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-   -   Designing Draenor Diplomacy (http://forums.scrollsoflore.com/showthread.php?t=221271)

BaronGrackle 06-27-2017 09:40 PM

Designing Draenor Diplomacy
 
When we last left our heroes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle (Post 1594038)
So hey. Would anyone be interested in making a Diplomacy map for Draenor? Not with all the clans, but maybe 5 or 7?

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wow...raenor_Map.jpg
https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wow...0c9286e415dbbd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anansi (Post 1594087)
The answer is "yes."

Ask me if I will make such a Diplomacy map, and the answer magically turns into "Eeh."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marthen (Post 1594101)
Do I have to use Chronicle's Draenor, or can I use my own?

http://i.imgur.com/mU2jP66h.jpg

It's definitely close enough that it shouldn't matter which exact map you use. I will say that a Diplomacy map should be very simple... I'd take a shot at this myself, but I draw horribly, and last time I did this other people fired out superior maps.

I'd recommend focusing a map on geographic centers first, with clans filling in afterward. By which I mean that there are a lot of orcish clans but fewer regions (e.g. Nagrand, Arak, Tanaan).

We'd probably only need 5 players or 7 players - which could coincide with the seven mainland regions, right? If the players are based on regions, then the player clans could be more variable. For example... a player starting in Shadowmoon Valley would probably always be Shadowmoon Clan, but a player starting in Nagrand might be Warsong, Burning Blade, Redwalker, or Bladewind.

Anyway... what do you think? Marthen or anyone else, would you be up for crafting such a gameboard?

And if it gets made, could we round up 6 or 8 people for players and a moderator?


EDIT: Of course, a clan starting in Shadowmoon Valley MIGHT be Shadowmoon, but it might also be Stormreaver or Flowerpicker, bwa-ha-ha.

Mutterscrawl 06-27-2017 09:44 PM

I haven't played diplomacy before but this seems like a good way to learn, I'm in for building a proper shadowmoon clan

Arbourean 06-27-2017 10:29 PM

Diplomacy is a game I've always wanted to play.

Ethenil 06-27-2017 10:39 PM

I have no idea how to game works.

I've got a box with a physical game of it though, but I've always been intimidated by the size of the rule book.

Care to explain?

I think I'd pick Shadowmoon Clan too though. Failing that, Bleeding Hollow.

BaronGrackle 06-27-2017 10:43 PM

This links to a pdf of Diplomacy rules: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...CuxFkvQ61G_afQ

Here was the previous Alterac Crisis game: http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...d.php?t=215093

Here was the previous (early abandoned) War of the Three Hammers game: http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums/...d.php?t=215859


If we can get a map of this and people who want to play, we can certainly go through the rules in more detail. It's surprisingly easy to learn.

Marthen 06-27-2017 11:50 PM

Alright, I'll make the map (at least a proto-version) this evening.


Since we are focusing solely on the orc clans, I won't bother myself with figuring out a potential setup for the ogre city-states (Highmaul and Bladespire) or the Draenei. Although I would probably include the Shattered Hands, although they were formed very recently, they reside in the Arak, and without them, the region would end pretty empty.


Also dips on either the Shadowmoons or the Thunderlords.

BaronGrackle 06-28-2017 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marthen (Post 1594257)
Alright, I'll make the map (at least a proto-version) this evening.

LOK'TAR! But seriously, no rush. Very casual.

That's five of us thus far?

Quote:

Since we are focusing solely on the orc clans, I won't bother myself with figuring out a potential setup for the ogre city-states (Highmaul and Bladespire) or the Draenei.
Depending on where they are on the map, they might serve well as neutral supply centers for players to fight over.

EDIT: I assume we're looking at Rise of the Horde roleplaying here? If this timeline is accurate, we might have the first year as -10 (ten years before the Portal). That way we have a Shattered Hand Clan recently founded, the ogres' power broken at the Battle of Bladespire, the orcish race poised to ascend into dominance, and the very beginnings of fel magic touching the world - or never touching it.

Marthen 06-28-2017 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle (Post 1594259)
LOK'TAR! But seriously, no rush. Very casual.

That's five of us thus far?



Depending on where they are on the map, they might serve well as neutral supply centers for players to fight over.

EDIT: I assume we're looking at Rise of the Horde roleplaying here? If this timeline is accurate, we might have the first year as -10 (ten years before the Portal). That way we have a Shattered Hand Clan recently founded.


-11 is the year I'd go for. It's a year before Gul'dan starts his shenanigans, the Shattered Hands form at that time as well, Bladespire can still be standing.

As for those supply centers, these are the major non-orc locations I could think of;

http://i.imgur.com/AF3u9IO.png

Farahlon, Shattrath, Karabor, Auchindoun belong to the Draenei, Bladespire and Highmaul are ogre city-states, Skyreach is the capital of the non-cursed Arakkoa.

