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  #26  
Old 12-02-2010, 03:58 PM
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http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/dai...109.guest.html

From the article:

Quote:
The vast majority of all these people getting bailouts are wealthy, filthy-rich Democrats.
For the record, I oppose any wealthy, filthy-rich Republicans getting bailout money, too.

This crap needs to stop.
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  #27  
Old 12-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Or what let the economy collapse?
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Old 12-02-2010, 04:28 PM
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Or what let the economy collapse?
Did you read the article?

Most of the recipients of these bailouts didn't need the money in the first place.

Corporations across the board are reporting record profits, yet unemployment remains historically high. These scumbags have cashed in on free money or extremely low-interest government loans, laid off thousands, and gotten filthy rich.

The companies that didn't get a handout are essentially playing with a handicap. So, basically, if you didn't get in bed with Obama, you're fighting an uphill battle. Worse, now Obama's government has an unprecedented amount of influence on the boards of many of the world's largest and most influential corporations. As Limbaugh states, it's basically socialism, and teetering dangerously close to fascism.
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:08 AM
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Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't socialism, at least in theory, about providing for the people?


This is just run of the mill corporatism. We've had this in our past before. And you know how we got rid of it?

This man. The great grandpappy of Progressive thought, the "real" Pappa Bear.
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2010, 07:28 AM
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The companies that didn't get a handout are essentially playing with a handicap. So, basically, if you didn't get in bed with Obama, you're fighting an uphill battle. Worse, now Obama's government has an unprecedented amount of influence on the boards of many of the world's largest and most influential corporations. As Limbaugh states, it's basically socialism, and teetering dangerously close to fascism.
Omacron is right here Bolvar what Obama does is far from socialism. Even from what you interpret as socialism.
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  #31  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:23 PM
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I swear to god, there is a huge undercurrent of scary going on in this country right now. Unemployment is at 9.8% (and that is likley closer to 17%). And everyday I see stuff like this:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem..._l.php?ref=fpb

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._12/026874.php

There is some serious tribalism being fostered by the right-wing in this country. The two things referenced in those articles (property owners only voting and states rights) are clear dog whistles to people who think poor black people are stealing all their money because a African-Amerian President is in office (well they have always thought it, but now the fear is manifest). If Obama doesn't grow a spine and stand up to this bullshit, I am starting to think that a President Palin is more and more of a possibility, and that is a terrifying thought.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jjstraka View Post
I swear to god, there is a huge undercurrent of scary going on in this country right now. Unemployment is at 9.8% (and that is likley closer to 17%). And everyday I see stuff like this:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem..._l.php?ref=fpb

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._12/026874.php

There is some serious tribalism being fostered by the right-wing in this country. The two things referenced in those articles (property owners only voting and states rights) are clear dog whistles to people who think poor black people are stealing all their money because a African-Amerian President is in office (well they have always thought it, but now the fear is manifest). If Obama doesn't grow a spine and stand up to this bullshit, I am starting to think that a President Palin is more and more of a possibility, and that is a terrifying thought.
Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:41 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.
Yes and cutting cash from the poor and give it to the rich is going to increase the middle class
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Doesn't say a damned thing about black people in those articles.

I'm not suggesting I support the notion of voting rights only for property owners... but where do they say blacks cannot own property?

This isn't about racism - it's about the middle class shrinking exponentially by the minute, and they're getting a little freaked out about it. Can you blame them?

I can see why you wouldn't give a damn if you're filthy rich, or dirt poor, and plan to stay that way, but instead of screaming OMG RACISM! at every turn, look at the root cause, and what the real concern is.
They are dog whistles. Property-only voting was used in the Jim Crow South to keep blacks from voting after the Civil War. That's it's history. The people who kinda favor that (even in the back of their head) is who that Tea Party guy is talking to. As for the States being able to overturn ANY federal law, that is just madness waiting to happen. My favorite politician is actually fictional (lol, yes I know pathetic) but this is a fantastic clip from one of the best TV dramas ever produced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqzPu5pX6U

Part about the State and Federal governements starts at about 2:00. Brilliant.
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  #35  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
Yes and cutting cash from the poor and give it to the rich is going to increase the middle class
Who said I was in support of that?

I want tax cuts across the board.

This will benefit the poor. We shouldn't have to "give" them anything. An affluent middle class = more small business = more jobs. These are facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjstraka View Post
They are dog whistles. Property-only voting was used in the Jim Crow South to keep blacks from voting after the Civil War. That's it's history. The people who kinda favor that (even in the back of their head) is who that Tea Party guy is talking to. As for the States being able to overturn ANY federal law, that is just madness waiting to happen. My favorite politician is actually fictional (lol, yes I know pathetic) but this is a fantastic clip from one of the best TV dramas ever produced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqzPu5pX6U

Part about the State and Federal governements starts at about 2:00. Brilliant.
Why would state sovereignty be "madness"?

