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  #1  
Old 11-21-2006, 05:09 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Default Why WoWWiki is the devil.

If ever I saw a reason to flame WoWWiki, this would be it. Of all the things to not delete....

http://www.wowwiki.com/Celestial

http://www.wowwiki.com/Hope

Discuss.
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2006, 05:49 PM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Quote:
Celestials use swords of Holy Light. DUR DUR
Awesome, awesome articles.
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  #3  
Old 11-21-2006, 05:59 PM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Quote:
If Celestial worship existed in Stormwind before the First War, it could be a way of reconciling this apparent retcon.
lol..

WoWWiki throws around the word retcon way too much. I swear to god. A change from "Red Ridge" to "Redridge" is not a fucking retcon. "StormWind" to "Stormwind" is not a damn retcon.
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:22 PM
Vonhahn Vonhahn is offline

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Ugg. Back when they made warcraft 1, they dident have all the warcraft universe figured out, or how the worship of the light worked. Its not like thats a reticon, its just the warcraft universe becoming more developed.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:13 AM
Tularis Tularis is offline

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I know I am going to get flamed for this, but WoWwiki isn't really all that bad a place. If you know the lore of Warcraft then you know what is crap and what isn't, and getting past that the site is actually incredibly informative, not just on stuff in WoW but also lore itself. If you want to know information about Deathwing quickly and don't have access to any books, WoWwiki is a great source; just so long as you already know what is right and what is wrong.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:16 AM
Smeedle Smeedle is offline

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You should have named this thread "Why Baggins is an idiot". Seriously a lot of the problems the people on this forum have with WoWWiki are solely the fault of Baggins. Both of the pages you mention, Kenzuki, were created by him. Also the often used example of the Leprechaun-article on WoWWiki does only exist because of Baggins' stupid obsession with appendix III of the old Manual of Monsters. He's also responsible for throwing around the words "retcon" or "flavor lore" around way too much and using them as an excuse to put all sorts of stupid information in the wiki.
Basically just do the following when looking at articles on WoWWiki: If you find the username Baggins in the history of a page then it's best to either ignore the page completely or take the information on it with a huge grain of salt. If you do that you will mostly be fine (although there are of course still a lot of mistakes on WoWWiki, but it's really not as bad as some people on ScrollsofLore claim it to be).
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Old 11-22-2006, 07:01 AM
Ersinus Ersinus is offline

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I wonder how can they write these things, there is not single explanation by blizz about those angel like figures that apear on the paladin resurection spell.
Or they want to exhibit their creative skills, which sucks.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:10 AM
Warlock Warlock is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeedle
You should have named this thread "Why Baggins is an idiot". Seriously a lot of the problems the people on this forum have with WoWWiki are solely the fault of Baggins. Both of the pages you mention, Kenzuki, were created by him. Also the often used example of the Leprechaun-article on WoWWiki does only exist because of Baggins' stupid obsession with appendix III of the old Manual of Monsters. He's also responsible for throwing around the words "retcon" or "flavor lore" around way too much and using them as an excuse to put all sorts of stupid information in the wiki.
Basically just do the following when looking at articles on WoWWiki: If you find the username Baggins in the history of a page then it's best to either ignore the page completely or take the information on it with a huge grain of salt. If you do that you will mostly be fine (although there are of course still a lot of mistakes on WoWWiki, but it's really not as bad as some people on ScrollsofLore claim it to be).
Heh, probably.. but therein lies the whole flaw with the system.

Besides, what about stuff like this?
http://www.wowwiki.com/Genn_Greymane

Not wrong, but god, that's all you can say about the guy? That just disappoints me every time I see it.

There's also quite a few Lunarfalls writeups just copy/pasted as articles, which while not always horrible, usually contain a lot of made-up materials and tend to have little stories for the most insignificant NPCs and random people with names (i.e. "there is a guy named Bob in this War 3 mission.. here's his story!")
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:30 AM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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Lunarfalls is pretty much always reliable, if not always relevant.

Wowwiki is an excellent source for anything other than lore. When I wanted to find out who the bosses were in the Molten Core, for instance, I searched it on Wowwiki and instantly found, among countless strategies that did not interest me in the slightest, pictures of the bosses and descriptions of their locations in the Core. For somebody who doesn't raid, this can be quite useful. For characters (such as most minor raid bosses) on whom we don't really have any lore, a picture is quite valuable.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2006, 12:15 PM
Creative Creative is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
Lunarfalls is pretty much always reliable, if not always relevant.
Isnt that the site than made up lore for every hero name from Warcraft?
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2006, 12:55 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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Check it out for yourself.

