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Old 01-29-2017, 08:37 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Default Warcraft IV Faction Ideas

I have not been very active in the past few months, but I was watching some youtube videos related to Warcraft III, and it made me feel nostalgic. In a hypothetical scenario of Warcraft IV existing, what would be your factions and their unit roster? We are assuming that it takes place post WoW, with the Void Lords as the main antagonists in the campaigns, but also, inter-factional conflict. I am gonna assume, for the purpose of this thread, that there are two different armies for the Alliance and Horde each per continent, and I would like to see a similar type of system such as Warcraft III's, where each faction was fundamentally different, and units rarely had counterparts. The factions could be Human Alliance(Human, Dwarf, Gnome, and Worgen), Night Elf Sentinels(with Draenei), Undead Forsaken(with Blood Elf Allies), and the Orcish Horde.

I'll start with the Human Alliance faction.
Units-
Human Peasants
Human Footmen
Dwarf Rifemen
Human Knight(largest human ground unit, along with the Berserker,and focuses more on defence)
Human Priest
Human Magi
Worgen berserker(has abilities such as cloak, the only stealth unit for the Human Alliance, but is also one of the most powerful ones in the game)
Cannon/Mortar.
Gnomish Siege Tank
Dwarf Gryphon Rider
Human Gunship. Could function in a manner similar to the Protoss Carrier in Starcraft, with Gnomish Gyrocopters acting like the interceptors do.

Heroes-
Human Paladin
Human Archmage
Dwarf Mountain King
Gnome Tinkerer.

Pros- Versatile faction, with a fine balance of everything, allowing for multiple strategies to be used.
Cons- No 'big ground' unit like the Abomination or Tauren. Also, while one can try every strategy with it, it does not excel at any one of them, and good players will have to mix and match, in order to be effective.
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:40 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Good to see you CoD, I like gnomes taking up the space left by the helfs/belfs
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:46 AM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Good to see you CoD, I like gnomes taking up the space left by the helfs/belfs
Good to see you, too, mate.

Just a minor point-High Elves were the magical units in WC3, and I replaced them with Humans, since they too have magical affinity to a great extent. The Gnomes took some of the positions of the Dwarves, focusing on tech. The Carrier is commanded by a Human Admiral, but has gnomish gyrocopters. Fortunately, the Alliance was easy to do, because the races are all very similar in culture and military, but pairing Night Elf with Draenei and Forsaken with Blood Elf would be a bit of a challenge, but I want to make sure that the core factions are the same(Human, Undead, Night Elf, and Orc), and these pairings make the most logical sense lore-wise.

Last edited by CoDimus the Staunch; 01-29-2017 at 08:49 AM..
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Old 01-29-2017, 08:55 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by CoDimus the Staunch View Post
Good to see you, too, mate.

Just a minor point-High Elves were the magical units in WC3, and I replaced them with Humans, since they too have magical affinity to a great extent. The Gnomes took some of the positions of the Dwarves, focusing on tech. The Carrier is commanded by a Human Admiral, but has gnomish gyrocopters. Fortunately, the Alliance was easy to do, because the races are all very similar in culture and military, but pairing Night Elf with Draenei and Forsaken with Blood Elf would be a bit of a challenge, but I want to make sure that the core factions are the same(Human, Undead, Night Elf, and Orc), and these pairings make the most logical sense lore-wise.
One thing to consider is to take some notes from SC2's campaign mode where you could swap in units through upgrades or evolutions and recruiting other forces.

Could build that into the upgrade/tech tree.

IE: You build an addon or district for nelfs or draenei onto the townhall/castle and that enables you to build more distantly related members of the faction or something.
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:13 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Hmm. I think I'll do the Hand of the Prophet faction on Old Draenor.