BaronGrackle 06-28-2017 01:11 AM

-11 it is. (As a fun bonus, Gul'dan hasn't destroyed his mystery clan yet. You guys can be Flowerpickers or Stormreavers if you choose!)

Those neutral centers look pretty spread out, which is awesomely ideal.

Marthen 06-30-2017 10:37 AM

Grackle, I have decided to take a break from this forum. Not sure when, or if, I will be returning. I will finish the mao as promised (soon), but as such, I will not be participating.

ijffdrie 06-30-2017 11:20 AM

That's a dang shame, Marthen.


As for the diplomacy, I obviously call Flowerpickers.

BaronGrackle 06-30-2017 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marthen (Post 1594818)
Grackle, I have decided to take a break from this forum. Not sure when, or if, I will be returning. I will finish the mao as promised (soon), but as such, I will not be participating.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but make the most of it. Enjoy life for a little while!

I don't consider you promise-bound to the map, if you'd rather start your reprieve sooner rather than later.

BaronGrackle 07-07-2017 02:19 PM

So, no Draenor map. Does anyone want to experiment with a 2-player Diplomacy game? Let me explain.

I'm in the process of making a two-player WWI variant, where you play as the two alliance systems (Entente Powers and Central Powers) instead of a single nation. You begin with one nation, but you set up secret triggers to make other nations join you. For example: maybe the Entente player sets a secret trigger so that if the Central player enters Belgium, then England joins the Ententes.

Two-player wouldn't have any actual diplomacy between players, so you'd lose that element. It'd probably also be faster.

Anyway... if a couple of people are interested, you could help me try out the regular Europe version, OR we could apply the same rules to Anansi's Three Hammers map of Khaz Modan. It'd be World War of the Three Hammers, or something.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...lomacy.svg.png

http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/...7.png~original

Any interest?

Ethenil 07-07-2017 04:15 PM

I'd like to play the Draenor one.

But what I'd really want is a Third War game.

BaronGrackle 07-07-2017 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethenil (Post 1596158)
I'd like to play the Draenor one.

But what I'd really want is a Third War game.

For Third War, you'd need a Kalimdor map and to have it start in the second half (Horde and Sentinel campaigns).

But the problem we had in the Alterac Crisis game was racism. I imagine all players would gang up on the Scourge out of lore principle.

Anansi 07-07-2017 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle (Post 1596181)
For Third War, you'd need a Kalimdor map and to have it start in the second half (Horde and Sentinel campaigns).

But the problem we had in the Alterac Crisis game was racism. I imagine all players would gang up on the Scourge out of lore principle.

I didn't have that problem. I was perfectly happy to screw over all the other factions, regardless of the color of their skin.

Maybe that's why I won. :P

BaronGrackle 07-07-2017 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anansi (Post 1596183)
I didn't have that problem. I was perfectly happy to screw over all the other factions, regardless of the color of their skin.

Maybe that's why I won. :P

Yeah, I think you were Dalaran. Check your Human Seven Kingdoms "Civilized Nation" privilege! :mage:

Ethenil 07-07-2017 08:11 PM

Let's do a Third War game, with EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and the islands in between!

BaronGrackle 07-07-2017 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethenil (Post 1596191)
Let's do a Third War game, with EK, Kalimdor, Northrend, and the islands in between!

That one's basically a world map.

Ethenil 07-07-2017 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle (Post 1596198)
That one's basically a world map.

Is that an issue?

BaronGrackle 07-08-2017 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethenil (Post 1596202)
Is that an issue?

Not if someone wants to make it! :D

EDIT: Though, having Khaz Modan and continental Azeroth on a Third War map is sorta like having South America on a WWI map.

BaronGrackle 07-14-2017 10:19 AM

Anonymous poll added, to gauge interest.

I might be throwing together an ugly map.

Marthen 07-20-2017 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaronGrackle (Post 1594837)
I'm sorry you feel that way, but make the most of it. Enjoy life for a little while!

I don't consider you promise-bound to the map, if you'd rather start your reprieve sooner rather than later.

Hah, not so much a reprieve, I've had some obligations to deal with, and seeing how's there little relevant discussion (for me) these days, I decided to take a break all together.

Going to have some free time the very next week. If you still want this, might take a look at it.

BaronGrackle 07-20-2017 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marthen (Post 1597754)
Hah, not so much a reprieve, I've had some obligations to deal with, and seeing how's there little relevant discussion (for me) these days, I decided to take a break all together.

Going to have some free time the very next week. If you still want this, might take a look at it.

