides me with morbid amusement
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2014, 06:16 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Arashi View Post
There's something else. We're at the third fraction thread and yet it's still not using a proper number in its thread title.

It's like the spam thread all over again.
Why did the roman numerals not count as "proper numbers"? So that we needed the three horizontal lines instead?
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2014, 06:44 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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it provides me with morbid amusement
Touche.
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  #47  
Old 12-15-2014, 07:08 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by ijffdrie View Post
The cenarion circle grew the night elf starting zone and brought in one playable race.

That aside, the aldor never did anything with the alliance, the Shendra'lar were defined by their rejection of an alliance race, and the Kirin Tor was expressly trying to reach out to the horde despite its local elven covenant's objection. Yet, all of 'em ended up in the alliance.
The difference between the Aldor and the draenei as a whole was rather small and arguably contrived, I'd say. You do have a point with the latter two, though...

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A single character is willing to work with both factions. Obvious neutral faction is obvious. (also, I was going by rep factions, and am just bitter rep grinds don't mean nothing.)
... it's more than just Khadgar, you know. There's Magister Krelas, and the various other NPCs in the various Kirin Tor bases around, though thankfully not Archmage Modera (if WoWhead is correct).

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You know, if you're gonna work by that logic, you should rage at the explorer's league more often. By this point, I've spent more time aiding them on my horde main than I did helping the tauren.
I should, I suppose.

Accursed Explorer's League, stop working with the Horde! They killed you all the time in vanilla, and then the blood elves ripped you off and started killing you all again in Cataclysm!

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Wasn't that mostly in the RPG? I seem to remember the NE not taking nicely to even their allies tapping into the wells' power in there.
It wasn't implied in the RPG, but was stated. But I do think the lore implications remain, even if it's not officially supported.

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Ah right, I loved that. It's especially fun because in vanilla, such a big deal was made over how magically powerful the shen'dralar were.
Horde bias!

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They actually have problems with those too. You know why Blizzard games don't say bitch anymore right?
I'd figure it's because their own forums ban you for saying goddamn. :|

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Why did the roman numerals not count as "proper numbers"? So that we needed the three horizontal lines instead?
That's the Japanese kanji for the number three.
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The Alliance's three rules on faction conflict:
1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.

Last edited by Millenia; 12-15-2014 at 07:16 AM..
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  #48  
Old 12-15-2014, 07:27 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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That's the Japanese kanji for the number three.
Pfff. Anime.
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  #49  
Old 12-15-2014, 08:08 AM
Arterius Arterius is offline

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Never forget WC2-era Genn.
WTB Warcraft RPG Genn.

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"Damn the orcs, damn the Alliance, and damn you! The last thing Gilneas needs is sponges from other nations drawing from our resources, Dalaran wizards meddling with our affairs, and someone else's enemies killing our soldiers! Gilneas is its own nation and it always will be. This is the last time I'll ever talk to you, Terenas, so I hope you were listening."
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:33 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
The difference between the Aldor and the draenei as a whole was rather small and arguably contrived, I'd say.
As opposed to the difference between the Cenarion Circle and the Darnassians?

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You do have a point with the latter two, though...
Woo!

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... it's more than just Khadgar, you know. There's Magister Krelas, and the various other NPCs in the various Kirin Tor bases around, though thankfully not Archmage Modera (if WoWhead is correct).
Khadgar is the only one actively reaching out. If you're going to argue that 'not willing to tolerate an individual visitor' is necessary to be a proper faction member, I'm pretty sure that both factions will be reduced to about ten guys each.

I just don't get what the big deal is. Horde questing has always involved a lot more interaction with the other faction, both friendly and hostile. You're given quests by ghosts in Westfall, settlers in Dustwallow and archaeologists in Terrokar. If there's a job to be done, and a passing adventurer willing to help, you ain't gonna complain about his race.
This is especially true for the Kirin Tor, which employed tons upon tons of horde adventurers in WotLK and TBC, and fought alongside horde adventurers in Ulduar. There's a pretty good track record there.

As for Krelas; he's a BE. Chances are pretty dang good that he's got all his friends and family horde-side. Why wouldn't he want to hang around the garrison? It's not like there's anything you can let your followers do that's against the interests of the Kirin Tor.

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I should, I suppose.

Accursed Explorer's League, stop working with the Horde! They killed you all the time in vanilla, and then the blood elves ripped you off and started killing you all again in Cataclysm!
You know, I never actually did the quests where they clashed. What exactly was the beef between them?

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It wasn't implied in the RPG, but was stated. But I do think the lore implications remain, even if it's not officially supported.
That still leaves the issue of 'sacred place, not for sucky-sucky mana'.

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Horde bias!
The Shendra'lar are my favourite example of the utter insanity of vanilla.
With no explanation, there was suddenly a group of highborne around on Kalimdor, abusing the hell out demon power for the past ten thousand years. And the night elves, which banned the other groups of highborne for wielding less dark magics than that, just didn't give a damn.
One second, the Shendra'lar were isolationist, murderous fanatics. The next second, they had access to tomes all over the world, had members in the Kirin Tor and knew where Ashbringer was hidden. They were the most revered arcanists of Azshara, and yet she never bothered to contact them. They were infused with fel magic for ten thousand years and partook in dark sacrificial rituals, but somehow are not corrupted in any way. They're villains whose plans for immortality we are trying to destroy, but players of both factions are entirely willing to work with them.
I'd love to see the design notes for these guys.

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I'd figure it's because their own forums ban you for saying goddamn. :|
Gosh darn it to heck, I've had it with this mother-hugging bull dropping.
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