Basic Units:
Builder: Draenei Commoner. (Draenei.)
Ground:
Draenei Prelate (Infantry unit, Draenei. Heals nearby friendly units when dealing damage)
Rangari Skirmisher (Ranged unit, Draenei. Heals nearby friendly units when dealing damage)
Vigilant (Heavy Infantry unit, mechanical. Deactivates when HP is depleted, but you can sacrifice a draenei unit to reactivate it with the health percentage of the sacrificed unit.)
Outcast Talonpriest (Ranged caster unit, Arakkoa. Dispersion allows them to become invulnerable and regenerate health, but can't deal damage until Dispersion ends.)
Air:
Awakened Skywalker (Flying caster unit, Arakkoa. Repeated attacks on the same target deal progressively more damage.)
Draenei Fey-rider (Flying ranged unit, Draenei. Heals nearby friendly units when dealing damage)

Hero Units:
Draenei Artificer (Infantry, Draenei. Can repair depleted Vigilants. Commoners repair friendly buildings more quickly when the Artificer is alive.)
Draenei Soulbinder (Ranged caster unit, Draenei. Provides a healing aura and can mass resurrect fallen friendly units.)
Awakened Warrior-Sage (Infantry, Arakkoa. Fights on the ground, can fly, but cannot attack while flying.)
Draenei Exarch (Heavy Cavalry, Draenei. Provides a damage aura for enemies, heals nearby units when dealing damage.)

Pros: Very resilient units considering self-healing, mobility, and damage mitigation. Depleted Vigilants obstruct paths if not destroyed, so they present an additional obstacle for an invading force (note that any non-hero Draenei units, including Commoners, can be used to reactivate Vigilants). Can turtle on objectives very effectively.
Cons: Draenei units are expensive and slow to produce. Arakkoa units are less expensive, but lack the synergy with other Draenei units and don't provide strong enough melee. Biggest counter is an early rush of inexpensive, expendable units.
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:37 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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The Kalimdor Protectorate.
An alliance of the Night elves, the Draenei and the High elves.

Builder Unit: Draenei artificer

Basic units:
Elven Archer. Similar to the Elven Archer of War3.
Draenei Lancer. A heavier melee unit with longer melee range.
Bolt Thrower. A cheap siege unit.
Elven Druid(available at tier 2). A basic supporting caster unit.
Hippogryph(available at tier 2)ยด. A cheap flying unit.
Elven Mystic(available at tier 2). a basic offensive caster unit.

The Protectorate relies on upgrading their basic units to stronger tier two and tier three units.
Advanced units:
Elven Arcane Archer (upgraded Elven Archer, equivilant of the Dryad from War3)
Elven Sentinel (upgraded Elven Archer)
Draenei Elekk Exarch (upgraded Draenei lancer, heavy cavalry)
Crystal Thrower (upgraded Bolt Thrower, anti-air splash damage)
Glaive Thrower (upgraded Bolt Thrower, hard hitting demolisher)
Druid of the Wilds(upgraded Elven Druid, supporting caster)
Druid of the Claw(placeholder)(upgraded Elven Druid, versatile melee unit)
Hippogryph Rider(combines Hippogryph and elven archer, versatile flying unit)
Draenei Anchorite(upgraded Elven Mystic, strong non-offensive supporting caster)
Elven Moonguard(upgraded Elven Mystic, strong offensive caster)

Hero units:
Night elf Priestess of the Moon
Draenei Vindicator
High elf High Mage
Night elf Huntress

The idea is to have a flexible and versatile army that can change and adapt to the situation.
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Old 02-01-2017, 01:31 PM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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WoW sucks.
If Warcraft 4 was post WoW then I can't even imagine how THIS would suck.
Vanilla WoW was so so, but rather as alternate storyline, simulator of Azeroth world wandering and nice experiment.
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:09 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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I think the Orc faction should remain mostly unchanged, except for a few things. Mostly because the faction would contain the same races, and the roster's good enough as it was.