My feelings wouldn't be hurt at ALL if you finished a version before I did. I'll tell you what point I'm at, and you can ignore it or be inspired by it as needed.

I was making my version for five players based on continental regions: Nagrand, Frostfire Ridge, Gorgrond, Tanaan Jungle, and Shadowmoon Valley. My concept was that players would RP as every clan in that region, or RP as the dominant clan with lesser clans supporting them.

The standard Diplomacy map of Europe is simple enough. It has the minor countries of Europe as neutral supply centers, and the player countries are usually three valuable supply centers mixed with three worthless regions (e.g. France has Paris, Brest, Marseilles as supply centers and Burgundy, Gascony, and Picardy as regions, and these form the country's borders). I was going to use your recommended neutral supply centers. Maybe with a few others.

Of course, there wouldn't be any rules about home centers. Players would be able to build in any center they controlled, which I feel represents the orcs' semi-nomadic culture.

Nobody was going to start with fleets, but I was trying to make lots of coastal supply centers and strategic sea spaces, so that players might consider building a fleet or two to shortcut between places on Frostfire and Nagrand, or Tanaan and Shadowmoon. That being said... if an island like Ashran was a center, I was probably going to give it some land connections to simulate that it could be reached by rylak windriders in a pinch.

Those Shadowmoon antics I had in the other thread? Well, I was toying with an idea... if each player started with three centers, it could be that each center was controlled by a different clan, and our players would control three clans each instead of a single-clan continent. My problem was that Shadowmoon Valley has only the Shadowmoon Clan... so I was wondering if they could have three different shaman societies instead.

But I was veering away from that and looking at transplanting some clans instead. This was what I was leaning toward:

Shadowmoon Valley
- Shadowmoon Clan (Shaz'gul)
- Nelghor-shomash Clan (Darktide Roost instead of their expected territory, with land connection to mainland)
- Bladewind Clan (somewhere on western border instead of their expected territory)

Nagrand
- Warsong Clan (Grommashar)
- Burning Blade Clan (Hallvalor)
- Shattered Hand Clan (settled somewhere before their Arak invasion, unless Bladefist Hold could be connected to Nagrand)

Frostfire Ridge
- Frostwolf Clan (Wor'gol)
- Thunderlord Clan (Grom'gar)
- Whiteclaw Clan (somewhere north)

Gorgrond
- Blackrock Clan (Blackrock Foundry - likely merged with Iron Docks)
- Laughing Skull Clan (Deadgrin)
- Lightning's Blade Clan (somewhere eastcoast)

Tanaan Jungle
- Bleeding Hollow Clan (Zeth'Gol)
- Bonechewer Clan (somewhere north, maybe "The Throne")
- Redwalker Clan (somewhere west instead of their expected territory - cannibalistic in the movieverse!)


But anyway, the three-tiny-clans-each thing might be too crazy. If it's just mono-clan continents instead, then (for example) Oshu'gun would likely be a Nagrand starting center.

I want Zeth'Kur to exist, possibly taking all of the Dark Portal territory.

---------

But anyway, that's where my mind was. If you decide to make a game map for us instead, feel free to ignore every single thing! :)

Marthen 07-20-2017 12:26 PM

Alright, using my retro-Draenor geography, as I do not feel like working with Blizzard's limited one, and your ideas, which seem pretty solid in any case, I've managed to scrap this concept together. It has some alterations to your idea, but the core is there I think.

Major regions;

http://i.imgur.com/gFo19yj.jpg

Clans;

http://i.imgur.com/wDOTisw.jpg

As you can see, there are five playable regions, each with three clans present, and several other neutral regions, each with one or more major neutral centres.

The five playable regions are;

Frostfire Ridge

- Frostwolf Clan (Wor'gol)
- Thunderlord Clan (Grom'gar)
- Whiteclaw Clan (Icewind Rock)

Tanaan Waters (might change that name)

- Laughing Skull Clan (Deadgrin)
- Bonechewer Clan (Broken Spine)
- Bleeding Hollow Clan (Zeth'Gor)

Gorgrond

- Blackrock Clan (The Rock)
- Dragonmaw (Beastmaw - Nelghor-shomash) Clan (Beastroost)
- Lighting's Blade Clan (The Rod)

Shadowmoon Expanse

- Shadowmoon Clan (Fortress Anguish - Fortress Shadowmoon)
- Flowerpicker Clan (The Blossom)
- Redwalker Clan (Bloodhaze)

Nagrand

- Warsong Clan (Grommashar)
- Burning Blade Clan (Hallvalor)
- Shattered Hand Clan (Bladefist Hold)

Neutral regions would include Farahlon, Talador, Arak, Ashran. I am also thinking of having the western ogre city-states (Highmaul, Bladespire) their independent neutral region.


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