It's got info on people who you'll never need to know anything about, but it doesn't make things up.
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  #12  
Old 11-22-2006, 02:40 PM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Quote:
but it doesn't make things up.
Yes it does, it makes various assumptions that may or may not be true.

Not that it´s necessarily a bad thing, i personally like the page but it´s not 100% accurate.
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  #13  
Old 11-22-2006, 05:52 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Lunarfalls does make up things, here let me show you.

Aggronor

Aggronor the Mighty was a Thane of Khaz Modan who survived the demonic invasion of Lordaeron, and sailed west with Jaina. With Greymane either dead or missing, Aggronor was chosen to command what remained of the Gilneas Brigade. Jaina, sensing a strange power coming from Stonetalon Peak, ordered them to build a settlement at its base.

Aggronor and the four other commanders built settlements there, and soon, to their surprise, they came under the attack of Grom Hellscream and the Warsong Clan. They went to retaliate, but attacked Thrall's base by mistake. To keep them at bay, Thrall was forced to defeat Aggronor and destroy his base.



Ai

Ai was one of the few high elves who remained in Lordaeron after Quel'Thalas rescinded from the Alliance. She took up residence in the town of Andorhal, and survived the initial destruction the Plague brought their town.

Ai was horrified when Terenas was reported killed by his own son, the once-beloved Prince Arthas, but even more so when she saw him returning to Andorhal, with an undead army at her back. Immediately, she and her neighbours rushed indoors. Ai's fate afterward is uncertain, but few survived the wrath of Prince Arthas.



Algammon

The ancient and terrible Algammon came to some renown within the ranks of the Nathrezim, and demonstrated unwavering loyalty to the Burning Legion in the past. As such, Kil’jaeden trusted him enough to send him to Azeroth with the charge of ensuring that Ner’zhul, the new and eerily eager Lich King, did what it was intended to do – destroy any who might oppose the Legion when it arrived in full. In some cases, Algammon was forced to put himself at the head of a Scourge force, though his true pleasure came from machination and manipulation, and he delighted in discord and the sorrow of his enemies.


Now while these are all very interesting to read, I don't know where they got this information from.
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  #14  
Old 11-23-2006, 06:40 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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Aggronor is the name of the Mountain King you fight during the third mission of the orc campaign. His troops are grey, and they are called "the Gilneas Brigade."

Ai is a high elven woman who runs into her house when your units approach in the second level of the undead campaign.

And Algammon is one of the random names for a multiplayer Dreadlord.

That's what Warcraft III tells about these three characters. Lunarfalls doesn't really say anything different, it just puts it in a form that's somewhat more interesting to read.
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  #15  
Old 11-24-2006, 07:15 AM
Creative Creative is offline

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Some more bizarre things...

Adric:
Adric was a human who died from the Plague, and rose to join the Forsaken. While scouting the woods by a human village, he came upon Garrick, his childhood friend who had come to cure him of his ailment. Garrick told Adric to go with him that he might be cured. Adric instead shot Garrick, and explained that he had never wanted to be cured. He then sat down, and waited for Garrick to join him.

...?


Anubris:
Among the favoured sons of Cenarius, Anubris assisted the Sentinels throughout the Long Vigil, using his vast power over nature to aid the night elves and bring great ruin to their enemies.

The Vigil was ended suddenly when the orcs, led by Grom Hellscream at the behest of Mannoroth, tore into Ashenvale and murdered Cenarius himself. Along with his brothers and sisters, Anubris was saddened and angered, and galloped into the battlefield to wreak great vengeance upon the demons who masterminded the death of his benevolent father.

Azsune
Azsune, the night elf princess, long ago mocked the wisdom of the Oracle. As punishment for her insolence, she was transformed into a statue of living stone, guarding the passage to the Oracle's dwelling place.

When Thrall happened upon the statue, the voice of Azsune spoke in his mind, and she told him that she would not rest until her heart was returned to her.

Thrall found the heart in the possession of a dragon. The dragon was killed by harpies, and Thrall retrieved the heart and gave it to Azsune. With this act, he ended the curse, allowing her spirit rest, and also gained access to the Oracle.