Peon
Grunt
Troll Headhunter
Raider
Shaman
Troll Witch-Doctor
Kodo
Troll Bat-Rider
Tauren
Tauren Spirit-Walker
Demolisher
Gunship(unlike the Human Alliance gyrocopter Carrier, it will be a cannon gunship)

Heroes-
Far Seer
Tauren Chieftain
Troll Shadow Hunter
Blade Master

Last edited by CoDimus the Staunch; 02-02-2017 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:20 PM
OnyxWatcher OnyxWatcher is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoDimus the Staunch View Post
I think the Orc faction should remain mostly unchanged, except for a few things. Mostly because the faction would contain the same races, and the roster's good enough as it was.

Peon
Grunt
Troll Headhunter
Raider
Shaman
Troll Witch-Doctor
Kodo
Troll Bat-Rider
Tauren
Tauren Spirit-Walker
Demolisher
Gunship(unlike the Human Alliance gyrocopter Carrier, it will be a cannon gunship)

Heroes-
Far Seer
Tauren Chieftain
Troll Shadow Hunter
Blade Mater
Omg.
Then just play WC3 remake on SC2 engine, you will have your very own Warcraft 4 of your dreams.
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Old 02-02-2017, 01:56 PM
CoDimus the Staunch CoDimus the Staunch is offline

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Omg.
Then just play WC3 remake on SC2 engine, you will have your very own Warcraft 4 of your dreams.
Except I do feel that there should be changes to most of the other factions(for example, the Human faction will not include High Elves anymore, but instead, Gnome and Worgen units), and yet at the same time, there should be similarities as well, and I also feel that 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'. Maybe the Horde roster does need more changes, and perhaps I was a bit timid in my selections of units, but that is primarily because I have never been much of a Horde player, and probably an Orc fan would do better. Which is precisely why we have this thread here.

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Old 02-02-2017, 02:58 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoDimus the Staunch View Post
Except I do feel that there should be changes to most of the other factions(for example, the Human faction will not include High Elves anymore, but instead, Gnome and Worgen units), and yet at the same time, there should be similarities as well, and I also feel that 'if it ain't broken, don't fix it'. Maybe the Horde roster does need more changes, and perhaps I was a bit timid in my selections of units, but that is primarily because I have never been much of a Horde player, and probably an Orc fan would do better. Which is precisely why we have this thread here.
There's something to be said for the notion that the trappings of WC3 (specifically having to express faction identity for multiple member races through a dozen or so basic units and four heroes) might not work for the modern factions expressed in WoW, particularly because they've become much more cosmopolitan.

One way to do it might be to go the route of Commanders in SC2, where you have an iconic hero character (who may be a hero unit on the field or not) and then a selection of buildings, units, and upgrade options that are specific to that commander. Then different commanders that are of the same larger faction have different selections and thus different synergies. Raynor and Swann are both Terran and share some units and buildings, but Swann is much more oriented around vehicle and mechanical units, while Raynor capitalizes more on Marines and other infantry.

That would be a way to still use the trappings of an isometric RTS game, but allow the larger factions (e.g. the Horde, the Alliance, the Scourge, the Legion, the Sentinels, etc.) to have more diverse unit selection without really bloating the unit selection for the player.

To give an example of how this could work here: Thrall as a Horde Commander would probably have a lineup similar to what you have up there, since his Horde utilizes orcs, tauren, and trolls in their specialized roles. Garrosh as a Horde Commander would likely have all of the orc units, but the non-orc units would be replaced in his line-up with other orcish units. To wit:

Peon
Grunt
Goblin Sniper
Kor'rkon Wolfrider (trades out Net for Flamethrower)
Dark Shaman
Mechanized Kodo
Protodrake Rider
Dire Orc
Goblin Engineer
Demolisher
Goblin War Zeppelin

Heroes-
Dire Orc Dominator (Malkorok)
General (Nazgrim)
Goblin Devastator (Iron Juggernaut)
Protodrake Wing Commander (Zaela & Galakras)
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:26 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I wouldnt mind if WC4 followed a moba-ish model akin to the one currently used by SC2.

Similarly to Age of Mythology where you pick a major god and a culture along it, you'd pick a commander and a faction alongside. Like mobas new commanders would be released through time and would be attainable through money and in-game currency (harder to get than moba champions though, given they'd be more expensive to produce).