We're not talking about enabling the states to do anything unconstitutional.

Besides, most federal laws come with hooks in them to make them attractive to states, namely, federal funding that vanishes if you don't comply.
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  #36  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:52 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Who said I was in support of that?

I want tax cuts across the board.

This will benefit the poor. We shouldn't have to "give" them anything. An affluent middle class = more small business = more jobs. These are facts.
Do the rich really need tax cuts?
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  #37  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:57 PM
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Do the rich really need tax cuts?
I believe in equality.

Just because you've earned more doesn't mean you should pay at a higher rate.

We already give substantial tax breaks to the poor (most that are truly classified as poor don't pay any income tax).

Overtaxing the rich only encourages them to take their money elsewhere. Since they're rich, they can afford to do that. I'd rather they keep more of their money, and have more to spend back into the economy. Even if all they do is buy stocks and bonds with it, that's good for the economy.
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  #38  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post

Why would state sovereignty be "madness"?
In a way it's already like this. You couldn't pay me to live in a rural community in Alabama or Missisippi, just as I'm sure you wouldn't feel great about living in San Francisco or, say Seattle. We alrady have tons of disparity in the way certain sections of the country are governed. States have plenty of say as it is right now. If someone was a die-hard, bleed red, white and blue conservative living in South Carolina or Oklahoma, I can't imagine what the hell they would have to feel disenchanted about.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:03 PM
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In a way it's already like this. You couldn't pay me to live in a rural community in Alabama or Missisippi, just as I'm sure you wouldn't feel great about living in San Francisco or, say Seattle. We alrady have tons of disparity in the way certain sections of the country are governed. States have plenty of say as it is right now. If someone was a die-hard, bleed red, white and blue conservative living in South Carolina or Oklahoma, I can't imagine what the hell they would have to feel disenchanted about.
Well, for starters, they could reject Obamacare. You know, since most small businesses can't get one of the coveted waivers the administration is passing out to their favorite donors.

I live in Arizona, and while I'm generally content with my local political scene, I'd be happy to have the federal government keep its nose out of our business when it comes to issues like SB1070.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
I believe in equality.

Just because you've earned more doesn't mean you should pay at a higher rate.

We already give substantial tax breaks to the poor (most that are truly classified as poor don't pay any income tax).

Overtaxing the rich only encourages them to take their money elsewhere. Since they're rich, they can afford to do that. I'd rather they keep more of their money, and have more to spend back into the economy. Even if all they do is buy stocks and bonds with it, that's good for the economy.
Yes, and the poor also pay a higher percentage of their income in payroll and sales taxes, which is why a national sales or flat tax would be a disaster for them. And then they wouldn't be spending the already meager amounts they do. It's funny every time a idea for a payroll tax holiday has come up in this recession that it has been dismissed out of hand.

The rich are taking their money elsewhere anyway. There is a fine line between being rich and becoming a unholy, greedy bastard, and the upper class in this country is trending toward the later.

At any rate, Obama is going to cave to the Republicans on extending this crap anyway, so it's MY side that has something to complain about. You should be patting him on the back right now.

Quote:
I live in Arizona, and while I'm generally content with my local political scene, I'd be happy to have the federal government keep its nose out of our business when it comes to issues like SB1070.
I particularly love the recent law that is a acutal death panel. The one that has cut the funding for TRANSPLANTS from the state version of Medicaid, which essentialy means if you can't afford it (even if you've been on a waiting list) you die. It's a points like this where I say freedom can go fly a kite.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/us...nt.html?src=me
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  #41  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:16 PM
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Yes, and the poor also pay a higher percentage of their income in payroll and sales taxes, which is why a national sales or flat tax would be a disaster for them. And then they wouldn't be spending the already meager amounts they do. It's funny every time a idea for a payroll tax holiday has come up in this recession that it has been dismissed out of hand.

The rich are taking their money elsewhere anyway. There is a fine line between being rich and becoming a unholy, greedy bastard, and the upper class in this country is trending toward the later.

At any rate, Obama is going to cave to the Republicans on extending this crap anyway, so it's MY side that has something to complain about. You should be patting him on the back right now.
We can go back and forth on this all day. The rich don't give a shit about sales tax, or find loopholes to buy duty-free on big ticket items (even that absurdly rich democrat asswipe John Kerry is dodging the tax on his yacht...).

The poor pay the same sales tax as everyone else, but you can argue that it's "more" to them because they have less to spend. Ok... that's not an absolute truth... but the poor also do not pay income or property taxes, and foods are not taxed.

Alas, the middle class pays taxes on everything. Sales tax, income tax, property tax... and they cannot afford offshore or out-of-state tax shelters, nor do they employ crafty accountants to find them better ways to beat the IRS. They usually prepare their own taxes or have a fellow middle-classman prepare them.

