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  #26  
Old 07-18-2016, 02:37 AM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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legit can't wait to see how many people get triggered by this video, assuming anyone even watches it
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  #27  
Old 07-18-2016, 04:42 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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I think he called them "bug chasers" in the past
When HIV... is in your neighborhood... Who you gonna call?

BUGCHASERS!

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so maybe his beef is with the conspiracy which holds that all gay men are actively trying to spread HIV/AIDS to bring down western civilization?
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  #28  
Old 07-18-2016, 05:04 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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If you need divine punishment from an imaginary friend in the sky to be a decent person, I tend to consider that you are not, in fact, a decent person. Just saying.
Well sure. You'd inly have imperfect contrition.
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  #29  
Old 07-18-2016, 10:31 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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A nice oversight of religious history made by one Simon E. Davies. I got it off a discussion for a civilization IV mod.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:39 AM
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Fucking people who make graphs and don't line keys up properly.
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  #31  
Old 07-18-2016, 12:14 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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About the atheist hate of gays, I suppose one could hate gays for a civic reason. Mostly for shirking childrearing and for upsetting public unity with their unorthodox way of life. Though of course if you wanna go that way feminism (and masculism, I guess) would be a much greater enemy.
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  #32  
Old 07-18-2016, 05:13 PM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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About the atheist hate of gays, I suppose one could hate gays for a civic reason. Mostly for shirking childrearing and for upsetting public unity with their unorthodox way of life. Though of course if you wanna go that way feminism (and masculism, I guess) would be a much greater enemy.
the only reason I've seen given before has been that faggots are complete and utter degenerates who can't hold stable relationships worth shit and they need to routinely fuck other men up the ass and their only "culture" is about being as degenerate and disease ridden as possible.

Less about gays themselves and more about "gay culture".

Srry for being pissy today, I'm in a shit mood.

-----
They got the Golden dawn sign wrong.
That symbol that they used is the symbol of the Greek Neo Nazi Golden Dawn Party.

This is the original symbol of the Golden Dawn, The Rosy Cross.


---
Also there doesn't appear to be any Satanism on there either.
They have fucking Scientology on there but not Satanism.

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  #33  
Old 07-18-2016, 10:38 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I don't know if I consider Satanism trolling, or just larping.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

A religion, but with no supernatural beliefs. Except they have magic. But it's not magic; it's psychology. And that's not me making fun of their definition of magic - that actually is the definition?

Kind of reminds me of Galdus, with the rejection of egalitarianism and support for social darwinism and eugenics.

Founder is so edgy he grows a menacing beard, poses with a snake, and scowls.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...aVey_photo.jpg

Current "high priest" isn't nearly as edgy but tries to look more like a supervillain, with the fun twisty mustache.

http://whale.to/c/gzfxtl1hgilmore.jpg

I know they make statues for things they don't believe and pretend to have prayer-like rituals.

Maybe it's a combination of trolling and larping, all together?
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  #34  
Old 07-18-2016, 10:50 PM
Shekinah Shekinah is offline

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It seems to be more philosophical with silly things thrown in for good measure. Not quite as bad as the schmuckheads who worship Satan and perform sacrifices and all that jazz.
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  #35  
Old 07-18-2016, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
I don't know if I consider Satanism trolling, or just larping.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

A religion, but with no supernatural beliefs. Except they have magic. But it's not magic; it's psychology. And that's not me making fun of their definition of magic - that actually is the definition?

Kind of reminds me of Galdus, with the rejection of egalitarianism and support for social darwinism and eugenics.

Founder is so edgy he grows a menacing beard, poses with a snake, and scowls.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...aVey_photo.jpg

Current "high priest" isn't nearly as edgy but tries to look more like a supervillain, with the fun twisty mustache.

http://whale.to/c/gzfxtl1hgilmore.jpg

I know they make statues for things they don't believe and pretend to have prayer-like rituals.

Maybe it's a combination of trolling and larping, all together?
There are two forms of Satanism, theistic and nontheistic satanism.