Since this is WC and generally everyone kicks ass, commanders would always be in field. Also rather than having one story attached to the game, they could produce campaigns as DLC and sell them (like Nova's) based in great WC lore moments such as WC3 campaigns, WotA or whatever rocks their boat even if its silly and non canon (like Hearthstone)

For factions we could start with:

Alliance (Anduin, Tyrande, Jaina)
Horde (Thrall, Sylvanas, Gallywix)
Old Gods (Yogg-Saron, Yshaarj, C'thun)

And then add the Burning Legion faction and Jaina with the Twilight of the Gods campaign remake dlc, add Titanic Watcher faction and N'zoth with a dlc based in Black Empire Azeroth, add the Scourge with an Arthas based dlc, etc.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:35 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post

One way to do it might be to go the route of Commanders in SC2, where you have an iconic hero character (who may be a hero unit on the field or not) and then a selection of buildings, units, and upgrade options that are specific to that commander. Then different commanders that are of the same larger faction have different selections and thus different synergies. Raynor and Swann are both Terran and share some units and buildings, but Swann is much more oriented around vehicle and mechanical units, while Raynor capitalizes more on Marines and other infantry.

That would be a way to still use the trappings of an isometric RTS game, but allow the larger factions (e.g. the Horde, the Alliance, the Scourge, the Legion, the Sentinels, etc.) to have more diverse unit selection without really bloating the unit selection for the player.
)
I actually really like the concept of adapting the commanders format and blending it with the campaign unlockables!

Each commander could also run a different part of the tech tree for the others, like Gazlwe running mechanical unit upgrades and Thrall or Voljin running the caster upgrades
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Old 02-03-2017, 02:26 AM
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I actually really like the concept of adapting the commanders format and blending it with the campaign unlockables!

Each commander could also run a different part of the tech tree for the others, like Gazlwe running mechanical unit upgrades and Thrall or Voljin running the caster upgrades
Reminds me of C&C Generals: Zero Hour.

However, I think the best way to go at it would actually be the Age of Mythology style, with each major commander/major god having a different combination of lesser commanders/lesser gods, with certain lesser commanders being unique to one single major god (say like Hel was unique to Loki in Age of Mythology).

For example, it could go like this. Say we have the Grand Alliance, and they have these three major commanders; High General Turalyon, King Genn Greymane, High Thane Muradin Bronzebeard.

Now say you take Turalyon, who has eight lesser commanders in his roster, and the four you take is Alleria, Kurdran, Khadgar and Danath. This way, you could easily recreate the old school Warcraft II Alliance, with high elven rangers, gryphon riders, mounted paladins and so on. However, if you were to take for example Velen, some naaru, Vindicator Boros and say Alleria, you could create some sort of Army of the Light-esque roster.

Simply put, this way, you could highly customize the factions to your liking. You could customize the night elven faction so it is reminiscent of the old Kaldorei Empire (selecting a combination of elunite and highborne commanders) or so that it is purely a force of nature (selecting a combination of druid and Wild God commanders).
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:40 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Reminds me of C&C Generals: Zero Hour.

However, I think the best way to go at it would actually be the Age of Mythology style, with each major commander/major god having a different combination of lesser commanders/lesser gods, with certain lesser commanders being unique to one single major god (say like Hel was unique to Loki in Age of Mythology).

For example, it could go like this. Say we have the Grand Alliance, and they have these three major commanders; High General Turalyon, King Genn Greymane, High Thane Muradin Bronzebeard.

Now say you take Turalyon, who has eight lesser commanders in his roster, and the four you take is Alleria, Kurdran, Khadgar and Danath. This way, you could easily recreate the old school Warcraft II Alliance, with high elven rangers, gryphon riders, mounted paladins and so on. However, if you were to take for example Velen, some naaru, Vindicator Boros and say Alleria, you could create some sort of Army of the Light-esque roster.