I actually rejected a $5,000 a year raise once, because I didn't want to move into the higher tax bracket. I would have lost money. I had to wait until I was worth about $12,000 more a year to take a better job. That kind of shit is absurd.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:32 PM
Orifiel Whitedeer Orifiel Whitedeer is offline

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Why would state sovereignty be "madness"?
Two words: New Jersey

Seriously though, my mother words for the state o NJ and let me tell you there is something rotten in that state and it ain't just Trenton.

Plus I work for the fed so I'm kinda sorta pro fed government if I want to pay my ridiculous rent and eat.
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:33 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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I believe in equality.
But that's not equality, equality would be if they ended with the same amount of cash which they don't, or the price of everything changed so it would cost the exact same percentage for everyone
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Old 12-04-2010, 01:05 AM
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Two words: New Jersey

Seriously though, my mother words for the state o NJ and let me tell you there is something rotten in that state and it ain't just Trenton.

Plus I work for the fed so I'm kinda sorta pro fed government if I want to pay my ridiculous rent and eat.
Bah. You're smart enough to make a living outside of government.

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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
But that's not equality, equality would be if they ended with the same amount of cash which they don't, or the price of everything changed so it would cost the exact same percentage for everyone
You and I have different perspectives on equality then.

I don't believe in punishing the wealthy for being successful. They already pay a hell of a lot more tax than the average Joe. The constant finger-pointing and saying "make the rich pay" is just cheap scapegoating.

Also, the super-rich assholes that say they SHOULD be taxed more are full of shit. And if they really believed that, there's no law saying they can't write a big fat check to the IRS any time they feel like they haven't done their civic duty.

Fact is, fuckers that say this are some of the biggest abusers of tax loopholes on the planet. What they really mean is "Make the people that are rich, but not nearly as rich as me, pay more taxes. I'll keep my assets offshore anyway."
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:29 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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You and I have different perspectives on equality then.

I don't believe in punishing the wealthy for being successful. They already pay a hell of a lot more tax than the average Joe. The constant finger-pointing and saying "make the rich pay" is just cheap scapegoating.

Also, the super-rich assholes that say they SHOULD be taxed more are full of shit. And if they really believed that, there's no law saying they can't write a big fat check to the IRS any time they feel like they haven't done their civic duty.

Fact is, fuckers that say this are some of the biggest abusers of tax loopholes on the planet. What they really mean is "Make the people that are rich, but not nearly as rich as me, pay more taxes. I'll keep my assets offshore anyway."
What they have after paying the taxes is still a huge amount, also equality would be everyone having the same amount of money, also i don't find being born rich as being successful maybe lucky but not successfully

EDIT:also someone gave this answer to a similar complaint of yours

Quote:
Maybe they want ALL the rich to take on their fair share? And not just them and the others like them who are willing to pay?

Last edited by Ashendant; 12-04-2010 at 05:59 AM..
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2010, 10:58 PM
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What they have after paying the taxes is still a huge amount, also equality would be everyone having the same amount of money, also i don't find being born rich as being successful maybe lucky but not successfully

EDIT:also someone gave this answer to a similar complaint of yours
Yeah, I'm sure if you were filthy rich, you'd be fine if the government decided you couldn't give your money to your kids.
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  #47  
Old 12-06-2010, 11:08 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...029036,00.html

Person of the year 2010
I gave 100 rating to Assange, stephen colbert and jon stewart and lady gaga and Liu
Gave a 0 rating to Glenn beck for obvious reasons, and to turkish minister just to spite them , and sarah palin and obama for ordering assasination

does anybody know any more tea party or conservatives that advocate assasination?

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  #48  
Old 12-06-2010, 01:25 PM
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does anybody know any more tea party or conservatives that advocate assasination?
Ummmm......let's see here. We have the former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich, Republican Presidential-hopeful Mike Huckabee, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has called him a terrorist, and you can throw in every right-wing talk show host and pundit in the country as well. The new spin on the story from them of course is that this is Obama's fault and that we should inititate cyber-warfare on Wikileaks, and of course, take Assange out by any means nescessary. At heart, these people are cowards, as they are scared of EVERYTHING, or at least want their followers to be.
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  #49  
Old 12-06-2010, 01:37 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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http://www.time.com/time/specials/pa...029036,00.html

Person of the year 2010
I gave 100 rating to Assange, stephen colbert and jon stewart and lady gaga and Liu
Gave a 0 rating to Glenn beck for obvious reasons, and to turkish minister just to spite them , and sarah palin and obama for ordering assasination

does anybody know any more tea party or conservatives that advocate assasination?
If I may ask, why exactly did you give Lady Gaga a 100 rating?
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  #50  
Old 12-06-2010, 01:49 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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If I may ask, why exactly did you give Lady Gaga a 100 rating?
Because i didn't want to think of the ratings in between, so i just choose that if i liked 100 rating if i hated 0

I forgot to say they need to be on the list
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