Nontheistic Satanism is more like a form of cultural protest or culture jamming; the Satanic Temple is the most well-known nontheistic Satanic group. What they do is promote "Satanism" as a religion in places in American civics and secular law and life where it doesn't belong, the logic being that if religion (usually Christianity) is enshrined, equal treatment must be given to Satanism as a bona-fide religion with centuries of history (as opposed to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who is a recent invention that can be dismissed as a fan, we have civic and church documents accusing people of being Satan worshipers so it must be real). Some of the famous things the Temple has done is erect a statue of Baphomet to protest a courthouse having a statue of the ten commandments, giving out Satanic coloring books in public schools that also give out bibles, and leading town meetings with Satanic invocations when they also have Christian prayers. Anyone who argues that their actions are inappropriate must either agree that all religious activities in civic spaces are inappropriate, or face their own hypocrisy.

LeVayan Satanism/"The Left Hand Path" is just edgy teenager stuff that was created during the spiritual renaissance that gave us stuff like Wicca, Spiritualism and Astatru and has no established connections to Nontheistic Satanism like the Temple of Satan. Scripturally, LeVayan Satanism actually has a shitload of connections to Randian Objectivism, which fits as only shitty teenagers and idiots like her works.
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  #36  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:52 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
There are two forms of Satanism, theistic and nontheistic satanism.

Nontheistic Satanism is more like a form of cultural protest or culture jamming; the Satanic Temple is the most well-known nontheistic Satanic group. What they do is promote "Satanism" as a religion in places in American civics and secular law and life where it doesn't belong, the logic being that if religion (usually Christianity) is enshrined, equal treatment must be given to Satanism as a bona-fide religion with centuries of history (as opposed to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, who is a recent invention that can be dismissed as a fan, we have civic and church documents accusing people of being Satan worshipers so it must be real). Some of the famous things the Temple has done is erect a statue of Baphomet to protest a courthouse having a statue of the ten commandments, giving out Satanic coloring books in public schools that also give out bibles, and leading town meetings with Satanic invocations when they also have Christian prayers. Anyone who argues that their actions are inappropriate must either agree that all religious activities in civic spaces are inappropriate, or face their own hypocrisy.

LeVayan Satanism/"The Left Hand Path" is just edgy teenager stuff that was created during the spiritual renaissance that gave us stuff like Wicca, Spiritualism and Astatru and has no established connections to Nontheistic Satanism like the Temple of Satan. Scripturally, LeVayan Satanism actually has a shitload of connections to Randian Objectivism, which fits as only shitty teenagers and idiots like her works.
It feels like you respect the former more than the latter. They both just look like groups that pretend to have religious believes so they can do Flying Spaghetti Monster things.

EDIT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple

Satanic Temple was founded two years ago? That makes the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion older by almost a decade.

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  #37  
Old 07-19-2016, 06:59 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Almost all religions pre-Christianity and up to the Modern Age share a multitude of similarities, most religion is rooted in the worship of the sun and the passing of the seasons. It is an expression of humanity attempting to comprehend the system that grants it life, sans science.

The concept of the "messiah" is irrevocably linked to the death and rebirth of the sun during the winter solstice, as is the endless repetition of prophecies heralding the doom and salvation of the world at the hand of said sun by going away and coming back.

The details vary, the symbolic root is always there.
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  #38  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:01 AM
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To be honest, Mormonism pisses me off more than Satanism. At least Satanism is relatively honest about its silliness.

Mormonism, on the other hand, is a Very Serious Religion that was founded by a known con artist who made up a bunch of nonsense with his drinking buddies and passed it off as gospel. It's literally the Scientology of the 19th century.
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  #39  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:03 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Mormonism is fine.
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  #40  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:09 AM
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[Insert religion here], on the other hand, is a Very Serious Religion that was founded by a known con artist who made up a bunch of nonsense with his drinking buddies and passed it off as gospel.
Ye Holy Buy Bull.
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  #41  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:33 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Maybe it's a combination of trolling and larping, all together?
That's how I imagine pretty much every single organized religion came to be, and then with time it just got out of hand. In a few hundred years the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion will probably be recognized as a legit thing, unless it fizzles out before then.
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  #42  
Old 07-19-2016, 08:20 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
It feels like you respect the former more than the latter. They both just look like groups that pretend to have religious believes so they can do Flying Spaghetti Monster things.

EDIT: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Temple

Satanic Temple was founded two years ago? That makes the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion older by almost a decade.
Meh, LeVeyan Satanism is atheistic Satanism, as is the Satanic Temple.
The term "Left Hand Path" is really more of a catch all for all forms of magic practiced which tend to use "demons" in them and such.