Simply put, this way, you could highly customize the factions to your liking. You could customize the night elven faction so it is reminiscent of the old Kaldorei Empire (selecting a combination of elunite and highborne commanders) or so that it is purely a force of nature (selecting a combination of druid and Wild God commanders).
I really like your idea.

As one of our last warcraft 2-3 gurus, tell me how shit my posted faction army is. I was aiming for something born of the old Sentinels but allowing for variety while adding in strengths that the night elves lacked.
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Old 02-03-2017, 06:23 AM
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Well, the final techtrees would also depend on how the story goes forward as well design goals of the gameplay. Other lore friendly options can be covered by commanders/campaign.

(as for the Age of Mythology solution: while interesting, it somehow doesn't feel like it belongs into a warcraft RTS to me, but that's just my personal opinion)

Anyway, the races can be developed in many different ways. Take the Alliance for example, you can either include or exclude the nightelves, which can add a very strong nature theme to the race and so new possibilities but in turn, the technologic side might be reduced. On the other hand it could allow the horde to expand in this direction using goblins.

Other example are the nightelves as their own faction. Combining them with draenei might clash with the night aspect, but allow new options. On the other hand, combining the worgen into this group would allow you to embrace the night theme even more and focus mechanics around that.

In the end, you don't need to force everything into the playable factions. One feature in my own brainstorming sessions that I enjoy quite a lot is the advanced use of mercenary camps. You can base whole Merc Camps based around neutral factions from WoW like the Argent Crusade or even races you didn't utilize in the playable races.

For example, I have a problem with including Draenei with the Alliance as they don't fit into their "industrial medieval" theme while they clash with the nightelven "nocturnal" theme. But turning them into their own merc camp allows me to embrace their theme and use it fully with a selection of units.

At the same time, I might not utilize bloodelves as part of the playable factions as I dont want to force them into an undead techtree and at the same time they distract a bit from the nightelves. But using the mentioned themed merc camps allows me to circumvent those design problems and still include the bloodelves.
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Old 02-03-2017, 01:57 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
Well, the final techtrees would also depend on how the story goes forward as well design goals of the gameplay. Other lore friendly options can be covered by commanders/campaign.

(as for the Age of Mythology solution: while interesting, it somehow doesn't feel like it belongs into a warcraft RTS to me, but that's just my personal opinion)

Anyway, the races can be developed in many different ways. Take the Alliance for example, you can either include or exclude the nightelves, which can add a very strong nature theme to the race and so new possibilities but in turn, the technologic side might be reduced. On the other hand it could allow the horde to expand in this direction using goblins.

Other example are the nightelves as their own faction. Combining them with draenei might clash with the night aspect, but allow new options. On the other hand, combining the worgen into this group would allow you to embrace the night theme even more and focus mechanics around that.

In the end, you don't need to force everything into the playable factions. One feature in my own brainstorming sessions that I enjoy quite a lot is the advanced use of mercenary camps. You can base whole Merc Camps based around neutral factions from WoW like the Argent Crusade or even races you didn't utilize in the playable races.

For example, I have a problem with including Draenei with the Alliance as they don't fit into their "industrial medieval" theme while they clash with the nightelven "nocturnal" theme. But turning them into their own merc camp allows me to embrace their theme and use it fully with a selection of units.

At the same time, I might not utilize bloodelves as part of the playable factions as I dont want to force them into an undead techtree and at the same time they distract a bit from the nightelves. But using the mentioned themed merc camps allows me to circumvent those design problems and still include the bloodelves.
The Draenei don't have to clash with the "nocturnal" theme of the night elves, as seen in Shadowmoon valley. A place shrouded in night that the Draenei called their own. Why can't they complement each others? The Draenic crystal technology would give the night elves a much needed technological push forward to compete with the industry of the Horde and the Alliance.

Imo the theme of a Draenei and Night Elf alliance would be seniority. They both consider themselves elder races.
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Old 02-03-2017, 03:53 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I absolutely loathe the Merc Camp suggestion
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Old 02-04-2017, 10:44 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by handclaw View Post
Well, the final techtrees would also depend on how the story goes forward as well design goals of the gameplay. Other lore friendly options can be covered by commanders/campaign.