The essence of Azsune's heart had come, through unknown means, into the hands of the Kirin Tor of Dalaran. They locked it away in the dungeons beneath the city, where it was eventually found by Vashj.


How come I never heard crap about any of them? :/

Except Azsune, that seemed to be a hell of lot more than just some statue :X
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  #16  
Old 11-24-2006, 09:41 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Ai is just a blonde villager female that you can kill in one mission, yet there are paragraphs of info on her. Nothing even indicates she is a High Elf, let alone all that biography etc.
I agree with the majority on this one.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:31 AM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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I've never heard of Adric either. But it says his debut was in Lands of Conflict. That means that this anecdote was probably mentioned in LoC. Personally, I'm not acquainted with the RPG books, so I can't say more on the subject

Anubris is a random hero name for a Keeper of the Grove. If you look up Centrius, for instance, you should find the exact same bio. That's because the bio doesn't actually say anything other than the fact that he's a Son of Cenarius. Lunarfalls simply assumes that all the multiplayer heroes of Warcraft III exist in the lore, that even if they don't do anything significant in the Third War, they were present. I think this is a fair assumption to make, because there are now several instances of characters who first appear as random multiplayer heroes, and later are given some specific role (Araj the Summoner, Ras Frostwhisper, Banehollow, Morg Wolfsong, etc).

I will admit that, yes, the Aszune passage does invent something, namely one line of backstory about how she got to be a statue. But most of the story is taken directly from what happened in Warcraft III. The second and third paragraphs describe what happened in the seventh mission of the orc campaign. The "Essence of Aszune" is an item Kael'Thas and Vashj can find in the "Dungeons of Dalaran" mission if you kill an enormous Arcanite Golem. So that wasn't made up either.

Regarding Ai: She uses the high elf (female) model, whereas the other women use the villager (female) model. She is the only one in the village to do so. If we assume (which I think is a reasonable thing to do) that she's a high elf, then the first line of the bio makes sense. The second sentence comes from the fact that a) you find her in Andorhal, and b) if she hadn't survived the initial attack, she would be dead already.

As for the second paragraph, Nephalim presumably deduced that she was terrified from the fact that she ran into her house, which, again, is a reasonable assumption to make. So really, nothing here is made up. It's just made to sound nice.

Yes, there are a few exceptions (the first sentence in the Aszune bio, for instance). But, as usual, I'm going to have to agree with the minority on this one.
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  #18  
Old 11-24-2006, 12:24 PM
Kenzuki Kenzuki is offline

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Check out the stuff on their Diablo section. Most of that is made up, I know for a fact.
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Old 11-24-2006, 02:42 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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I don't think it exists anymore. But I know what you're talking about. I think the Diablo section did make up little backstories for Super Unique Monsters.
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:04 AM
Smeedle Smeedle is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flamestrider
I've never heard of Adric either. But it says his debut was in Lands of Conflict. That means that this anecdote was probably mentioned in LoC.
Yup, you can find Adric's story in Lands of Conflict on pages 13-14. Lunarfalls just summarises the events of that story.
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  #21  
Old 11-25-2006, 09:48 AM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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I never mentioned Adric.

Most of that is all assumption still, even if they seem correct or reasonable. The model Ai uses is also used for High Elven civilians sure, but it still dosen't prove beyond reasonable doubt. Not like the model has pointy ears either...
It' just an example.

As for the stories for those random hero names, you can't just put them down like that. Somehow all of those Dreadlords were really trusted individuals etc?
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:44 AM
xlandhenry xlandhenry is offline

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Everything has its pros and cons, don't blame WOWWiki that much. It has many mistakes on lore, yet it did remind me something in case i forgot. And I hope the lore part of this site will soon be available for us as a ultimate replacement of wiki trash!!
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:07 PM
Flamestrider Flamestrider is offline

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The stuff on the dreadlords pretty much just says that they were respected enough to be sent to Azeroth to oversee the Scourge. Obviously, Kil'jaeden would not have sent the stupidest and clumsiest, or the least reliable of the Nathrezim. It's not really very much of a stretch at all.
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Old 11-25-2006, 11:58 PM
GodofUtopia GodofUtopia is offline

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makes me wonder when will the lores for this site be operational....
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:50 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodofUtopia
makes me wonder when will the lores for this site be operational....
That reminds me of the infamous

Are we there yet?
No!
Are we there yet?
No!
Are we there yet?
No!

that has to be put in each and every movie including 8-12 year old kids.
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