The Temple of Set originally was a part of LeVeyan Satanism but left because of this issues concerning spirituality. It used to regard itself as a form of Satanism but at this point it doesn't really.

Likewise there's also the Order of Phosphorus.

Most are also rather aware of the O9A

Spiritual Satanism can't really be pinned down to one doctrine (similiar to Neo-Paganism in that respect) but it is rather a collection of different belief structures centered around Satan, "Adversarial deities" or black magic

I don't really care for LaVeyans nor Atheistic Satanism in general largely because they come across as edgy atheists.
That being said I tend to lurk around the Spiritual Satanism circles so that shouldn't be surprising...
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  #43  
Old 07-19-2016, 08:41 AM
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Mormonism is fine.
I can't fault Mormons. I understand that by and large they tend to be good people, now that they've got the polygamy thing out of their system. But I was struck by how ridiculous it was that anyone bought into Joseph Smith's clearly self-serving bullshit back when I was studying American History at high school.
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And the HRE was a meme that went too far.
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You are pretty cool for being one of the bad guys.
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I was probably just upset about the Horde fleet in the Second War.
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  #44  
Old 07-19-2016, 09:23 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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That's how I imagine pretty much every single organized religion came to be, and then with time it just got out of hand. In a few hundred years the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion will probably be recognized as a legit thing, unless it fizzles out before then.
I'm with you halfway. You can ask the question, "Did the ancient world write any fictional stories, for entertainment?" And you'll reflect on whether folks like Gilgamesh, Odysseus, Hercules, King Arthur, and Robin Hood were entirely fictional or based on an actual person whose stories got inflated. Future generations may ask the same of people like Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernell, Batman, or Mr. T. I can see that crossing over to supernatural beliefs.

But we can also look at relative newcomers like Christianity and Islam, with very real founders who had serious believers from their lifetimes onward (from my understanding the historicity of Jesus existing isn't a serious question anymore, even among atheist scholars).
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:03 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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Anyone who argues that their actions are inappropriate must either agree that all religious activities in civic spaces are inappropriate, or face their own hypocrisy.
That's the crux of it right there.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:12 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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That's the crux of it right there.
I'm not sure it's hypocritical if one of them is a belief system while the other is a self-described satire of belief systems.

I'm not convinced satire counts as religion, at least in any of the organizations that exist thus far.

EDIT: Of course, I also don't think religion deserves more rights than nonreligious beliefs. That's a fight I support, not fake religions screwing around.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-19-2016 at 10:18 AM..
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  #47  
Old 07-19-2016, 10:59 AM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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I'm not sure it's hypocritical if one of them is a belief system while the other is a self-described satire of belief systems.

I'm not convinced satire counts as religion, at least in any of the organizations that exist thus far.

EDIT: Of course, I also don't think religion deserves more rights than nonreligious beliefs. That's a fight I support, not fake religions screwing around.
So religious satire is inappropriate in public spaces but regular religious activities are fine? I don't think that's fair in a country that enshrines free speech and free religion.
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  #48  
Old 07-19-2016, 11:35 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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I'm with you halfway. You can ask the question, "Did the ancient world write any fictional stories, for entertainment?" And you'll reflect on whether folks like Gilgamesh, Odysseus, Hercules, King Arthur, and Robin Hood were entirely fictional or based on an actual person whose stories got inflated. Future generations may ask the same of people like Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernell, Batman, or Mr. T. I can see that crossing over to supernatural beliefs.

But we can also look at relative newcomers like Christianity and Islam, with very real founders who had serious believers from their lifetimes onward (from my understanding the historicity of Jesus existing isn't a serious question anymore, even among atheist scholars).
What historical documents are there about Jesus? I recall there might be a record of him on a census list somewhere and maybe a record of his execution? Basically all we know of Jesus (and I guess to a slightly lesser extent Muhammad) came from their followers and is appropriately awe inspiring.

Meanwhile unless something horribly catastrophic happens we will have plenty of records of Mr. T or whomever, in fact we've probably left so many records and other traces that even if shit hits the fan archeologists of the future will be able to learn a lot about our culture for many thousands of years.
Any remotely famous person will have way too much stuff about them to be claimed divine.

Conversely a total anon (not an easy concept in the time of social media networking) could maybe become a religion founder if he was low key today and by the time his religion caught steam there would be no records and no one alive to dispute his divine claims... but again in our world that sounds far fetched already.