(as for the Age of Mythology solution: while interesting, it somehow doesn't feel like it belongs into a warcraft RTS to me, but that's just my personal opinion)

Anyway, the races can be developed in many different ways. Take the Alliance for example, you can either include or exclude the nightelves, which can add a very strong nature theme to the race and so new possibilities but in turn, the technologic side might be reduced. On the other hand it could allow the horde to expand in this direction using goblins.

Other example are the nightelves as their own faction. Combining them with draenei might clash with the night aspect, but allow new options. On the other hand, combining the worgen into this group would allow you to embrace the night theme even more and focus mechanics around that.

In the end, you don't need to force everything into the playable factions. One feature in my own brainstorming sessions that I enjoy quite a lot is the advanced use of mercenary camps. You can base whole Merc Camps based around neutral factions from WoW like the Argent Crusade or even races you didn't utilize in the playable races.

For example, I have a problem with including Draenei with the Alliance as they don't fit into their "industrial medieval" theme while they clash with the nightelven "nocturnal" theme. But turning them into their own merc camp allows me to embrace their theme and use it fully with a selection of units.

At the same time, I might not utilize bloodelves as part of the playable factions as I dont want to force them into an undead techtree and at the same time they distract a bit from the nightelves. But using the mentioned themed merc camps allows me to circumvent those design problems and still include the bloodelves.
From a design perspective having merc camps for "minor league" races is a pretty elegant solution, since you're just dropping one building with a particular racial theme and then having that race's units pop out of there.

On the one hand, it constricts the need to build an entire playable faction out of a race that maybe doesn't fill one out on it's own (like say the pandaren), but that's something that people are going to be okay/not okay with on an individual basis.

From an implementation standpoint, having "modules" that contain the merc camp buildings and units for a particular race would fit in well with a DLC-based model (a la SC2 commanders), or maybe just incrementally adding in those merc camp options in post-release patches.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:06 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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It doesn't necessarily restrict them to a single building.

WC3 had Goblin Docks, Laboratories, Observatories, and Markets, they didn't all make units mind you but there was some variety there, and with the Naga-semi-campaign faction in TFT there was a decent number of units without being a 'full' faction.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:09 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
It doesn't necessarily restrict them to a single building.

WC3 had Goblin Docks, Laboratories, Observatories, and Markets, they didn't all make units mind you but there was some variety there, and with the Naga-semi-campaign faction in TFT there was a decent number of units without being a 'full' faction.
True, but that gets into a question of whether the goblins and naga were intended to be full factions at some point, and assets were partly built for them with that in mind, and then it turned out later that building campaigns for them wasn't feasible, but they just used the assets where they could?

I guess what I'm saying is that the end product doesn't necessarily tell us the design intent.
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Old 02-04-2017, 11:19 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
True, but that gets into a question of whether the goblins and naga were intended to be full factions at some point, and assets were partly built for them with that in mind, and then it turned out later that building campaigns for them wasn't feasible, but they just used the assets where they could?

I guess what I'm saying is that the end product doesn't necessarily tell us the design intent.
True, but nor does it limit what we imagine going forward.

I figure The mercs start with a building and then can build other buildings in a radius around it if they don't get a 'builder'. Or if they do get a builder it can also double as a baseline or specialized combat unit.
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Old 02-05-2017, 05:38 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I love this thread, gets my seal of approval.

As far as what I'd want to see in regards to race/faction make-ups in a hypothetical RTS game scenario it's no secret that I'd want Worgen to be part of the Alliance faction. I would also like to see Furbolg expanded on as a much more worthwhile unit and become part of the Night Elf faction, maybe even have their own hero unit. (Ursa Totemic?)

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
Reminds me of C&C Generals: Zero Hour.

However, I think the best way to go at it would actually be the Age of Mythology style, with each major commander/major god having a different combination of lesser commanders/lesser gods, with certain lesser commanders being unique to one single major god (say like Hel was unique to Loki in Age of Mythology).