So I don't think many if any from our time will be super-magical in the future That said though, I do find the question of who will be mega-famous in the future intriguing. And related to that, what will people think of the famous people of today and even our culture as a whole.

My first guess is Elon Musk, if he makes electric cars and solar power a thing way way before anyone thought they might be a thing and gets people to Mars he could be the godfather of the future way of life. He could be Jesus or at least Newton big... or he could fail and be forgot or even succeed and join a long line of forgotten geniuses.
An interesting idea I've heard is that people of the future might come to see someone like Osama bin Laden like a tragic hero figure. Before you scoff at the idea, think how people of Rome would have thought of Spartacus. A horrible butcher who is destroying their way of life and today... And y'know I could see it, especially if islam continues to gain power.
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  #49  
Old 07-19-2016, 11:47 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Any remotely famous person will have way too much stuff about them to be claimed divine.
Haile Selassie I? He made it into the 70s and is regarded as divine by the rastafari.
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Old 07-19-2016, 12:19 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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So religious satire is inappropriate in public spaces but regular religious activities are fine? I don't think that's fair in a country that enshrines free speech and free religion.
No, sorry about that. My edit was too late. I think nonreligious free speech is fine and deserves as much right as religious speech. In terms of how the government treats it.

In my own personal opinion, religious satire wastes time in fake ceremonies and monster statues, when they could put their efforts to things that would gain them more respect.

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Originally Posted by C9H20 View Post
What historical documents are there about Jesus? I recall there might be a record of him on a census list somewhere and maybe a record of his execution? Basically all we know of Jesus (and I guess to a slightly lesser extent Muhammad) came from their followers and is appropriately awe inspiring.

Meanwhile unless something horribly catastrophic happens we will have plenty of records of Mr. T or whomever, in fact we've probably left so many records and other traces that even if shit hits the fan archeologists of the future will be able to learn a lot about our culture for many thousands of years.
Any remotely famous person will have way too much stuff about them to be claimed divine.

Conversely a total anon (not an easy concept in the time of social media networking) could maybe become a religion founder if he was low key today and by the time his religion caught steam there would be no records and no one alive to dispute his divine claims... but again in our world that sounds far fetched already.

So I don't think many if any from our time will be super-magical in the future That said though, I do find the question of who will be mega-famous in the future intriguing. And related to that, what will people think of the famous people of today and even our culture as a whole.

My first guess is Elon Musk, if he makes electric cars and solar power a thing way way before anyone thought they might be a thing and gets people to Mars he could be the godfather of the future way of life. He could be Jesus or at least Newton big... or he could fail and be forgot or even succeed and join a long line of forgotten geniuses.
An interesting idea I've heard is that people of the future might come to see someone like Osama bin Laden like a tragic hero figure. Before you scoff at the idea, think how people of Rome would have thought of Spartacus. A horrible butcher who is destroying their way of life and today... And y'know I could see it, especially if islam continues to gain power.
Example: I've read a Harry Turtledove story about a post-apocalyptic America that had a nuclear war in the late '60s, and the story is over a hundred years later. People remember Annie Oakley as Little Orphan Annie, who robbed trains with Jesse James. She was arrested but got off because she married Judge Warbucks. I can envision that kind of stuff.

Thousands of years ago, people may remember Mr. T. The man who famously said "I pity the fool!" before he KOed Rocky Balboa to become heavyweight boxing champion. (This was back when he had his birth name Clubber Lang - he changed it to Mr. T after converting to Christianity.) He lost the title in a rematch, but fought at the first Wrestlemania in a tag team with Hulk "Thunderlips" Hogan. He retired and became a bodyguard for celebrities.

He had an ongoing feud with "Rowdy" Roddy Piper, who didn't respect him because he didn't start his career as a wrestler and had favors based on his pre-existing fame. He also had some early conflict with Balboa, leading the movement to move the famous "Rocky" statue out of the Philadelphia museum, on the basis that it wasn't really art.

Oh, have you seen the Rocky statue? It was in the park across the street from that museum for about a century, but they moved it to the Smithsonian before it was shut down during the Dark Times . . .

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Haile Selassie I? He made it into the 70s and is regarded as divine by the rastafari.
He gets a challenging start in the Hearts of Iron games.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 07-19-2016 at 12:26 PM..
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