For example, it could go like this. Say we have the Grand Alliance, and they have these three major commanders; High General Turalyon, King Genn Greymane, High Thane Muradin Bronzebeard.

Now say you take Turalyon, who has eight lesser commanders in his roster, and the four you take is Alleria, Kurdran, Khadgar and Danath. This way, you could easily recreate the old school Warcraft II Alliance, with high elven rangers, gryphon riders, mounted paladins and so on. However, if you were to take for example Velen, some naaru, Vindicator Boros and say Alleria, you could create some sort of Army of the Light-esque roster.

Simply put, this way, you could highly customize the factions to your liking. You could customize the night elven faction so it is reminiscent of the old Kaldorei Empire (selecting a combination of elunite and highborne commanders) or so that it is purely a force of nature (selecting a combination of druid and Wild God commanders).
This idea is also really good.

Would be a great way to expand on the military of certain races and maybe brainstorm some new characters as lesser commanders.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:40 PM
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So, some notes from me:

For the undead faction I see a mix of elements from the Forsaken with the Knights of the Ebon Blade as to change some things up, I'd do away of some Scourge Elements. Here are some quick notes, but I'll keep thinking further about this.

Heroes:

Ebon Knight - Next generation of Deathknights, has a baseline ability to raise ghouls, is able to sacrifice undead to heal himself but also to deal AOE damage
Dark Ranger - Elite of the Forsaken, could include some elements from HotS by being able to disable buidlings
Lich - Despite being a typical Scourge hero, I can see them being included with both, Forsaken and the Knights of the Ebon blade.
Abomination - I still enjoy the idea of Abominations being a hero for the Undead instead of a mere unit. It's also a great fit as a tanky hero.

Units

"Spiderwalker" - An idea that I came once across somewhere that I do actually enjoy. Basically, Forsaken experimenting by combining Forsaken Bodies with Spiders as a replacement of the Crypt Fiend. Could have some potential.

Gravecaller - After being unable to gain more Val'kyr from Helya, Sylvanas focused her efforts to create a replacement for these beings.
The results is the Gravecaller, an elven banshee resembling the angel-like beings of the Vrykul. (I do think the val'kyr as a unit would be a great flying spellcaster for the undead. But I wanted to get away from their nordic theme to integrate them better into the undead faction.


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The Draenei don't have to clash with the "nocturnal" theme of the night elves, as seen in Shadowmoon valley. A place shrouded in night that the Draenei called their own. Why can't they complement each others? The Draenic crystal technology would give the night elves a much needed technological push forward to compete with the industry of the Horde and the Alliance.

Imo the theme of a Draenei and Night Elf alliance would be seniority. They both consider themselves elder races.
Meh, the big theme of Draenei is the Holy Light. On that basis alone it's easier for me to see Draenei combined with the Alliance (even if Elune ends up being a naruu... ). As for giving their technology to the nightelves: That can easily end up with shifting the "Nightelf Faction" too far away from its roots and replace it with a Draenei faction with some nightelf elements.

I'm not saying it cannot be done, but in my preference I would go a different direction. Nature is the core element to the Nightelven faction in Warcraft, and it's the one I'd embrace and expand on. Heck, I'd rather have a seperate Draenei faction than seeing them with the Nightelves. But as mentioned, that's my own vision/preference.
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:04 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I feel like this gets at what makes a new Warcraft RTS so difficult to craft: there's an urge to just recreate past iterations of the RTS factions (WC2 Alliance/Horde, WC3 factions), but there's also an urge to try and create new stuff, or iterate on the hero unit Role-playing Strategy that differentiated WC3 from WC2/2X.

It's difficult to try and encapsulate all that within a single concept of WC4, and I think that's where we always end up splintering, because some people want particular classic factions, some people want new factions based on material in WoW, some people want naval/don't want naval... I don't think there's a focused idea of what kinda game it even ought to be.
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